Why don’t you read my posts and realise I’m not even talking about AHVB…
Plus the fact in Marvel you not only have to learn one character but up to three characters just to be able to compete.
I’m only going to judge on what I’ve played a lot. For 3D, VF, no question. For 2D, GG for me. Meh, Marvel never struck a cord with me, and probably never will.
lmao words from a true top player :rolleyes:
I don’t like games where in a cast of 50+ characters there are 6 characters that are good. I also don’t like games where after the first 3 seconds, the opponents imputs are irrelevant. I don’t like games where all characters and human players play the exact same way. I was a big fan of the series up until Marvel vs Capcom 2, then it got very sloopy which for the VS series is quite a feat. Personal opinion FTW.
Would you rather play a top marvel player or a Daigo?
The same could be said of all religions… I mean you.
I know you aren’t, but you should be, which was my whole point. Sol might be the simplest pick-up-and-play character in all of Slash. Comparing B&B Sol to B&B Magneto is apples to oranges. I’ll give you that teams have a higher learning curve than single characters, though.
rofl
Similarly, you could write volumes of giant books on how to play Guilty Gear. Seriously I don’t even know how much random shit I know about Johnny. I could easily write an entire book on every mixup, setup, pokes, gameflow, matchup, char specific combo shit I know. It would take forever to explain Johnny, in fact it’s pretty much impossible. I can explain to someone the fundamentals and specifics of combos but trying to explain his entire character would be impossible because it requires a lot of knowledge and natural experience with the character.
I don’t play MvC2, and I don’t even like the game, but I accept that it has a high level of complexity. I dunno that I would put it above Guilty Gear though in terms of technical skill. To me they seem pretty much even. I might put it a bit in MvC2’s favor just from what I’ve seen. What I don’t like is people downsizing the complexity in Guilty Gear. Usually the people simplifying GG or MvC2 hate the particular game, but the simple truth is they’re both really complicated.
If some of the better players would give it a chance and try to learn it I think they’d realize it’s tougher than it looks. It really does have a lot of complexity. I personally like GG the best because it has a perfect mix of complexity without being too full of bullshit for it’s own good(MvC2, IMO).
Eh that’s, like 722 said, comparing apples to oranges. In MvC2, the complexity of learning 1 character is lower than learning 1 character in Guilty Gear to the same degree.
The tough part to analyze is if it’s tougher to learn a 3 man team in MvC2 or a single character in Guilty Gear. Having 3 characters to learn doesn’t necessarily mean anything. They could all add up to the difficulty of Venom in GG or something. Because well, different teams/characters have varying degrees of difficulty. It’s pretty hard to guage, they probably break even.
See what I was talking about?
First, decide if we’re talking about sheer executional demand or strategic ability. For execution, I’d vote Guilty Gear overall. Marvel inputs are generally just hella fast, and Cvs2 inputs are really methodical and precise. Guilty Gear makes you do both of those (chain combos and frcs respectively), which is in my mind very demanding. No knock against either of the games being compared, it’s just that Guilty Gear requires more of both sides than either game does on its own.
For strategic ability, I would have to vote (under duress) for Marvel. Marvel is very complex in team and counter-team strategies, and just the zoning and “safety” concepts in Marvel could fill volumes. The team element is really what pulls it together, the synergy between characters is really a thing of beauty when you see someone pull it off well. Every character on your team is vitally important, even if they’re “just an assist”. That dynamic is rather obtuse when you watch a lot of matches, but some really stand out and show you exactly why people play a particular team in a particular order. The team dynamic is what clinches it for Marvel.
N - But of course VF wins hands down.
heh, maybe so. But, once you learn 1 character you already learn most of the cast anyway in marvel. Learning those 3 characters are easier to learn 1 character in gg. You can get better in marvel, before you can with gg. learning rom inf, fly/unfly. jap setup being hard? Ha, I had an easier time learning those then playin gg itself. talking about you can write a book about marvel thicker then some encyclopedia, ha. You can write a book on GG game system alone. Plus, marvel is always the same. When they bring out new installation of gg, meaning game system changes, changes of combos, etc… I actually spoke to some marvel players about gg. I asked them why you dont like gg. They said: “It’s not that I dont like the game, its just that GG is too hard of a game. It takes too much time to learn”. I can go on but ill just leave it as GG is like 2D version of Virtua Fighter as far as depth, “Technical Ability”.
In your 2 paragraphs, you didn’t mention anything about techniques still. Just strategy and tactics.
On a techinical standpoint, a Wavedash counts as a technique. A Snapback counts is a technique. A Ha-Ha step counts as a technique. A Slow Escape counts as a technique. A Crouch Cancel counts as a technique. A Roll Cancel counts as a technique.
It doesnt matter what someone’s view is on if it’s easy or hard to perform or do. But the move itself is a technique, and that’s techinicality.
So the question is, what game has THE most technical capacity. What game has the most use of techniques and terms, what game has the most techniques in general, etc.
EDIT: It’s not even really about opinions. Cause each of these games all have a set number of techniques that can be performed, even if all of them arent discovered yet. Doesnt mean that a game that has twice as many technical things in it, is much deeper than another. Cause at a certain level of play, maybe only a handful of the techniques are actually feasible.
Magneto which MvC2 players did you speak too about GG being harder?
Excuse me, where the fuck is your competition for Virtua Fighter? Just from that comment, I bet you play Jackie, Pai, Lau, etc. If you button mash in Virtua Fighter, or any fighter for that matter, you’ll get your ass handed to you, especially in Virtua Fighter with counter characters.
As for most technical 2d wise, its a tie between GG and Marvel. 3D Wise, obviously Virtua Fighter
I would say Guilty Gear, learning one character takes a lot of work
The point I’m trying to make is that I picked up a character, it doesn’t matter who, and with in a few months I could compete with other people. Marvel on the other hand just isn’t like that… You absolutely have to learn the advanced techniques before you can even begin to play with higher level people. It doesn’t matter whether Sol is an easy character to learn or Magneto is a hard character to learn because the debate isn’t about which characters are easy or hard to use.
The point of the fact is that in order to play Marvel on a competetive level you have to learn a top tier character, no matter what. Fair enough if the competition isn’t so great then you could get away with using low tier characters, but to compete with the masses you have to be on par. You have to learn air dash canceling, you have to learn fast fly/re-fly, you have to learn tri-jumps etc etc. Then on top of that you have to incorperate it into your game, which isn’t an easy task.
Another point to make is that the further down the tier list in Marvel you go, the less advanced the techniques get and while it might appear they’re easier characters to use, you actually have to put more effort into them to get results. Guilty Gear on the other hand isn’t like that, it has pick up and play characters because quite simply in my opinion, it’s easier to play.
HAha your funny.
You were right.
My views, well obviously VF has the hardest learning curve, so it wins.
I dont play GG enough to question it, I dont play MvC2 at all, like ShinAkumax I stoped playing after the 1st MvC.
Frankly there’s TONS and TONS of scrubs in the US at GG. Scrub density in GG>Scrub Density in Marvel in the US. So of course you need less experience to compete in the US at GG, especially if you aren’t in a hotzone for GG that actually has good players(I have no idea where you’re located).
Pretty sure the question is which game is deeper at top level play, which frankly for Guilty Gear very few players are capable of in the US. Try going to Japan to play GG where the level of play is extremely high, and try to place top 16 at any of those tournaments with the Sol you just picked up and played. Won’t happen.
The difference in your argument is that the US is where top level play is for Marvel, so in order to compete at high level play it will require more time. Whereas in GG it’s not as popular, and more people who play it scrub it because it is not their main game, and thus you do not need to spend as much time in the US practicing GG because the level of play is not as high as Marvel’s.
This doesn’t mean the GAME itself is lacking in depth, only that the playerbase hasn’t advanced as far into the game yet because it’s not as popular.
1.You’re comparing the highest level of Marvel to the lowest level of Guilty Gear. GG has more characters that require Magneto style practice than Marvel does. And if judging your GG prowess against Americans you need to travel to the place where it’s played properly…Japan.
2.It’s pretty funny you’re holding GG’s balance against it. In actuality all the characters are potential threats unlike MvC2 where you can easily disregard 80% of the cast. You actually have to know how to fight a character like Zappa.
My take:
It’s no surprise that the two most technical, balanced fighting games don’t played out here as they require superior skill. VF I can understand why this doesn’t get played, but GG? This should’ve been a shoe in for the next big game out here especially after MvC2 hit a downswing. I question most y’all’s sanity when you pick a game like 3S over GGXX (especially if you play Marvel). The only thing that makes sense is that Americans don’t really wanna play hard games no matter how great they may be. :sad:
For 2D GG for sure, 3D VF which has been mentioned as well already.
Argue about MvC and GG in another topic. As far as MvC2 goes, its depth lies mostly in execution. If combo depth was all that mattered, 3S should technically be trash.