If they wanted to make Edition Edition the standard they would have to make it in arcades and online capable of course. The question there in is would they develop older versions of the newer characters. A Vanilla Hakan, a Super Hugo, etc sort of how they did with Anniversary? That could be interesting, especially if Vanilla T-Hawk had less lag on a whiffed condor dive for example…
Didn’t say that, but it’s cool that you want to think I did. SMFH.
Here’s my rationale: if you have character loyalty like iPeru or Wolfkrone or Daigo or JWong or Mike Ross or PRRog or Mago or Tokido, then this can help you pick the best version of your character to try to make it the farthest with the best tools your character has ever or will ever have. If your character is just shit no matter what, then it’s all about what you can do to surpass those limitations you’re imposing on yourself. V.Sagat and AE.Fei/Yun are really, really good characters, definitely, but they can lose. They’re not Nightmare Geese. They’re not even 3S Chun (whose worst matchup was a single 4-6 against Yun). V.Sagat/Akuma was never a win button. AE.Fei was never a win button. AE12.Cammy was never a win button.
Again, I don’t see why this thing is so bad.
I feel like it’ll open the doors to many more match ups and variety…
But if its not available to everyone, its obviously not viable for competitive play
So out of 44 characters, how many would be viable like ones you could have a realistic chance of winning a tournament with, if Edition mode was the standard? You say shit characters, but not everyone plays Dan or Dhalsim or Hawk. Problem is a lot of decent characters would also not be able to compete in edition mode.
maybe 10ish
prepare for the 3s argument tho
Chun and Yunfest? Some Kens, Dudleys and Makotos? A scant Akuma here and there?
I don’t see how this is better than what we have currently.
I think more than just the very best characters of each version could compete.
i mean some would argue that a game doesnt need 30 viable top 8 characters to be fun. personally, i like it, but thats the direction the argument goes when you pose the question of how many characters would become viable in edition select
It doesn’t but the more the better, it’s always a good thing. It allows people to pick who they want rather than be forced to pick from a small group due to necessity.
Off the top of my head, viable characters would be:
Vanilla: Sagat, Akuma, Seth, Viper, Gief, Ryu, Honda, Rufus, Gen and Balrog.
Super: Guile, Cammy and Fei Long. Maybe characters like Bison, Rose, Chun and Sim could have a niche here and there.
AE: Yun, Yang, Sakura, maybe Fei Long.
And then you’d have pure counterpicks like Juri to deal with Sagat.
Overall, looks like around 12/14 characters could be really viable, then you get some other niche characters here and there that could add up to become around 20/21.
Sounds good enough for me, tbh.
Since niggas wanna bring up 3S being imbalanced: Tokido put Urien in top 8 at Evo three times. KSK put Alex in top 8 twice. Makoto is top three and has been in Evo’s top 8 once. Kuroda can win SBO with whoever he wants (usually plays Q) and has documented footage of him destroying JWong’s Chun with Q (who is bottom three). Y’all brought this shit up. I intentionally didn’t.
No one has to pick a high tier character to be viable. As I was just informed, iPeru got top 8 at SCR this weekend using Bottom 3 El Fruity. This in a version that has the “OMG SO BURK CAMMY”.
I’d rather use the CvS2 argument for why relegating this to one version is bad. C-Groove only. Go for it and tell me what that’s like. Basically, no matter what version you play, you will have your quantifiably better characters and your quantifiably shit characters. No amount of balancing will correct that. Every game has characters that you simple are better served not picking unless you’re on a mission to prove a point or just really like a character’s style/design/voice/tits/whatever.
i meant no harm. 3s is fine and good, imbalanced or not.
i was just pointing out that the argument usually goes down that road when the subject turns to number of viable characters. using 3s as an example of a good game with a strong following despite there being a low number of characters with a real chance at winning
the counter argument here is, 12/14 vs the at least 30 that youre looking at now. the number viable in ES is fine for you given you play one of the viable characters already. but what about the players that dont play one of the 12/14?
lets say that ES is a more fun, better game. is it enough of an improvement to throw away half the characters in a game that is already good?
Machorhombus: Yeah but it doesn’t have to be simply good enough, we can have the majority of the cast be viable instead. Lots of people play characters that you haven’t listed, so they would be forced to switch. I can understand why people who play those characters you mentioned would love it, but for everyone else it would be terrible. It’s fine for side tournaments and a for fun mode, ruining the game for many people not fine.
But then you have another problem, you have 30 characters but none of them fill their role as it should be, in AE 2012 there’s 2 pure grapplers, Hawk and Gief, and 1 semi mobile, Hakan, and one mobile grappler, Abel, Abel is the higher one in the tier list but he loses to pretty much all the relevant characters in tournaments, which makes none of the grapplers really viable in tournaments. Whereas Vanilla Gief would fill the niche of the grappler in All Editions Edition (AEE) and we’d have a really viable grappler to be used in competitive play.
I prefer having one really good grappler over 4 (soon to be 5) mediocre ones.
My first team in MvC2 was Guile/Iceman/Doom, I played a zoning/runaway gameplan where I wanted you to stand in some particular spots in the screen for me to call a sonic boom, call assist and then make you take some Guile pressure, shit was cash, but it couldn’t do work vs top teams. What did I do? I learned Team Scrub, now I could zone with Cable to my heart’s content and capitalize off every single mistake my opponent did by wrecking that character, I had Sentinel that could do even better pressure, could hit harder than Guile ever could, zone better, and also control the skies, and that was without having to call Doom assist, which let me pick another assist to do something different for both of my characters, so Commando gave me the option to get some breathing room whenever things didn’t go my way. I sometimes use my old team, and I like it, but I’m not going to get beaten up just because I like 3 sprites when I could be picking 3 much better sprites that let me do what I want to do either way.
Again, Hugo is supposedly looking awesome in Ultra. At least Zangief can compete currently, with your own numbers in ES the majority of characters wouldn’t even be able to do that.
Honestly, make it an official side tourney. Locally we would do 5 dollar random select tourneys at our local events for fun. Not everything you do at a tourney should be serious business type shit. Main tournament is USF4, once enough of those people are done you do the Edition Select tourney for the people that scrubbed out.
Everybody wins!
From browsing the Gief forum it sounds like Gief got hit hard with the nerf hammer in Ultra.
making it a side tournament means nobody takes it seriously and its just considered a joke.
Its just like the UMVCX at UFGT, might be fun to watch but nobody takes that as a serious competitive event.
Dude, MTG tournaments have a lot of side events. Some are serious, some are there just for fun. Nothing wrong with doing a tourney for the fun of it. Last big MTG tournament I went to they were firing 8 mans every half hour at various price levels depending on what people wanted to pay.
You have a bunch of people just sitting around? Fuck it, do a bunch of 8 single elim 8 mans for random shit. Seriously, not everything you do with a fighting game has to be the one main thing and that’s it. Hell, if they added the Team Battle that Tekken 3 had shit would be hype. No online play is a huge turn off but eh, they might have time to change their minds on it.
What about them?
If you picked T.Hawk, then it does not matter which version of SF4 or if it’s all of them. If you can’t overcome the tiers then you’re going to lose. Increasing the size of the roster doesn’t change anything.
SF4 has a lot of shit characters. Characters that wallow in mediocrity and only appear any good simply because lots of the characters next to them are also bad. The constant tier shuffling gets old but at least it’s made good versions of most characters. If you’re playing a character that has never been viable, and will not pick up a good one of the type you play (like the grappling example up above), then balance was never in the cards.
Besides that, I cannot imagine people playing a multi-edition game with just one character. The threat of counterpicks is too strong, and of course the incentive. I can easily imagine the meta-game coming up with cycles where, say, Ultra characters counter vortex characters, which in turn counter some of the high damage Vanilla characters, who complete the cycle of countering the Ultra characters.