The real reason is, ppl never show up to A3 tourneys when theyre announced. Game was popular oh, 4 years ago. The end.
It pulled the least of the 2d players and still more than some of the 3d games. Hmmm. Yep, pretty lame to drop ST before VF4, don’t ya think? Heck, pretty lame to drop ST before any 3d fighter. It’s SF2, afterall and this is SRK your street fighter competitive edge!
A3 could pull the least of the 2d games and still be more than a few other games clearly warranting its’ inclusion.
The personality you post in is hilarious, lol.
Apoc.
Dude, a year ago we had locals when I lived in Seattle and always got 12-20 ppl and it beat out 3s entrants occassionally. Like that shit matters. Fuck locals. Everything is viewed as practice for Evo where it counts. Err…where it used to count. The whole console thing has blurred this. They really need to get a set height for controls and stools. Shit, just measure a deluxe capcom sf cab and copy the positioning. There needs to be a standard. The standard can’t be playing on the floor just so you can ensure you can play the same at Evo. That’s ridiculous.
I said I’d run it and get the boards. We’re ONLY talking about A3 at Evo. We don’t care about anywhere else UNTIL it’s at Evo to give us the really fun reason to play: To get prepared for Evo and facing the Japanese…etc.
Apoc.
Hey, I’m happy to entertain:D
Apoc.
Alot of people still play it on kalleria. If you can find a server ( i get 20 ping on mine) then you don’t have to worry about lag at all.
Kaillera aint evo
Ok… that was too long for me. Sorry.
Anyway, I’m not trying to defend VF4’s inclusion into EVO. I agree it’s popularity in the states is dismal at best. But the one thing going for it is that it draws new unique players. VF4 got like 60 players or so at last EVO (I don’t remember the exact number), but the majority of those players are VF players only. These players don’t come and participate in the other games as well. (Well, they might, but those other games aren’t the reason they came to EVO.) VF draws a new crowd that helps cover EVO’s cost. I’d assume that most of the players that show for an A3 tournament at EVO would already be coming to EVO anyway. So in essence, they don’t help cover costs and in the end just result in a bigger bill. So that’s at least one thing VF has going for it.
A3 is one of my favorite SF. Granted, I suck at the game and can’t do a single V-ism combo. I only use X and A. I never got the chance to play against people who were good and had some in depth knowledge about the game. If I had a legitmate, accepted-upon-the-community port of the game I would show people so they might be interested. Whats funny is that A3 has been out since what 98? 99? I played on an A3 arcade cabinet for the first time last fall. Only way I could play is on my keyboard in my dorm.
peace
Sav
The Cannons have been doing this stuff for a long time, but the only thing that differentiates them from other people is effort really.
They traveled to Boston to help run B2, WAY before SRK was popular. They LIKE to do that sort of stuff.
A long time ago the Cannons were just some guys on a newsgroup like everybody else. Then they went out and did something. They aren’t a giant evil corporation or some monolithic beast. They define the scene because nobody else does.
What can you do Apoc? You can hold an A3 tourney. You can hold an A3 tourney at the next EVO, if you are concerned about people travelling to more than one tourney in a year. Yes, that would take some organizational skills and some time and effort.
The Cannons didn’t give you good sticks before? Why did you rely on them for sticks. Take matters into your own hands. Round up whatever sticks YOU think are good.
Anyone has the power to hold a tournament, and with EVO byoc stuff anyone has the power to hold a tournament at EVO. I see a lot of people lobbying for A3 tournies, I don’t see anybody offering to help run one, organize one, gather up supplies for one, or help pay for one.
It’s pretty easy to just ask people to do things for you. That obviously isn’t working. There is a logical next step.
sigh sometimes, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
First off, according to some folks in NorCal, The Cannons are well off financially and can afford to pay for events before they get anything back from entrants. That is why they define the scene dude. That’s being real. If they didn’t have the money or resources to do so, players, themselves, would be defining the scene like they always did before B5. Also, all the top players backed them because they always did what was right for SF. Things are different now. I don’t discount the good they’ve been for SF in the past but, now, SF isn’t their priority. It feels as though they’ve turned their backs on the little ppl that supported them.
2ndly, it don’t mean shit if A3 isn’t OFFICIAL with the same recognition lesser games get.
3rdly, do you really think I would rely on them for controls after seeing their velcro vid? Hell no, I brought mine and it got stolen. My bad. Further, 3s was on SUPERGUN. We all had to play on those dumbass sticks. Ask Watson, he was allowed to play on the Japanese set up and said he would’ve lost on the ones provided for Americans. He lucked out by being able to play on the better controls provided for the Japanese. We DIDN’T HAVE A CHOICE. I didn’t rely on shit.
And lastly, no one is asking the Cannon’s to do shit but add it to the line-up. No one’s asking them to organize it. No one’s asking them to run it. No one’s asking them for anything but putting it on the Evo website with the same treatment as other games and WE WILL HANDLE THE REST. In fact, I’ll even get the frickin’ cabinets there. Now what? Yep. Time to STFU in this thread. No one’s asking them for shit except some time in the room(less time than any tourney, right?) and officially announcing it. Again, I won’t even ask them to announce it. Hand the mic over. We’ll handle that shit too.
What are we asking THEM to do again? Yep, that’s right. We’re not asking them to do anything aside from giving some respect to the Alpha scene.
NEXT!
Apoc.
Damn Jason stop beasting!
Peeps are just scared of A3 Rog thats all. :lol:
Seriously he was right about the local scenes though. I was there for most of the A3 tournies and no one took them seriously (except me) because they knew it wasnt going to be at Evo. Hell TTT wasnt taken seriously here after T4 came out until they added it to Evo, then it garnered some interest again.
There are so many fighting games out there and very little time to play them all that serious gamers dont want to waste there time on a game they know isnt going to be played on a bigger stage.
I personally would go to Evo if A3 was there, then I would lose badly with my scrubby Ken but I would enter. (now that I would finally have the chance) I would be willing to be alot of other people would as well.
I recall why you couldn’t make it. Didn’t follow the scene, found out about it too late and didn’t do anything but complain. The same ole money excuses that every other player at MWC had, but just happened to be able to make it. Not sure if you know what that means though. Its called sacrafice.
Quite frankly, if I told you to organize a decent size A3 tournament and I’ve give you a million dollars after that was completed, you’d get it done. Right? Of course, cause then you’d be motivated to actually do something about it. You’d look up ways to get boards, ways to get or build cabinets, you’d figure out how to get it done. Heck you’d even think of ways to raise money for the parts in the first place. Email tons of players and find a date that works best for all of them. Heck if you really wanted to you could do this right now. Problem is, is that you don’t scarafice.
At which point you end up blaming others for why it isn’t done. This is the mentality of a victim. While I respect your skills in this game, you haven’t done anything to bring it back.
Those people didn’t sacrafice enough, plain and simple. No matter what excuses you give the Cannons for pulling this off (be it close to a good locations, or “well off”). In truth they had a goal and they worked hard and sacraficed their time and money to get it done. Even Bill Gates started out as a computer nerd with the same pay as the rest of you here. Thing is, is that he had a goal, planned out his goal and he sacraficed and worked his ass off to achieve that goal.
I’ve explained this above. Despite your game playing skills, in terms of getting your act together and fixing the problem, you are simply unaccountable. Hell for pete sakes, even Master Akuma was able to hold a decently large tourament.
You want good things in life, you have to sacrafice. You want the A3 scene to come back, then sacrafice and make it work. Don’t be throwing excuses like money, time, and work into the mix. If you really wanted this you could make it happen. It just so happens that right now you see yourself as a victim, and til you realize that, and get out of your rut, nothing will change.
You seem to be able to point out all of the flaws with Evo. So fix em, you know what doesn’t work.
Frankly actions speak louder than words. You say your not a victim, well then tell me why you act like one.
You see, you do have the time, you just have to make the time. Why let the decisions of others rule over you. If you think the Cannons are wrong for not having A3 at Evo, show them they’re wrong. Throw a decent sized A3 tournament. Get the big names to show (pester them with emails til they agree), plan it far enough ahead so all of you can plan ahead and ask off of work for 1 day. In your free time find some scape pieces of wood and put together several arcade cabs. Find some people who have an A3 board and ask if you can borrow it or rent it off them for 1 day. They have faqs out there on how to make your own controls. Do some fund raising, raise some money to get monitors, and rent out a place. Quite frankly, if you wanted you could do all that, and satisfy the Cannons request.
But the cannons know that you won’t. You’ve been whining the same pitch for a couple years now. Tell me, has all that whining actually changed anything? Has that whining helped the A3 scene? No, it hasn’t worked for over 2 years, what makes you think that it’ll work this time? Logically if something hasn’t worked in 2 years, you should probably try a new approach. Like I dunno, actually doing something about it.
To be honest, I’m sure that if the Cannons see that you actually put the time and effort into it and sacrafice like they do. Even if it ends up as a failure to draw a huge crowd, they’d consider it a lot more than what they currently are. Since for once in 2 years, you weren’t just talking, you actually backed it up with walking.
BTW just one thing about ST. I wouldn’t expect it to be in many arcade tournaments for too much longer. As it is about time the suicide battery hits its limit and the board dies. If anything they’ll likely goto console for ST, or shift to HSF2AE instead. With that said, Alpha 3 came out in 98, those A3 boards are going to be dieing in the next couple years. If you don’t get it together, all of the A3 boards will die before you get your chance and then it’ll be gone forever. Remember that.
No disrespect to you personally, but this is the honest to god truth. If you really want it, you can make it happen. To parallel that point, even Arnold Schwartsenager wasn’t completely blessed with his body. He had to work his ass off literally with 16 hour a day gym workouts. He had to find what diet plan worked best for him, and he had to follow through with these plans. People don’t often see the hard work it takes to make something great, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t there.
Wouldnt it make more sense to just put all that hard work and promotion into the actual Evo A3 tournament? Yes I know youre asking just one person to do that but think about it this way, Apoc already said that if it were at Evo, then he would take that stuff up so wheres the problem? Risk of not having enough people? Theres all that pre-registration biz…EVO will know what to expect. Depending on the number of entrants, proper arrangements can be made. Its not like the tournament will be set up for 100 people and only 2 show up.
Anyway, theres a marginal cost associated with all this (“this” being asking someone to set up their own tourney). The marginal cost of someone throwing a new tournament, building their own cabinets, begging for money, etc. etc. is HUGE.
The marginal cost of having it at Evo is much smaller. All the main promotion is already there. The sticks are there. Its easier to organize, etc. etc. The advantage of doing it at Evo is that there are going to be a number of people who can help out and shit.
This is not to mention the stress it causes everyone. Say you really like A3, are you going to take time off work, slap down 400 dollars and fly out for one tourney? Perhaps, if you wanted to support it. But would you rather have that or the A3 tourney being at something you already had planned for, already something you had allocated for in your budget and where you know all the best players in the country will be at without a doubt?
To be honest I dont really see the problem as its not Pong that Apoc asks to be accepted…its a popular Capcom fighting game. What is the worst possible case scenario? That you throw this tournament and only 10 people show up? Youd have to be a fool to believe that. And even if that does happen, does it really matter? You gave one of main Capcom series (among SF2 and SF3) a chance. That should atleast count for something.
Anyway, as Ive said before, Im not a big A3 dude myself but itd give a nice little added flavour to the Evo scene…not to mention letting it spice up the DVDs a bit more 
Exactly. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll more than likely always buy EVO DVDs when they come out each year, but man, they have been getting more boring with each set. Last year there was no 3S bonus/extra matches, and now this year they removed all the CvS2 bonus matches. I’m sure the Cannons had their reasons, but man did that turn into one boring ass top tier fest. As for MC2, even the bonus matches on there were 90% top tier again, so far I’ve only seen one Team Z match and one other dude using Rogue, 2 of the matches shown in the trailer. I think its clear those were put in on purpose to spice the trailer up, but there wasn’t enough of variety in the MC2 section this year either. I think more 5 on 5 mini tournies (especially an A3 one) would greatly spice up the DVDs. I mean, was it too much to ask even for a few CvS2 bonus matches? Last years set those were some of the best matches on there.
Hum, I was at Absolution and I certainly didn’t see the Japanese steamroll the competition with X-Ryu and V-Mika. The Japanese obviously dominated, but there were actually a lot of very close international matches and several Japanese players lost to UK players. Seriously, where are you getting your info from, dude? No offence, but every post of yours I read has hella inconstencies. I don’t wanna flame, but just don’t post if you don’t know shit. You’re not making A3 look better with posts like that.
It was just an exaggeration, I knew I should’ve put a disclaimer on it.
A3 is my favorite SF game and the most enteraining game to watch ‘n’ play, that being said I seriously don’t know why it went to hell? Maybe it didn’t have enough “pop” top players Valle to keep the scene alive. (Yes I know Valle played A3 but then he went into semi-retirement.)
Can I ask why the “secondly” point matters? Is it just a respect thing? Because an A3 tournament at Evo, even if it only got 25 entrants (which it get more than- you might get near 10 from Japan alone), is by definition a major, and you know there’s gonna be good comp there. I understand it being a diss to the game that it’s not on the Evo website or mentioned officially, but everyone in the community is gonna know what’s up if it’s run right.
And screw the DvD anyway, in terms of A3- even if it was in the official lineup I’d bet you more than 5 matches wouldn’t make it on to the thing because of space issues. I’ve got a shitty old VCR and a friend with a capture card and a DVD burner if it’s really the video aspect that’s important.
I’m going to take a minute to reply to this out of courtesy.
I have sacrificed plenty for SF and more than most and certainly more than you have(If you’ve been around for the last decade, you know this.) but when it comes down to it, it IS just a hobby. The goal is to make sacrifices for what’s more important to you. A hobby, I can put down and pick up when necessary. No matter how much I love a hobby, I’m not going to sacrifice the more serious things in life for it. It’s going to be the opposite. There’s a priority issue involved. Not to be insulting but, you’re ignorant to think that when the timing is more convenient and the situation more appropriate, I won’t sacrifice for SF again. Still, a hobby is the last thing on the priority list. Even when I played I was more of a casual type player. I’d show up to the cade when convenient. I wouldn’t “sacrifice” to get a perfect arcade set-up to play at home because, to me, the need to play in all of your free time is more of an obsession. When a hobby takes over the more serious things in life, it’s an obsession. As much as I love the scene and I love playing SF, I wouldn’t sacrifice the more important aspects of life for it. I don’t care if I had off once a year at Evo time. If I had a friend or family member getting married or something, so much for Evo. Darn, that means 2 years between competing in majors. Bummer. See? That’s not something I’ll regret. As passionate as I am about the scene(or used to be, I should say) I am not obsessed.
Still, I’m not going to judge anyone that seems obsessed. Heck, some of my all time homiez throughout the years, I’m sure, are only good because they’ve been obsessed. Still, I don’t know what makes them obsessed and since I haven’t walked in their shoes, I’m not going to judge them. I may tell them that they’re ridiculous, between friends, but I’m not going to try to tell them what they’re doing is wrong. I don’t know what causes them to be obsessed. Maybe life is so horrible outside of SF that they spend as much time as possible with the hobby they enjoy JUST to tolerate life. I don’t always have insight, just as you clearly have no clue about my character.
I’ll just call that the wisdom of youth. Life is not the same for everyone and folks don’t prioritize the same. To you, this is an excuse when, to me, it’s merely my honest philosophy over the matter.
Just as Sabin posted. You shouldn’t presume to make decisions for the scene just because you are holding tournies. Anyone with a clue can’t deny the influence that Evo has on the scene. Heck, we WANTED Evo to have that influence and helped it accomplish that influence. However, we did so because they backed SF in the same way we all did. Once Evo gained more wide influence, they started either taking that influence for granted, or blatantly began attempting to mold the scene in their own image. That’s similar to a politician following one path and changing it entirely upon election. To me, that’s disrespect for the scene. If SRK acted like this initially, Evo never would’ve gotten the support that led it to being as big as it is. Players like Cole/Valle/Watson/Nelson etc, would only attend when it was convenient and free money. Evo wouldn’t have drawn the top players and therefore, wouldn’t have drawn other support. Ppl jumped on the SRK bandwagon because every top player endorsed SRK. It wasn’t simply because SRK came into existence.
Unlike Sabin, I don’t believe players have influence, we have input and that’s where it ends. That’s all I’m doing. I’m giving input. But if you want to challenge me to hold and run the tourney, I’ll step up. But have the courtesy to challenge SRK to help out by endorsing it. Afterall, the argument is that there isn’t proof that A3 would pull the numbers at Evo. What better place to test that argument than at Evo? There is also the claim that most of SRK staff prefer A3 to many of the games at Evo. If that’s true, why don’t THEY make the sacrifice as well? Afterall, they would rather play A3 themselves. Sorry, I can’t subscibe to a way of thinking that makes me say “I guess Tom and Tony aren’t willing to make the sacrifices necessary to play the game they want to play even though they’ve sacrificed for VF4…oh wait. That sacrifice didn’t have the desired effects!!! Oh, they must have not sacrificed ENOUGH or VF4 would be way more popular now.” As good as I could make that sound, to me, that’s ridiculous. I don’t pretend to know what their priorities are or what sacrifices they make. The entire staff makes sacrifices! It’s clearly evident that they sacrifice. I think that should go without saying. Still, if they like the game, is what I’m proposing too much? It leads to the most possible entrants to get the best possible answer as to whether or not A3 would pull the numbers. In fact, I think HELLA ppl, A3 players and even others, would be interested to see if A3 got the turn out. I bet ppl would be checking the forums just to find out. I think this is one of the issues in the SF scene that really matter to some ppl. The turn-out watch would only add to the drama at Evo anyway.
I’m just sayin’. If we all love A3 and if we all wouldn’t mind seeing a possible resurgeance, why don’t yall challenge both SRK and myself?
See, we disagree on this. Where some of you see laziness, I see efficiency. You’ll get more for A3 at Evo if players don’t have to fly 2 places. You can judge all of these ppl all u want and say that they didn’t sacrifice enough to attend 2 tourneys, but that’s your ignorance(and I don’t say that to insult you. You are ignorant of the lives they lead). Evo would lose some entrants just because some would fly to the 1st tourney just to support its’ inclusion into Evo and would sacrifice playing at Evo for the possibility of playing it the next year. So, having a big tourney elsewhere is counter-productive(inefficient). You’re free to feel it’s laziness but the best strategy to get the most entrants for A3 at Evo is to HAVE it at Evo. That should be obvious.
The bottom line is, if you’ve got love for the game, and love for SF, in general, why doesn’t everyone work together to give it the best chance? Simple, ppl have made this personal. Myself included. I’m not saying that we’ve done so intentionally. I still don’t take this personally. While some feel that I’m dissing the SRK and their efforts, I’m merely strongly disagreeing on an issue. I’m not dissing them as ppl, I’m dissing their philosophy on the issue. Truth be told, I hold Tom and Tony dear(in a way that ain’t gay, don’t get it twisted:P) simply for the fact that they’ve helped to create some really wonderful memories(That’s a priority:D)!!! On a personal level, I’d be down. If they ever ONCE came to me as friends or pm’d me and asked me to support what they’re doing as a favor(I don’t think my stance ammounts to much anyway. I just appreciate the freedom of expressing my pov.), I would be arguing against A3 just because they definately deserve a favor from me just for giving me some wonderful memories. There aren’t many greater gifts than the gift of a wonderful memory, imo. I would “sacrifice” my personal stance and pride on the issue out of friendship cuz that’s a helluva lot more important than a frickin’ game. As Sabin said, in the end, the game is merely the meeting ground. The meat and potatoes of SF is the ppl. See? That’s a worthwhile sacrifice, imo. They deserve my support more than I need A3.
HOW-F*CKING-EVER!!!, I believe they really don’t care. My rants are a mere annoyance. If they REALLY cared and were in ANY WAY in need of defense, they would ban me or ask me to change my tune or take the time to argue the points one by one. I’m just saying that they don’t feel strongly enough about the issue either way. That’s why I feel free to continue to express how I feel on the issue. It is absolutely, 100%, not personal from my intention and, whether they take it personally or not, it’s not an important enough issue one way or the other. At least, that’s what I gather.
I’ll agree to disagree on the “victim” idea. I guess if anyone’s offended in an issue they’re playing the victim? I just don’t think that way. It’s the same nonsense that “if you don’t like what’s goin’ on, run for president!” Darn, some ppl vote on an issue. I guess no one REALLY cares or they would all run for public office, lol. I’m merely not obsessed with the hobby. I just have a lot of lot for the scene. My life isn’t going to really be affected if A3 is never at Evo again. Things would just be nicer and everyone would be satisfied. I feel strongly on the issue, with regard to the hobby. However, a hobby is not too high on my priority list. If any ONE hobby was, I think I’d get boring. I can’t chill with one hobby too much. It’s enough that I take the time to post when I can! One hobby is a boring life. So I’ve got the rest of life along with multiple hobbies. I’m just not interested in make organizing tourneys or playing the games the number 1 thing. I still enjoy expressing my perspective though. In this case, you can easily take the perspective that I just don’t care enough. You’d be right. If it were, I suppose I would make it my life’s mission, haha.
I hope I wasn’t offensive. That wasn’t the intention. Still, if I did. Drop the purse and thicken up for cryin’ out loud. This is a hobby issue and not a serious life issue. I may post passionately but I seriously believe some take these type of things way too far.
A little advice, if I may? Your “honest to God truth” is more soberly viewed as your pov or opinion. It’s not actually an absolute truth. Recognizing the difference can save ya a lot of heartache in life, heheh.
Apoc.
Just some thoughts from someone who’s never played in an A3 tournament, and played the actual arcade game (on the actual cabinet) maybe 4 times in my life…
When A3 was released in arcades over here I never played it. Not because I didn’t want to, but A. didn’t know of an arcade around here that had it; and B. transportation issues/job/school/etc.
Fast foward to the PS1 release. I know Capcom fucked up the port royally, but even then so, I fell in love with the game immediately. (Stayed up all night playing World Tour just to unlock Guile…shouda been practicing Charlie V-ism combos in hindsight though lol)
There’s just something about it that cemented A3 as one of my fav fighters of all time. (It still is, even though I rarely play it…every now and then I’ll fire up my PS1 version and I’ll fall in love with using Gief/Gen all over again)
…of course now I have a good computer, and MAME, but lacking a good connection (still stuck in 56k land…a lonely place.) :sad:
Nonetheless I think I spent about 90% of my total playing time of A3 on the PS1 port; the port which is IIRC the shittiest console port of the game. And yet still I place it in my Top 5 Fighters Of All Time list. IMHO that says something about the game (what exactly, I don’t know, but something…)
-rh