Agreed. You could literally pick any game out of the Evo lineup, hype up a tournament, and you would need to be mad lucky (or literally have multiple sponsors) to get 60 people for any of them. 60 people is a ridiculous requirement for A3 to be included in Evo. If they’re never gonna put it in, I’d rather they just say it and leave it at that.
Or maybe somebody needs to move to Japan and point to one of the big Japanese A3 tourneys and beat them on a technicality. They didn’t say it had to be in the US, right?
This is a good discussion and all, but save for a few players, noone shows up to the major A3 tourneys. all this talk about how much ppl love a3 but noone ever shows up except for wc/ec and a few stragglers. tahts another factor to consider.
The more you play A3 vs good players, the more you see “regular” fighting. I actually have on tape Alex Valle streaking up a bunch of good A-Dhalsim/V-Sak/V-Akuma players with his A-ISM Ryu. Likewise, just because V-ISM characters can start a combo by hitting two buttons, that doesn’t mean that they don’t have to fight. In most A3 matches I see, there’s as much going on as in a 3S match if not more- it just happens to be poke vs poke and spacing and so it looks different. A majority of matches, even in V (if not especially in V) are highly kinetic.
And V gives you controllable limbs, which only aids in “regular” fighting as it gives you more options, depending on the character. It’s like saying C-Groove is stronger than K or A-Groove in CvS2. Because V is the best -ISM overall doesn’t mean that A isn’t good or that it can’t compete, because “regular” fighting is still important in A3 and A-ISM is about as good as V at it.
Sabin- well most players in general don’t travel too much, you know? Since a lot of people can only go to one major, if that, it helps a great deal if it’s gonna be at the one you’re going to. A lot of people only plan on going to Evo, and A3 just won’t be there. We as A3 players haven’t really stepped up and given it a presence, either- even if just in the BYOC room. Even on (…dramatic pause) …Dreamcast…
lol fuck A3 on dreamcast. (On a side note, someone should actually do Dreamcast A3 tiers just for kicks. :P) But yeah ^ agreed, although alot of these tourneys are announced months in advance, and a lot of people who SAY they are going don’t show up. I know personal shit takes priority over games, heck look at Apoc, he couldnt show up at MWC A3 because of personal issues (I don’t blame him at all.) Still, like I said, alot of people hype up the game like its the greatest, but never show up. The people who are devoted to other aforementioned games show up to support the scene, so why can’t we? Besides what you mentioned, I think it’s due to laziness, the fact that the game is 6 fucking years old, and the reasons i mentioned in my post on page 2.
SodomSFA3: Yeah I played you before. I was the hispanic looking guy that probably played V-Karin against you, since I play her all the time in casual. Your Sodom is definetely alright, especially for someone I’ve never seen before (the assumption generally is, you expect “unknowns” not to even be halfway decent.) You picked a bad time to start asking ppl for comp since the game is dead. I’ll be there on friday, though i might be there at 7. You’re impossible to miss, white dude that plays a-sodom lol.
Compare that to VF4 though. Even worse even WITH Evo support. I’m just saying that SF games should AT LEAST be given the same respect as other fighters but, backing SF isn’t what SRK is about? lol ok.
VF4 was ALWAYS dead here. A3 was the hottest game for some time even AFTER 3s was brand spanking new. The chances of Evo encouraging other tourney entries for A3 is MUCH MUCH MUCH higher. Shiet. Announce A3 for Evo now and you’ll see majors throwing it back in. I mean, even when folks weren’t showing up tourney organizers(aside from SRK) were still giving it the respect it deserves.
I remember A3 at Evo this year. It was set-up and there were like 20 peeps waiting to play and then we got a hold of the sticks and it became a joke. We wanted to play serious and it wasn’t going to happen on those controllers. Still, ppl were trying to watch the ridiculously random matches goin’ on for a bit.
Point is, ppl wanted to play A3 more than watching the quals for many games. Too bad the sticks were as shitty as the 3s ones SRK provided:( At least an attempt was made.
Also, look at how interested ppl got in this thread. The scene is hurting so bad that discussion on including an OLD stellar SF grabs your attention. Yeah, ppl may not be playing but, it’s obvious ppl care. If they held it at Evo, SRK might look like it’s promoting SF! OMG!!! How wack would that be!?
Quality over quantity folks. If there was ever a time to stress that, it’s now. Maybe I’m delusional but, I think taking the scene seriously from a competitive SF aspect may actually SAVE the scene. Bring seriousness and respect back to the scene. I’m sick of SF becoming all soft and geeky. Sorry but half of the scene are ONLY fighting game players.
Apoc thats true but the difference is, VF players are way more motivated (despite the lack of comp) and they travel way more frequently than peeps that supposedly play A3, despite the fact that they have a small scene…I always hear about VF players in the USA going to Japan and vice versa. Case in point, in my area theres a strong VF scene (even though only the core ppl play.) They even went as far as to chip in for boards and a japanese dual link cabinet, and they spent money to get VF4:Evo and Final Tuned. The players here also pay for top VF Japanese players to come here and play.
Players from all across the world in VF have traveled great lengths to play each other. I guess it’s cause they’re older and more mature in general, and they love their game(s) more than the devoted A3 fans love A3, while the capcom scene is full of Stupid Retarded Kids haha. Not that I’m trying to defend the Cannons in their way of thinking cause you know i share the same sentiment as you. But perhaps that’s why they gave A3 the shaft and VF all that extra attention.
It’s not another factor, it’s THE factor. There are more “where is A3?” threads than there are players or tournaments.
There was a thread a while back about this, people gave all sorts of suggestions about holding tournies, getting the scene invigorated, and absolutely nothing happened.
I think it would make a much better impression if instead of complaining someone took it upon themselves to actually DO something.
Impression on whom? I WOULD do something. Have it at Evo and I’ll run it and ppl will pay 500$, PLUS, to go there to compete against the best and the Japanese. Tell me what to do. Don’t tell me to try and coerce 60ppl to spend their money to fly and play JUST to get it into to EVO when there’s no promise that it will be added if we do so. We’re not even talking about hyping the A3 scene to have A3 at every tourney. We want it at ONE tourney. Nothing WE can do will accomplish that.
Posting our feelings and shooting SRK’s reasoning and excuses out of the water IS doing something.
I mean, if SRK said “get 60 players to sign up, in advance, paid entry, (including entrance to EVO itself)and we’ll hold it.” Everyone would send their f*cking checks early and be overjoyed. You can’t get more proof of a turn-out than ppl paying in advance. Holding a 60man tourney elsewhere makes it more difficult for some to even travel to Evo since many can only get free time once a year or can’t afford 2 trips. Straight up! How fair is that? Evo gets their numbers, guaranteed, even if ppl don’t show up. That’s 60 paid entrants before Evo even starts. Then, I’ll run it along with other A3 players.
That’s not ridiculous unlike other ideas. Any other suggestions on what to do, Margalis?
Apoc you seem to forget that A3 was at MWC, yet ironicly you didn’t show. There goes your ONE tourni which was semi recent and you did nothing to get it together.
Apoc stop being a victim and start doing something about it. As long as you remain a victim, nothing will change. Realize that fact.
Sorry due. You’re trippin’. I didn’t know until it was too late and I’m a victim because I couldn’t attend?
Realize that not everybody has got the time when needed or the money.
How am I a victim. I just dropped the scene. I’m not trippin’. I’m just speakin’ on it and the excuses given are insulting to anyone of mediocre intelligence.
Tell you what. If you want to pay for my trip and pay for what I lose for missing work so I can pay bills and I would NEVER miss an A3 tournament.
Try to think things through before you insult someone. I never play the victim. Meet me in real life. I’ll just call these excuses stupid and feel sorry for anyone stupid enough to buy into them. I don’t have the time or money to run my own Evo. That doesn’t mean that those that do make the best decisions. At the very least, don’t pay us lip service. If you think you’re right, you should be able to clearly explain it without offering stupid ass excuses.
^ Just noticed Apoc posted 2 minuted before me. Disregard my posts then.
Shinji I think you missed my recent post on page 2. Apoc said he couldn’t go to MWC because of personal/money issues…it happens. It’s not like Apoc hasn’t supported the a3 scene like 29838902890389023 times before, i’ve played him at plenty of major tourneys. No need to hate bro.
Apoc this kind of brings up another topic altogether. The Cannons have had a monopoly on the SF scene for some time now. While people don’t have the money or the drive to build a community over a certain game, the cannons did and they happened to do it at the right time…right around when MVC2 was about to be released so naturally the site got a lot of attention as opposed to being on agsf2.
I guess the Cannons have been a big help to the scene, obviously while being detrimental to it in other aspects. (that’s what happens when you have the decisions of a few affecting many) In all, I wish the players would have a bit more say in making decisions involving SF. We do have some kind of input but it’s not as much as I would like. This whole situation is kind of a catch-22 in a lot of ways (the way the scene is heading) if you know what I mean. But yeah, that could be a whole nother topic alone.
A3 for Evo2k5 plz
k thx
But seriously, this is at least the third or fourth long-ass “why isn’t A3 at evo”-type thread in the past few months or so. That’s pretty sweet. Lots of great points have been brought up.
SCII had the most entries for all the 3D games at EVO and had a strong tournament scene before it’s inclusion in EVO, so don’t tell me there was no justification for it.
Hrmm… so as far as you are concerned, EVO had little to no effect on VF’s popularity. Wait a second… isn’t that one of your main arguments for lack of interest in A3 right now? IIRC, you said that since A3 isn’t included in Evo, no one bothers to play, but if it was added to EVO’s lineup, A3 would suddenly flourish and tournaments would sprout all over. Hrmm… if it didn’t ‘work’ for VF4, why do you immediately assume it will for A3? Seems like ‘EVO inclusion = popularity’ argument fails in this case. I guess it must be a VF4 thing only. :rolleyes: Hell, I don’t even think this argument works for the SBO tournament series (w/ regards to other games). Sure, at A3’s high point, it was way more popular than VF4 ever was here, but I don’t think that immediately means it will pull numbers if it was included at EVO. ST was once super popular too, so therefore by all your accounts, it should pull a shitload of players. Hrmm… if I recall correctly, it pulls the least of the 2D group. Maybe A3 would do worse, or maybe it would do better. Who knows? But most of the time it’s best to assume the worst.
Seriously, you guys spend more energy complaining about the lack of A3 interest/tournament than you would in putting one together yourself. I don’t even see any attempt at forming small locals. I don’t see how forming any size tournament is hurting the scene. Forget the 60 man ones for now. Focus on some locals and smaller region ones.
Hrmm… the other games at those other majors still seem to pull quite a few players. Maybe not EVO numbers, but not absolutely zero either. Are A3 players poorer than the others?
I won’t lie. I only read this thread since I saw ‘Apoc’ had replied in it. I just wanted to read some of your claims and the rediculous numbers that you spout out. I’m always up for a good laugh.
I have nothing against A3. I don’t play it anymore, but personally I would love to watch A3 matches at EVO. But being a nice ‘alternative’ to watch isn’t immediate justification for it to be there.
If thats true then my mistake, lets replace SC2 with ST then, one of the least popular games at EVO. ST got into EVO by having players whinge and people holding tournaments. The exact same thing is happening right now, people are whinging, and A3 tournaments are being held. I don’t recall SRK demanding a 60 man ST tournament back when they were trying to figure out whether to have ST featured, although my memory isnt that great.
I’m just wondering, if its good enough for ST, why not A3? Is it because A3 isnt in SBO? Is it because the organisers don’t want a repeat of Absolution where Japanese players steamroll the American competition with X-Ryu and V-Mika? I don’t mind if those are the reasons, I would just like them to give us a real reason, cut the crap.
That’s a simple one. Firstly: Because their history is entirely different. Not ONE VF has been huge in the states or the tourney scene in general. A3 was the biggest game of the scene at one point. Many players just left after its’ “run” was over. A3 is unlike any other SF. It really is. A3 was always interesting in the states. There’s a clear difference between a game that never had a scene, and whose series never had a scene(I’m talking big tourney scene not a group of ppl in one state like Wa)and a game that was one of the most successful tourneys games of the most successful fighting scene in US tourney history.
Secondly: Because SFA3 is a Street Fighter game. Most SF players have a bit of knowledge about every SF game or at least many, and they are familiar with how moves are done. Doing a dp isn’t going to be something they have to “get down” be they can start learning the game itself…UNLIKE ANY Vf4 game where most fighting gamers in the US don’t even know how its’ played. I’m saying that A3 isn’t totally unfamiliar territory to most whereas, to most, VF4 is. Sooooooo many ppl played A3 in tournaments throughout the years in the US. Hundreds more than competed in VF tourneys. I know. I’ve held both tourneys. SF players are more likely to enter other SFs. So A3 die-hards would come and ST/CvS2/3s players would add some to A3 and some would enter for the heck of it. I’ll guarantee that some will enter JUST to support A3 at Evo because they share similar ideals for the scene that I have. Even ppl that don’t play A3 or aren’t good at it still believe it should take presidence and have a place at Evo before ANY non-SF game. Other scenes are piggy-backing on SF when their used to be a lot of jealousy over the SF scene. SF clearly has gotten the most respect over the years and that offended other scenes. Now, they piggy-back on SF to strengthen their scene? Fuck that. That’s all well and good but the SF family should take care of the SF family FIRST. MANY believe this. They’d enter A3 on principal.
Thirdly: Because SFA3 hasn’t had as low a turn-out as VF4 has. SFA3 was dropped BEFORE the A3 majors got small. It was only AFTER A3 went to exhibition only that ppl stopped playing. Check B4 AND B5. See how many players entered? It was going to be too big that they had single elim qualifiers to widdle down to 68 players. There were 68 pools and you had to win your pool in order to qualify. I know my memories a bit off but I know it was close to something like that. The point being, A3 was dropped from Evo AND THEN it died. That wasn’t a coincidence. We all knew that it was not going to be at Evo2k2. It wasn’t until it was added as an exhibition just after MWC that they decided to add it. I only got on the list for the qualifying tourneys cuz I happen to get 3rd or something. Random Luck that I filled the requirement without knowing. Up until then, we all thought it wouldn’t be at Evo at all so ppl stopped playing well before that. Because of that, MWC only got like 32 players, or something like that. It was still a hot tourney but, the drop from Evo was clearly showing like I KNEW it would. Heck, even I stopped playing. I just happen to place at MWC. I was lucky enough to start getting back into it with a few sessions before Evo to make the team. Again, even “I” stopped playing because of Evo dropping it. Quite honestly, the argument is easily made that the decision to remove A3 from Evo is the main reason why A3 died. Ppl stopped practicing for tourneys in their arcades so the arcades didn’t make what it used to, arcade owners think it’s because it’s old and remove it. Sure, there are plenty of factors contributing to this but, Evo did a whole lot more than got the ball rolling. It took a healthy scene and dissed it and we all dropped it leading to other factors that contributed to its’ demise. Again, there’s a difference between a game that never had a scene and a game that once dominated the scene. Evo didn’t drop it because it was dead. The year before had over a hundred players, iirc. It may have been even more than that. Then they left it out for 3 years in a row. The longer it’s out the less possibility for a true resurgeance. Instead, they’d rather try and build the VF scene while saying that they all like A3 over VF4.
As you can see, there is a clear difference here. That is why Evo doesn’t do squat for VF and why A3 would EASILY outperform VF4 if it were at Evo(of course not if you wait more years to add it back). Honestly, it’s a joke to think that A3 wouldn’t easily get MORE than 60 at Evo. History contradicts this. Tom and Tony are smart and they know it would do better than a couple of games if it were at Evo STILL even after a 3 years’ hiatus. That isn’t even a question. Of course, I don’t expect them to admit that but, it’s an easy projection. They’re not stupid enough to think otherwise no matter what they say. Heck, analyze this post and draw your own conclusion based on the history of A3 in the scene. Of course, they might be blushing a bit too much if they add A3 after all they’ve said and it makes them look wrong. Heck, ESPECIALLY with my stupid ass saying this all along. I really don’t think they have the humility to risk that. They don’t want posts saying that “Apoc was right all along” while taking note that they were. That would be a shot to the pride I don’t think they can take. Otherwise, cut with the excuses and prove me the fuck wrong already. How easy would it be to do? Try it once. They need a couple of cabinets cuz, of course, there’d be less than 60ppl, right? I’ll run it and get the boards. It’s a fast tourney game so it lasts 2 hours. If there is 30ppl, it’ll last an hour with 3 cabinets. Heck, let’s make it last 40 minutes by making it single elim(lame and discouraging entrants:) Helps them make me look dumb). Wow, it took 3 cabinets with perfect sticks to make me look like an ass and to shut me up forever by humiliating me:( Of course, that would never happen. Although it’s easy to do, there is a risk that the turn-out would be rather high and they’d look like jerks for dissing it for 3 years because their reasoning for not having it was never substantiated in one of their tournaments. Even 3 years after it’s been dropped, it’s possible that, again, at Evo/B A3 has a more than respectable turn out. Fuck that. Why risk making ALL SF players happy by having every series represented if it means having to blush when 80 ppl enter and I say “I told you so. If you never dropped it there would’ve been 150.” Hell no. Pride is better than satisfying all of your supporters who were loyal the WHOLE TIME SRK supported A3.
Sorry, it’s a little to simple to shut us all up and not a good enough reason not to. It’s kind of easy to get the idea that simply don’t want to come off weak as if they’ve made the wrong decision for 3 years in a row. It’s easy to think they’d rather be worshipped and praised. I guess they don’t realize that the entire scene would be brought together and everyone would praise them because they did, indeed, make EVERYONE happy.
It’s a shame to punish A3 players for lack of a scene when SRK is the one that pretty much pushed its’ downfall before it’s time.
