What changes would you make to Guile in a re-balanced AE?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

Of course, our knee jerk reaction would simply be to return him to the way he was in Super but a lot of people will apparently complain if Capcom does that (even though I’d say he was just a very solid character but far from broken).

  • Sonic Hurricane either goes back to 7 f startup or its damage gets buffed somewhere between 350-400 dmg.

  • Air throw back to 3 f startup.

  • Sonic Boom meter build increased to 0.75 of what it was in Super. Counter hit can stay or go.

  • Backfist damage upped to at least 100.

What say you?

2

I’d like lots of those, but I’d like the flashkick damage back, and possibly more frame advantage on some moves

3

Just meter build to where it was before would make me happy.

4

sonic hurriance damage buff.

unthrowable upside down kick.

5

They need to take out that ch shit from the sonic boom. Not many characters can capitalize on it too much but the ones who do make it retarded.

Like Gief’s ex greenhand that was (arguably) nerfed so he doesn’t get super free okizeme mixups. This was actually a huge deal in Super when Guile got hit because he really has no escape from the splash mixups after. The most common way for Gief to land the greenhand is through the sonic boom, which still knocks down on counter hit. So Guile is still fucked on wakeup AND his damage was reduced across the board.

Another example would be the brothers who can get a counter hit off a very high divekick and continue a combo that would not have been possible without it. ALSO Dhalsim (the worst fucking match ever) trades are EVEN MORE in his favor now.

OH also, please fix the stupid hitboxes so Guile doesn’t get unblockabled off a fucking grab from Blanka.
UGHHHHHHHHH!!!

6

Honestly, change him halfway back to super version. U2 speed to where it was before and the damage in between. Make his air throw inbetween now and then. Same with boom meter gain… halfway. The problem with AE is they just over did it.

BUT (!)

If we wanted to get creative though, there would be a few things to add just for shear silliness factor.

  • Completely off-the-ground b.hk. That would lead to some awesome options. Juri gets it with her cancellable close s.mk, why can’t guile?
  • Alter the GOD D%#& HITBOXES for f.mk, b.mk, and close b.hk. This has bothered me for so friggin long. Make them hit lower so they don’t friggin whiff over THE EXACT MOVES THAT THEY WERE BUILT TO BEAT!!! GAAAHH!
  • One of the following…
    ----- Cold blue kick. Yup. Opening THAT can of worms.
    ----- Dat Mahvel upside down flashkick. Yup. That can of worms too.
    ----- Command grab. So many worms!
    I think really any one of those would only help to supplement his gameplay nicely. CBK for long distance frame traps, banana-kick for matches where he NEEDS SOMETHING to approach cough, dhalsim, and command grab for insane corner pressure with meaty booms n’ such.
  • EX boom changes. Mainly, I’d like to see 3 different versions. mp+hp would be the current one. lp+mp would be one that recovers just as fast as his current lp boom, yet travels even slower. lp+hp would be a high-low split toss, like remy’s EX booms.
  • c.mk > f.mp ~ kara shades ~ kara U1. Why? Because.
7

my wishlist

  • 100 dmg for back fist
  • 350 dmg for U2
  • sonic boom meter build increased to 0.75 or inbetween super and AE ( meter gain in super guile is really cheap IMO … FK FADC all the day )
  • buff air throw and make it inbetween super and AE
  • some tiny dmg buff in normals or buff FK dmg
8

make his shades give meter.

9

The 1/2 way back to Super stats recommendations, flash kick to ultra 2 without FADC (a la Balrog style), and a horizontally traveling special. Scoff at the thought of a 3rd move if you want, but if folks haven’t noticed, the other characters and their move specs aren’t exactly playing the same game as Guile anymore. lol

10

there’s 4 big things that need to be changed
*-Remove counter hit nerf on sonic boom. *
Guile’s already penalized by having to charge for 50f before he can throw one. Guile can’t throw sonic boom faster than qcf projectiles, yet Guile/Deejay gets this nerf. If you want to keep this ridiculous nerf, add it to ALL characters’ projectiles. This nerf also hurts Guile’s low stun. Put Guile’s stun up to 1000 if you want to keep this ridiculous nerf.

*-Remove blockstun nerf on sonic boom. *
Guile is back to “not feeling Guile-y” on this one. People complain about Guile being too defensive and not offensive enough. This is one way to make him more offensive. It really pisses me off that when I have my opponent in the corner, SB > wiff knee > SB doesn’t work anymore. You can get hit out of this really easy. Something like jab SB > c.jab is a 1-frame blockstring now.

*-super gain on sonic boom nerf. *
SF4 sonic boom charge time is 55f. SSF4 sonic boom charge time is 50f. This equals 90% of the SF4 charge time. Why not make the super meter gain 90% of the SF4 super meter gain…not fucking 50%. That means 18 points of meter gain on sonic boom. If you are going to keep a nerf like this, make sonic boom deal 75 points of damage.

*-Fix the damn turning animation. *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA54bkIRvKc Desk discovered this wierd thing that happens if you record 1f on the training dummy. Notice what happens with Guile. He slides across the ground during this. That means his turning animation has translation in it. Ever wonder why Guile is the only character in the game that can’t autocorrect with his Flash Kick/AA special very well? This is why. If you’ve seen the hitxbox videos, you’ll notice these little nodes underneath the characters during any animation. These are the nodes that tell where the character is in space. At Sony for God of War, we call those zeroJoints. What I think is going on here is the animation has a tiny bit of motion in the zeroJoint. It’s probably a small oversight/overshoot from whoever animated it.

Other stuff that needs changed
*-Give us the ability to turn off his stupid new taunt. *
I have lost rounds before when I’ve accidentally brushed my fingers along HP+HK(going for AA c.HP). You can’t turn off this taunt, only his normal taunts. Better yet, remove the fucking thing. We asked for a new special for Guile, and this is what we get. It’s a slap in the face IMHO. And you Guile players who think this taunt is cute or funny, remember that shit when your Guile’s getting beat down cause he doesn’t have the tools to win. Putting taunts on the “face” buttons is a really bad design decision IMHO. They really should make it like the old console games where you had to press short+start to taunt.

-U2 damage nerf
You gave U2 a 30% damage nerf(420 to 300). Are you kidding me? Most damage nerfs for the other characters were in the 10-15% range. If you’re going to nerf the damage on it, make it do 375 damage.

-U2 startup time nerf
Put it back to 8f startup. It’s lost a lot of utility because of the slower startup time. FK > FADC > U2 is even more difficult now, and FK > FADC backwards > U2 is impossible. It’s really hard to punish projectiles with this now.

I’m really wondering what capcom’s design is for this ultra now, how is Guile supposed to use this? The best thing I came up with, is it’s supposed to be used like a “random ultra”. Just throw it out and hope it hits. Combo’ing into it now does laughable damage and it’s really tough to do compared to other characters because of the startup time. Capcom obviously doesn’t want you to use it this way.

*-FK damage nerf. *
Charge AA specials should do MORE damage than the dp-type specials, not the same. You at a disadvantage when charging for them. You can’t throw them out on a whim. FK should at least be buffed back up to 110/130/140. While you’re at it, why not fix the damage on Balrog/Blanka’s AA charge specials too, and normalize the damage on Feilong’s AA special(among others).

*-close B+HK damage nerf. *
Put it back to 120 damage. The buff you gave it isn’t really that good. Go ahead and revert the buff you gave it if you want.

*-backfist damage nerf. *
Put it back to 120 damage. Got a problem with backfist? hold down on the joystick. Forward isn’t the only direction on the joystick you know.

-Airthrow startup time.
You guys nerfed this but it still works. Put it back to 3f startup. The proper way to nerf this move would be to give it more startup time than most character’s j.MP/MK/HP/HK. The reason why Guile’s airthrows are so good isn’t their range, it’s their startup time. It would need about 7f startup to get it where you’re trying to nerf it.

11

-Restored to his super self with only half the damage nerfs he got.
-fix the flash kick so it don’t go completely in the other direction in certain situations.
-better cross up…
-some sort of answer to knock down without breaking him.
-I know I am pushing it for 2 frame links, but what the hell.

12

I agree with all of gilley’s comments. One thing I would love to see is his close b+hk having a bigger hitbox to actually hit people. If they made it an overhead, hehehehehehehe, well yeah.

The biggest thing that bugs me is the nerfs to his charges. Like it’s been said time and again, he has to charge for those moves and you can’t just mash them out. So whats the point of charge moves if they don’t have the incentive? You know what I’d like? Quicker recovery from wiffed Flashkicks. It seems like the other guys have all day to walk up to guile and punish a wiffed flashkick. I’m not asking for Ken like recovery, just something a little quicker.

Oh, and yes to two frame links.

13
  • Restore the current Guile back exactly to what he was in Super, with slightly lower dmg like 350-375 dmg with U2.
  • Then give him a crossup with more blockstun so SRK motion characters can’t just mash out a reversal upon seeing Guile’s crossup lk.
  • I think it’s fair to make FK autocorrect properly in AE if capcom is going to keep the non-fb characters as strong, even though it’s not gonna help Guile a lot.

This should be fair since there’s too much rubbish in AE. Guile’s regular zoning game doesn’t work in AE against a lot of the characters at all. He’s got only 2 specials and good normals and that is all and it was stupid of capcom to nerf him as he was perfect in super, except for U2 dmg. The meter and counterhit nerf is really stupid. Deejay can shoot booms and charge meter almost as fast as Guile and nobody complains about it. He even does higher dmg than Guile did in super. There are so many other characters that build meter faster than super Guile.

Buffing non-fb characters to make for a better game is a good improvement and adds various playstyles and depth to the game. But capcom needs to remember that the game is a Streetfighter title, and not KOF series. There also should be lesser situations for 50/50s in the game cos it’s too easy to just get in anyone’s face and force a gamble.

14

100% everything gilley said, but also: give guile longer range on his normal throw, and bump the damage up to 140. I want guile to have chun-li throws.

15

Gilley’s post shuts the discussion down, pretty much. It’s funny how all Guile users seem to want is common sense alterations within the context of what other characters can do in the game, but no one involved in making this game ever catches on to it. Match up wise, it seems like the further away from SF2 a character was introduced into the series, the harder the matchup it is for Guile simply because they’re all reverse engineered to deal with the original SF rules. Of the original 8 (or even 12 from CE), Guile has not evolved nearly at all to keep up; he’s practically a dinosaur. lol

16

I hate how yun has such good recovery time on his moves, it’s almost impossible to punish.
In 3rd strike at least you could parry yun’s lunging fist and then counter, but in SF4 it freaking has armor break! seriously what was capcom thinking?

17

How would you go about making c.LP - c.MP a 2 framer? Is it simply changing c.LP so it’s +5 on hit and +2 on block instead of +4/+1?

On a side note, I noticed that Guile has a c.LP that leaves you with less frame advantage than 80% of the cast using the same normal.

18

fuck I’m out of it today. meant to post this in a different thread…

19

id take one or the other of these two lists

Version 1

  • Ultra 2 startup back to Super staus / damage upped a bit ( but not as strong as Super )
  • more blockstun on short crossup
  • revert back to Super SB blockstun / hitstun
  • meter gain from SB back to Super
  • no more CH properties during SB animation
  • air throw start up back to Super
  • damage on FK’s back to Super
  • Super backfist damage
  • easier link from low jab to low strong

Version 2

  • Ultra 2 start up back to Super / damage stays AE
  • faster step kick that scores untechable knock down on CH ( shit if DJ gets that shit for his stand fierce why cant Guile?)
  • no more CH properties during SB animation
  • give him normal stun
  • meter gain is still AE / damage on SB upped a bit
  • Vanilla back fierce damage
  • instead of ground forward throw being a suplex, let it be a toss like his back throw

PS Capcom please fix all these unblockable / just defend setups on Guile, its fucking ridiculous

20

I don’t see Capcom undoing most of the AE nerfs for Guile. They want to discourage the whole hang back / throw booms / punish defensive playstyle.
So give Guile better offense already. Give him the tools to get in his opponent’s face and harass them there.

Fix moves (hitboxes, hurtboxes) so that they work like they’re supposed to:
[LIST]
[]Sobat kicks should get off the ground faster. Make them unthrowable.
[]Fix the hitbox on UDK so it hits all crouching tech attempts. Make it unthrowable.
[]Increase blockstun and hitstun on jump LK. (bonus if jump MK can crossup too)
[]Increase range on jump HK and cr MK.
[]Return airthrows to former 3F startup and range.
[/LIST]
Reduce startup and recovery on most of his normals.
Guile needs great normals (especially since his specials got nerfed pretty severely). The aim is to make it easier for him to link his normals together and create significantly longer link combos / pressure strings… This will help compensate somewhat as the extended blockstrings will help with meter gain. Reduced move startup & recovery will also give him a semblance of blockstun advantage again. Especially wanted:
[LIST]
[]Reduced startup on jabs (3F please?)
[]Easier cr LP, cr MP link
[]Speed up far HK to reach active frames earlier. I like mtsac kid’s suggestion for untech knockdown on CH.
[*]Make it possible to combo into Guile High Kick in more situations?
[/LIST]
Fix Sonic Hurricane so Guile has a useful Ultra again.
Since U1 is the high damage comeback Ultra, U2 could serve some kind of lockdown purpose.
I suggest fast startup (so that an opponent caught in a blockstring has to block the move), AE-level piss poor damage, but give Guile significant advantage on block.

but yeah, I’d love if they fixed his turning animation so his flashkicks would autocorrect properly. I’ve all but given up on this one though… It’s like the devs intentionally want Guile to absolutely suck against crossups.