That’s because nothing done in that video was all that ridiculous.
I don’t see how I could’ve done that… maybe it has something to do with you… I dunno, contradicting yourself?
In this argument, we add together both a definite and then a possibility. Which is it? He’s either GOING to always land those combos to make that “Tager health” as significant as that is, or he isn’t.
It’s a general staple that I hear a lot of blazblue players shitting their pants over 30% damage combos as if it’s big shit or something, you included. With that being said, those acting as if Ragna being able to do such combos is too cheap says bad things about the rest of the cast, if anything. You also didn’t do much to justify Arakune’s ability to do upwards of 90% of a character’s lifebar, if not 100% completely. I already told you what my gripe was, and that was I felt that they were trying to nerf Ragna back down to shitty damage levels while also not boosting his life gain. Believe it or not, I’ve watched many matches with Ragna and no, the piddly shit that he got back from doing combos didn’t make a difference. It only meant 5% - 7% of the opponent’s next combo was negated. End of story.
Uh, I think it’s that you seem pretty full of shit and knee-jerk reactionary towards decently damaging combos when Ragna’s involved.
Frankly, you can fuck off. No one’s forcing you to reply to me, and if I am so uninformed and getting on your nerves, you can easily just ignore me. I haven’t given you any shit over this, so I don’t expect you to do the same. Any venomous statements I made was clearly at another guy, as he can kiss my ass.
The video wasn’t supposed to be “ridiculous” people, it was supposed to refute the ridiculous claim that Ragna “doesn’t do enough damage” in CP. There’s clearly something wrong with your reading comprehension, since nowhere did I assert anything about that video being “ridiculous” or “crazy”, I just cited some very SOLID numbers from the combos in it. Nowhere am I arguing that Ragna does “ridiculous” damage (Though I’m amused that SBZ felt it necessary to qualify with “all that ridiculous” with the implication that portions of it were in fact at least somewhat ridiculous), because I think any idiot can see that’s false, but I also feel that any idiot should be able to tell his damage doesn’t suck either, and if they can’t, that video should help set them right.
No, you’re incorrect. If Ragna is landing combos, he has crazy health in your version of the game. It is assumed/a given that he will land combos, because this is a game about landing combos, and not about doing single hits. If Ragna is not, for some reason, landing combos, how much health he has is irrelevant because he is going to lose regardless because he’s either terrible or completely outplayed. Will he land single hits too? Yes, of course, but he’s not going to win a whole round like that no matter how much health you give him back. And even that is leaving out the fact that Ragna regains health on blocked drives as well unless the opponent uses Barrier, and 2D, 6D and j.D are all used in some way during his neutral/blockstrings. Not to ignore Dead Spike or Blood Scythe, both of which seem to be safe or better on block. And with barrier seemingly more at a premium in this game…
Nowhere here am I acting like 3k is “Sh*t your pants” levels of damage, to use your dubious term, but at the same time, 3k is PERFECTLY FINE for most characters to be doing off reasonable starters. That’s what most of the cast gets. Look at that Azriel combo video posted in the other thread. Whenever he breaks 3.5k, he’s spending meter, has weakpoints, uses an improbable starter or uses overdrive and he’s supposed to be the HUUUUUGE DAMAAAAAAGE character. Hell, Hazama who everyone is busy regarding as OP right now only gets 3.5-4k midscreen with Jayoku. In fact, I think if you actually sat down and took notes on a few matches, you’d discover that actual AVERAGE combo damage is probably closer to 2k than 3k, particularly if you factor in failed hitconfirms. Which I note we’ll probably be seeing (ARE seeing, really) a lot more of CP due to the lower hitstop making hitconfirms harder across the board.
The point that you are so impressively evading is that Ragna’s damage is not bad, which pretty much invalidates your whole “Ragna’s damage sucks so bad, so they have to boost his life gain!” argument. And again, Ragna is gaining something like 1-1.5k health in a close match.
The reason you seem ignorant, because you are looking at it at a combo-by-combo basis, rather than the value of health gained over the course of a round. Yes, fine, whatever, it’s not a big deal when Ragna does a combo, and then his opponent does a combo, and the opponent’s combo essentially does 400 less damage. It IS a big deal when each character does three-four combos and now Ragna has enough health to be alive after the last one. Additionally, you don’t seem to understand that, believe it or not, not every combo from every character does 3k or more. Go watch some Azrael matches and watch how often he ends up doing 1800 or so. It’s a lot. Go watch any match and note how many times even good players don’t confirm hits into full combos. Pretty much anytime Ragna has a “one chance” low health moment, he has his drive to thank for it. Example here.. He wins the round and as a result, the match. And throughout that video, there are several times when Ragna’s drive gave him one last chance. The fact that he didn’t capitalize isn’t the fault of the character.
I’m not “justifying” Arakune’s damage because A) We’re not talking about Arakune, and B) I agree that he’s stupid and you’ll observe that they’ve taken steps to make him much less stupid in CP. (My understanding is that using bugs now drains the curse gauge, so if he uses a lot of them in pressure before he hits you, he gets very little damage out of it.)
If you are tired of people talking down to you on this topic, you should try making less ill-informed statements. We’re pretty nice around here (Except for Huggy Bear, he’s angry all the time. ) but when people come in here with silly claims backed up by nothing and treat them like fact, then start throwing vitriol around, eventually, patience wears thin. And frankly, sympathy for Ragna players is probably at an all time low around here right now.
If Ragna has one problem right now, it’s that most of the players I see playing him right now SUCK. They’re not losing because of their character. They’re losing because they drop tons of combos, they do crappy old CS:EX combos, and they can’t block. Maybe being overpowered in Extend caused their skills to degrade, but more likely, it’s because as has always been something of the case, the good Ragna players don’t want to get recorded for whatever reason. The only decent one I’ve seen is Kaqn, and he’s still widely regarded by a lot of people as “overrated”
My last post was speaking in “past tense”, because before you had no examples. Regardless of whatever you want to believe, I AM listening.
I completely ignore you whenever you give me a hitpoint value. Sorry, but I’m not memorizing ANYONE’S hitpoint value for ANY game, ever. I’m not looking for quote worthy accuracy, just something to throw me in the ballpark as far as percentages go.
Watching that match, I saw something that I only theorized about earlier, and found it true now. For sure now, we’re simply not going to agree on what’s significant a life gain with Ragna. Everytime ragna recieved a beatdown, I placed my thumb over the life he had remaining to actually guage how much life he was getting back. He didn’t even break 10%. Not once. Neither round he won. It’s obvious now that either you think that gaining enough life to negate only singular hits is enough to be considered significant, and are probably heavily relying on Blood Kain/Overdrives’ life drain as considerable. Well, thing with me is, if you’re spending meter to do anything, you pretty much deserve the benefits (and very little drawbacks, unless it’s deserved) - problem with blood kain is, it drains life, and to me, that’s BS, even if it was almost ANY character’s gimmick (ABA is an exception, as she does ridiculous damage and has ridiculously spammable attacks). Don’t know much about overdrive (I’m guessing that’s the Darkness mode) so I won’t say much about it. We’ll just have to disagree on this, because the life gain in that match would throw a reasonable person into fits of laughter if someone told them to take it seriously.
Well that’s my point, there are characters besides Ragna that are doing far more damage than the law allows.
This is an absurd statement. For starters, this is one of those “ITT: We BAW and RAGE about shit in BB”. You guys showing up to tell us how much we shouldn’t be worrying about these moves/factors is actually the unwelcomed part. You’re actually “derailing” or “ruining” the thread, as contributing to it would be … well, more bitching, baw and raging. I don’t go to a “Let’s bitch about Sol Badguy” thread expecting to put reason into anyone there - they’re all scrubs to me, there’s worse than Sol in every single game there was yet this character’s the one giving you problems? :\ I know that they won’t care, but here in this case I’m at least giving you a chance to state your case. You’re not doing all that well. Throw out as many values as you like, I look at the lifebar and say “significant” or “not significant”. And second of all, there’s absolutely nothing ill informed about my judgment of Ragna’s drive as you’ved proven my theory correct in your own counter argument, where you provided an example of a non Bloodkain/overdirve significant life drain match, where his only gain could be negated with two counterhits. Theory fighter wins in the end. His damage was shown to be decent (success on your part), and that’s pretty much it.
I can give you that, sure.
Idiots, all of them. He’s also great in Guilty Gear, dealing out the punishment. You tend to give credit to people who have proven themselves as great players. So stop listening to jackasses like Jourdal, who accuses everyone of religiously worshiping Kaqn just because their favorite character happens to be Ragna :P.
So in closing, my gripe remains in that I still think his life drain ability is insignificant, and that it should either be done away with or have his gameplay tweaked to justify gaining a lot more, so that it may become significant. Anything outside of lifesteal (command grab during blood kain - sorry, don’t fuckin know the name of the move) doesn’t come of as enough gain to me.
I can tell you something better. I don’t fucking play this game, I merely watch it. I feel so bad now .
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Since you are basically unwilling to work in useful numbers, I am forced to discount pretty much everything you say. Trying to have a conversation in terms of “average damage of an average combo on an average character, expressed in vague percentages” is EXACTLY why you are not impressing anyone with your understanding of this game.
This entire statement is, essentially, quantifiably wrong, since Blood Kain IS overdrive AND does not drain life in CP. Done here. You are clearly not interested in understanding what you are talking about.
Bullshit, you made some rather obvious mistakes in English, and attempted to go with them. I pointed them out, is all. You’re simply attacking my knowledge of the game, which if you haven’t read my comment toward Huggy, equates to nothing but what I’ve watched in videos.
Except I’m talking to YOU, and not necessarily anyone else, and my aim was never to impress you in the first place. If it takes exact numbers and values for a person to figure something out, then I’m not sure everything’s quite all there with that person. Wanting something and NEEDING something to function are two different things, and “any idiot” can see that your argument of “that little bit of shit Ragna stole” in that match you provided is NOT an example of him winning due to life steal, but just because he barely scraped by, as I theorized earlier in the thread, proving that exact everything isn’t needed to understand shit. Be unimpressed, I don’t give a shit.
Done here? Thank God. Thought I’d have to sit through another BS session of 34k this, and 15k that. I brought up Blood Kain and Overdrive as separate for a reason. Pay attention, and stop attempting to attack my credibility as reliable source of BB information as if I was in the first place, as I’m talking to you, and only you, and anyone else reading I’m not concerned about. When it comes to games that I’m partially interested in playing, I’m quite fine in theorizing about what I see, and when it comes to Arc games, I tend to be highly critical of the mechanics they put in place, especially ones that don’t work, or appear insignificant to other gimmicks in the game, sometimes proving they don’t know how to balance worth shit.
Damn straight. Finally you figured out the point of this thread.
That’s what happens when both new players meet old players, and BB player meets GG player. You think I’m “whining”? You got BB players worried about the most trivial shit. Back in my day, we were worried about characters that could do 80% of lifebar and gain about 20% of theirs back when they did bite loops and pile bunkers. Those players didn’t complain about the life gain on that, they were more worried about being able to even HIT the fucker because his backdashes were invincible and could buffer AND transfer that invincibility into his special moves. It was like GG’s version of Rollcanceling, only one character could do it.
So why ARE you complaining about “trivial shit” in a game you don’t play?
As for my English, frankly, I don’t understand what you are correcting. Just what in my post do you perceive as a “possibility” and how am I “adding it” to a definite? The only thing I can find wrong with my post or my argument, which I repeated later without you objecting, is that I made a point #1 without ever going on to make a point #2.
You were the one who said “You got BB players worried about the most trivial shit.” I presumed that when compared to your example of GG stupidity, this was just that.
I just told you. It’s Arc’s implementation of gimmicks I have a problem with, not necessarily that they show up in BB. And I’m mostly talking about BB players in general, not (or not just) you.
Blame that on my constantly having inaccess to vocabulary. I meant to say that you don’t combine a definite and a conditional together and call it a sound argument. Either it WILL happen or it MIGHT happen. You can’t ASSUME Ragna is going to get so and so during a match when you stated beforehand that HE WILL get it not matter what.
To me, it doesn’t matter if one character’s “gimmick” is better or worse than anyone else’s. What matters to me is how well the whole character comes together. Jin, for example, to me, doesn’t have a particularly good “gimmick” but he’s always been a perfectly fine character. Makoto’s “gimmick” is nothing but an execution challenge, but she was a monster in CS2. The “gimmick” as you put it, is only part of the character, and it doesn’t really matter how it balances against other characters’ as long as the whole package comes together well.
To me, an assumption is a definite. When you’re doing something for like, physics or theoretical maths, your assumptions are your definites. You need to be careful to make plausible assumptions, but assuming you do so, they are definites for the purposes of the argument.
Does anything think that “Ragna will land combos in anything that approaches a close match” is a flawed assumption?
Here’s something that I just don’t understand. Why is Valky one of the least used and least talked about characters? I mean, I never see the guy online; only on rare occasions. Add on the fact that he has one of the bottom 2 dustloop character sub-forums in terms of post count (discounting the 4 new CP characters) and it just seems like no one wants to play him. Now I could understand if he had a lame character design and was bottom tier, yet he is none of those 2 things.
He is easily one of the most powerful playable characters in the BB storyline (alongside Rachel, Hazama, Relius, Hakumen, etc) and he is easily one of the toppiest of tier characters. The dude gets like 5.6k damage meterless from a 2C confirm midscreen and nets like 61 meter. For the love of god, a cornered 6C confirm nets him 6.2k for 50 meter and leaves him meter positive. Meter. God damn. Positive. His corner carry is amazing as well. Not to mention the fact that his wolf mix-up is practically unblockable, your best bet would be to chicken block that shit or just not be put into a position where you’re susceptible to it. While his oki isn’t the best in the game, it certainly isn’t bad at all; it’s actually really great. Amazing meter gain, broken mix-up, great oki, broken damage, etc. He’s almost the complete package (aside from defense, where he is lacking, though you should always try to be initiating offense anyways).
Even though he is one of the relatively new characters to the series, so is Platinum. And I see Platinum’s all the time, her character board has over 7000 posts which is even more then some of the characters that have been here from the start. Is this really cooler then this? I don’t know, maybe it is for some people.
I’m not complaining or anything, I actually like that my character is underused (hipster logic). But I just cannot seem to comprehend it in the slightest.
When I was looking at the game’s characters/mechanics before I purchased it, Valk seemed like one of the lamer characters imo. Wasn’t feeling his combo’s and his fighting stance looks dumb. They should have given him his butler pose from the story mode ‘cutscenes’.
And he looks kinda tricky to learn how to play.
But I’m kinda suprised you don’t run into him online, because I run into him pretty often.
I guess so. Well, when I was picking my two characters (my main and my sub) I had a few characters that were off limits from first impression due to me just disliking their overall character design. Those characters being Makoto (I am not playing a half-naked squirrel lady), Carl (not playing a little kid who wants to be a magician), Tager (I hate low-mobility grappler characters), Tsubaki (lame outfit, lame weapon and shield), Hakumen (figured out how slow he was within 5 minutes of training mode), Ragna (I never play the main protagonist of a series, everyone always overuses them), and Platinum (wait, what?).
I still maintain the opinion that Rachel has the coolest character model/fighting stance in the entire game. Valkenhayn’s could be better, so I understand where you’re coming from. But heck, the dude is a werewolf butler who is classy yet extremely powerful.
I guess he can be a tad tricky to use, mastering wolf mode is more then likely the hardest part about the character. I run into him every once in a while, not too often though.
I’m with you on Tager, Carl and Tsubaki. I really like Tsubaki’s fighting style though, but here outfit is just so terrible. I wanted to give her a try, but then I saw that those wings on her hat start flapping when you charge her drive. It looks so dumb and I cant unsee it hahaha.
Rachel: I can’t stand the bitch. I literally hate everything about her.
I usually look at who looks badass/hot/cute. My result: Hazama (badass)/Makoto (hot+cute)/Noel(cute).
The way Hazama holds his hat while fighting is like the greatest thing ever. Plus his movement is cool, but I ended up sucking with him so I tried Makoto.
Gameplay wise she fits my style perfectly and she has the most lovable personality ever. And when I found out she had a Yoko (<3 Gurren lagann) palette I knew I found mai waifu.
Playing through Noel and Platinum’s storyline’s in the hope that they would unlock some of the other character’s storyline’s that I actually gave a shit about was one of the most excruciating gaming experiences that I have ever had.
I honestly like Rachel, once you get past the whole condescending bitch aspect of her character she becomes much more enjoyable to listen to.
In terms of your listing, I’d rate it as: Relius (badass), Litchi (hot), Rachel (cute).
) but when people come in here with silly claims backed up by nothing and treat them like fact, then start throwing vitriol around, eventually, patience wears thin. And frankly, sympathy for Ragna players is probably at an all time low around here right now.