UDK needs a larger downward hitbox and to be unthrowable. Having a move that crushes low pokes would go a long way towards giving him a legit mixup game.
Good points… I imagined a safe max range lk.fk. as being a different situation from getting cornered by, say, Bison, because Bison seems to have several things to follow up a lk. scissor block string with in the corner. His standing roundhouse or ex scissor follow up would shut down a neutral jump, wouldn’t it? EX stomp could also kill that option, as well as U2. A safe lk.fk. doesn’t seem to me like it would put too many characters in a bad spot since Guile doesn’t have much he can do if it’s blocked anyways. Maybe a boom, but that can be jumped or gone through with any assortment of ex specials that a lot of the cast has, which, even if it doesn’t hit him, leaves him subject to the opponents close range mixups same as always. I think I’m reading this from the pov that if Guile stays as a 2 move character in a game where so many characters have safe get in your face moves, a safe lk.fk. is a fair spec to have. And when I say safe, I mean safer then it’s current “give the opponent enough time to drink a cup of coffee and still have time to punish with any combo of choice” safe.
… anyone have frame information for the older SF games to compare to SF4? At :36, flash kick looks to recover waaaay faster then it does nowadays, but only the frame data can confirm that. Also, anyone interested in putting up a video showing how flash kick has changed for better or worse through the years in it’s attributes? I’d do it, but I have no way to film or record… I’m sure it’d be interesting for everyone to see rather then going by what they can sort of remember from bitd (like me :).
Not sure why the developers would’ve given DeeJay’s up kicks the ability to auto-correct properly and intentionally hinder Guile’s flash kick from doing the same. Up kicks (EX and lk at least) are as good or even better anti-air wise then fk, and I think EX up kicks do more damage then EX fk if all hits connect? Funky logic on that one.
Yeah, as far as AA’s go, upkicks are WAY better than FK in this game. The difference is that FK hits pokes from far away, Upkicks don’t. I also don’t believe any FK should be safe on block and I main him. “safe” and “safer” are very very different. I actually don’t want FK to be safer on block but I do want the hitbox fixed so it doesn’t get beat/trade with everything and I do want auto-correct.
As much as I loved his air grab it was F-in magical. 
CH on boom/maxouts is retarded.
Damage nerf on FK ( which at pro levels you land what? twice a round? IF that?) is retarded.
300 dmg on U2 is retarded.
That’s it for me.
His air grab is still magical. Just need to time it a little more.
All we want is “Super” Guile back…AE nerfed him into a nerf football.
It sounds like you want Guile to have some sort of safe pressure. Safe flash kick is not the way to go. If it was safe, it would have to lose something like its invincibility and probably its armor break properties. Even then it would still be a really good move because of its range and the fact that it starts up in 4-frames.
I don’t know how else to explain why an invincible, meterless, armor breaking, far reaching dp that’s safe on block is broken. It doesn’t matter if Guile has no followups, if the opponent is in range and you have charge, you best option would ALWAYS be to flashkick. Your best followup option would be to…flash kick again. It’s not only OP, it’s bad game design.
Imagine Honda’s Sumo Smash broke armor, and you couldn’t move between the two hits on block. That’s probably the closest analogy I can make.
Flashkick being safe on block is far fetched imo. Perhaps giving it the same properties as Bison’s Scissor kick? Then again, just simply remove the extra frame on startup and leave it at that.
Edit: Then again, Ultraman Zoffy did mention “safe max range” lk flashkick. Also, lk flashkick does not have that much range as opposed to EX or HK Flashkick which is completely different altogether.
Edit 2: Forget what I said. Just remove the extra frame so he can autocorrect better. That’s it.
You can not make fk safe at any distance, the entire game would be cr.mk to push the opponent to safe distance then fk chip.
cr.mk is a really good poke to setup for a max distance fk, cr.mk + safe flash = so broken.
Imagine if bison aside from having the safe light scissor kick also had a decent projectile.
Good discussion from everyone… at the least, I can say that auto correct flash kick is still a very valid request, and very overdue.
All I want from FK is a few frames more invincibility and auto-correct. The awful recovery more than make up for those two buffs.
I am not as technically minded and into details as most of the people here. I’d just love Guile to be more like his SF2 self. Especially Flashkick and the Sweep.
Yeah, but they are different characters. The same argument could be made for why is Ken’s tatsu different than Ryu’s, or why doesn’t Guile have a command air knee like DeeJay. DeeJay’s Upkicks aren’t the same kind of GTFO me move as FK, which gets used more often as an anti-poke than an anti-air it seems. I am not just disagreeing to disagree; I am thinking about it like they really wanted to differentiate the characters. Sure in the past Guile’s FK could autocorrect, but this isn’t that game or engine.
My whole point is perhaps they intentionally made that 1f shift happen on wakeup because without it Guile might have had been a little too effective? I don’t know. At this point there have been 4 released versions of the game? As well as deliberate patches that addressed some issues like Fei Long’s infinite on Juri. Is perhaps the fact that some “glitches” didn’t get addressed (like Bison’s front leg disappearing in footsies, or some hit reel animations stopping combos, or some Ultra’s dropping in some situations) an admission of either purposeful design or acceptance of how playstyles evolve because of glitches are found and exploited?
I think it’d be a better comparison to use Ryu/Ken’s dp’s vs. Deejay/Guile’s upkick and flash kick based on the intended function of those moves. Ken and Ryu’s dp’s have different qualities about them, but ultimately function very much the same in their anti-air/auto correct abilities (at least lp.srk does, as far as I know. I haven’t used either of them since hyper fighting. lol).
Deejay’s upkicks whiffs on crouchers, but beats a lot of stuff in the air.
Guile’s flashkick covers a lot of horizontal space, but it’s terrible AA. In sf4, their intended function seems quite different.
Pretty much this. Why do I rarely, rarely get to use my char’s signature anti-air as an actual anti-air on reaction? Most of the time seems smarter to use cr.hp, df.hk or one of his other normals.
Capcom really screwed up by giving guile U2 in the first place, it is just too good of an ultra; chips, pretty safe on block, covers good distance. With all that going for it, no wonder it got nerfed in damage, is hard to fadc into it and hard to combo into it.
Keep U2 the way it is, make U1 easier to fadc into and combo into.
It is the same deal with fk, it covers so much horizontal ground that it must come with some really bad qualities; recovery and damage.
They really need to split fk into a ground version that is bad against air, and an air version that has bad horizontal coverage. That way it is less of a swiss army move and harder to use, hopefully each version will have it’s own of properties so we can pick our poison. It could be as easy as light fk good only for ground, hard fk good only for air, medium would be good for nothing, ex ok for both and great against the cross.
Lots of people are asking for too much and willing to give up too little. Guile needs to be rebalanced, some moves need to be nerfed in one aspect and buffed in another, you can not just buff everything and expect to give up nothing.
imo the way to go with ultra 2 would be this: decrease the startup time so it’s slightly faster than super, buff the damage, then give it more recovery time. that’s how they should’ve nerfed it in the first place. make it easier than ever to hit someone with it, but make it riskier to just throw it out there.
oh and seeing as i’m getting bashed for suggesting a command throw, i was theorising on stuff guile could have if he was definitely getting a new move…because it’s kind of interesting to think about. that doesn’t mean i think he needs one. is guile the only character who has to be stuck in 1992 or something?
I just wanted everyone to see the post I posted up on capcom unity. I basically copied GILLEY’s post and modified it slightly bc i think he had the best points. IMHO, I kept only what was most important, which most of the post. Some things i did not include like removing of the sunglasses option. Honestly, that never happens to me and its a matter of being precise with your buttons. I didnt want to overwhelm them with frivolous things as it was an entirely lengthy post as is. I also posted it in the suggestion box at capcom-unity.com if you guys can VOTE it up higher, theres a good chance they will see it… so PLEASE do so. Thanks guys and thanks Gilley… i gave you the credit.
GUILE Rebalance suggestions in AE:
- IMPROVE SUPER METER GAIN ON SONIC BOOM.
SF4 sonic boom charge time is 55f. SSF4 sonic boom charge time is 50f. This equals 90% of the SF4 charge time. Why not make the super meter gain 90% of the SF4 super meter gain…not 50%. That means 18 points of meter gain on sonic boom. If you are going to keep a nerf like this, make sonic boom deal 75 points of damage. Matches against players like Dhalsim for example, are hopeless without the normal meter gain that other players have.
- REMOVE COUNTER HIT ON SONIC BOOM.
Guile’s already penalized by having to charge for 50f before he can throw one. Guile can’t throw sonic boom faster than qcf projectiles, yet Guile/Deejay gets this nerf. If you want to keep this nerf, please add it to ALL characters’ projectiles. This nerf also hurts Guile’s low stun. Put Guile’s stun up to 1000 if you want to keep this nerf.
- INCREASE U2 DAMAGE
You gave U2 a 30% damage nerf(from 420 to 300). Most damage nerfs for the other characters were in the 10-15% range. If you’re going to nerf the damage on it, make it do 375 damage. This would be fair.
- RETURN ORIGINAL U2 STARTUP TIME
Put it back to 8 frame startup. It’s lost a lot of utility because of the slower startup time. It’s really hard to punish projectiles with this now. How is Guile supposed to use this for other than chip damage or obvious AA? We should be rewarded for quick reaction time, but more so, the ability to perform the extremely difficult FK > FADC > U2. It is even more difficult now, and FK > FADC backwards > U2 is impossible.
- INCREASE FLASHKICK DAMAGE.
Charge AA specials should do MORE damage than the dragon punch-type specials, not the same. You are at a disadvantage when charging for them. You can’t throw them out on a whim. FK should at least be buffed back up to 110/130/140. While you’re at it, why not fix the damage on Balrog/Blanka’s AA charge specials too, and normalize the damage on Feilong’s AA special(among others).
- INCREASE BLOCK STUN ON SONIC BOOM TO WHERE IT WAS.
people complain about Guile being too defensive and not offensive enough. This is one way to make him more offensive. When I have my opponent in the corner, SB > wiff knee > SB doesn’t work anymore. You can get hit out of this really easy. Something like jab SB > c.jab is a 1-frame blockstring now. Guile is already handicapped when it comes to his combo ability.
- FIX THE TURNING ANIMATION.
[COLOR=#0b509d]www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA54bkIRvKc Desk discovered this wierd thing that happens if you record 1f on the training dummy. Notice what happens with Guile. He slides across the ground during this. That means his turning animation has translation in it. Ever wonder why Guile is the only character in the game that can’t autocorrect with his Flash Kick/AA special very well? This is why. If you’ve seen the hitxbox videos, you’ll notice these little nodes underneath the characters during any animation. These are the nodes that tell where the character is in space. At Sony for God of War, we call those zeroJoints. What I think is going on here is the animation has a tiny bit of motion in the zeroJoint. It’s probably a small oversight/overshoot from whoever animated it.[/COLOR]
- CLOSE B+HK DAMAGE.
Put it back to 120 damage. The buff you gave it isn’t really that good. Go ahead and revert the buff you gave it if you want.
- INCREASE SPINNING BACKFIST DAMAGE.
Put it back to 120 damage.
- RETURN AIRTHROW STARTUP TIME TO 3 FRAMES.
You guys nerfed this but it still works. Put it back to 3f startup. It is only one of Guile’s few advantages since he has limited combo options. People that can air throw in reaction to Fei Long’s chicken wing for example, should be rewarded for their quick reaction time.
Special thanks to Gilley for this post in the SRK forums. I personally took the liberty of posting a separate thread so that these suggestions did not get lost in the sauce. Thanks Capcom.
So pretty much you want Guile from Super and more? I commend you for trying but there’s no way Capcom will go for it.