I’d rather have more reach for cr.Lp, or quicker recovery
just make his sweep like it used to be in 2D games.
Next time you go out to the battlefield bring a squad with you; some fellow soldiers might help you get your point across.
120 dmg on SHP.
Guile needs to do more dmg.
What a troll post. Don’t think anyone hasn’t noticed your Guile bashing.
- don’t care about the overall damage nerf (FK, spinning back fist, etc). Guile is a defensive character, and most Guile players don’t know what to do when they close in. They have no mix-ups and can barely apply any decent pressure. They immediately start walking back and turtling.*
So a character built around punishment does not deserve any real damage? And good Guiles do apply pressure. If they don’t, it’s because a lot of times people do random stuff under pressure and it can put Guile at a disadvantage. Good damage puts the fear of God in people. I’m not sure why Capcom think Guile should have low damage, when characters like Makoto, Ibuki, and Sakura does a shit ton. And Guile has no mixups period. but you can’t blame this on Guile players, blame it on Capcom.
slightly more meter building for Sonic Boom (this is the least important buff, I don’t mind working for meter)
Unfortunately you can’t paint a house without a paint brush. No matter how eager you are to work to get a house painted. How can Guile “work” for meter, when he doesn’t even have the tools to do so?
Other than those two points. Your list is reasonable, except for the dodge, which is excessive.- Return Airthrow to SSF4 properties
- Autocorrect FK
- Faster Startup U2
- Faster meter building from SB
- More damage on st.HP
- Reduce window for CH when throwing SB
Optional:
- More damage to f+HP
- Better Hitbox on Sobat Kick (can hit low)
- Increase U2 Damage
- Better hitbox for Cr.HP
is there any reason why i feel like ex flash kick auto corrects better than any other flash kick? or is that just my imagination?
I think there might be some truth to that; just yesterday, I was in ranked vs. a Ken player, and he ex-hurricaned over me for a cross-up attempt while I was crouching. I let fly with ex. fk and caught him dead for the win as soon as he passed over my head; I was completely surprised because I was expecting fk to fly the opposite direction like it always does. Wish I had a way to record the match and post it so we can all verify that it actually corrected properly. Of course, the question then would be WTF would it work for ex and not regular? 
Gilley and all the rest of you. I am preparing a concise, and very specific post on Capcom Unity for Guile rebalance. The majority of what Gilley has said will cover it all but I would like for all of us to “VOTE IT UP” on Capcom unity so that it reaches them. This is the only way they will listen.
It will basically be what gilley has outlined as it covers all of the options. I will work on this tomorrow, but just a heads up. please support and VOTE up… join Capcom-unity.com
Thoughts?
Do you even know the definition of trolling? Just because you disagree with me, it doesn’t make neither of us a troll.
I’ve been using Guile since SF2, I just recently put him on hiatus in AE because after reaching 5k BP I got bored to death with his current nerfed version. So I can criticize all I want because I am speaking constructively out of experience and passion.
a) Guile isn’t just built around punishment, that’s why Sonic Boom has quick recovery, it allows him (at least in several games) to close in and apply relatively safe pressure. I never said that GOOD Guiles do not apply pleasure, I said most Guile players–meaning, the average Guile user does basically what I said. You can come up with many reasons as to why they do that, I strongly believe that in many cases it’s because they lack match-up experience, proper zoning, poking, block strings, frame traps, and most importantly, they can’t get a confident read on the opponent, so they decide to turtle because you don’t need quick reflexes, smart guesses, or ballsy risks, if you have more room to throw fireballs and then counter their jump attacks or whatever.
Improving the properties in his normals, will help Guile improve his mix-up game: a decent cross-up, his old RH sweep, etc…
Guile’s moves are relatively safe, and he can pretty much spam SB and go from there, so I personally don’t think that he needs to do a lot of damage. I’d prefer less damage scaling in his combos, instead of normals that do 120+. That’s just me. I’d rather have him improve the property of his normals, the priority, hit-box, and recovery of the flash kick, and a few more frames in his links.
b) Build meter with block strings, since he has no mix-ups. They need to improve his overhead, and his target combo.
I really think that a Dodge move would be superb because I don’t want him to get a new special attack. He needs to remain deceptively basic–The Man with two specials, if they could balance a dodge move, for instance, give it a few recovery frames, so if you mistime it, you can get punished like Gouken’s counter. And since he doesn’t deal damage in huge junks (weak juggles, weak FADC potential, etc…) I don’t think it’s excessive.
Just post the final draft in here, and the link of the Capcom-unity forum. I’m a member there too, so I’ll be supporting what we all agree upon. At this point, beggars can’t be choosers.
it’s not perfect by any means though. i feel like it goes the wrong way less than the other ones if you time it late. but i admit that could easily be complete b.s.
you have to think of what that kind of move would do across all match ups. would you be allowed to charge during the dodge animation? it could potentially become either useless, or on the other side of the coin, it could be so good that ryu/ken/sagat matches are heavily in guile’s favour.
i think a command grab (like fei…not like abel) would be an interesting avenue to explore. but again, that could be completely broken. i think one way of balancing it would be to give normal versions of the move extremely shitty range (like hakan), but give his ex version good range. or perhaps push his range away after the command grab so he can’t reach his opponent with lights, only with cr.mp.
SSFIV Guile was fine. Just needed to build less meter on SBs, and less damage on U2. CH, air-throw, and normal damage nerfs were dumb. U2 was nerfed way too hard.
ssf4 ae is all about non fireball characters, guile will still be ass in this future version, from vanilla to the version to come, just look at how fireball characters have been diminished, from godlike vanilla sagat and ryu to now godlike mixup-crossup characters like yun, viper.
Street fighter has evolved in the wrong direction IMO. Now, considering the original 8 characters, how many of those were on top 8 this past evo?
buffs or tools are needed to compensate or in order to deal with all the new characters. which most of them are grapplers in a way.
this.
i can’t believe what I am hearing… a dodge? a command throw? Guile doesn’t need new special moves. And if he did, they could have easily done it in the form of EX moves. I’ve said it many times before, one of Guile’s biggest flaws in sf4 is that his ex moves are a marginal improvement at best. every other character in the game has several ex moves that completely opens up new way to attack or act as a new move (ie. ex hurricane kick, ex wall dive, a plethora of moves that gives inv frames to moves that don’t have them normally, etc…) . meanwhile all Guile gets is a ex flashkick that has lk FK invincibility and a 20 point improvement over hk FK (back in Super) and the ability to juggle which only comes into play after an early lk FK, while ex boom gains 1 hit and faster projectile at the expense of slower start up and a much slower recovery. Isn’t sonic boom’s biggest defining feature the fast recovery and the ability to extend combo’s? why the fuck does ex boom lose both?
simply giving EX Flashkick 0 landing recovery frames would have been a easy example of a game changer by giving him both a juggle starter, and an escape tool.
anyways…
back on topic (or at least a more realistic approach)… its hard to find the right balance to keep us happy, and the haters quiet, but here is my take…
Return Guile back to Super on everything but the following:
-Sonic Boom
keep the meter nerf.
-Flashkick
standardize the damage. not many charge move AA that I can think of that does less damage against those in the air. now that the damage is pretty much the same as those, no reason to still have this handicap. I also hate doing a standard b&b’s on tiny characters and randomly only get 55 points of damage from the FK. the foot should be doing the most damage. of course, charge AA usually can’t be FADC’d… but Guile only has 2 moves, deserves the best of both worlds…
-Sonic Hurricane
they can keep the damage at 300, but increase juggle potential so you can do full damage after a FK or Super. with the range, the start-up, and safeness (assuming they put it back to 8 frames), it’s one of the best punish/anti fireball moves in the game, so I can see that 420 is too much damage. but at least with this change, you would still be doing the same damage in FADC combos as you did in Super, and probably more if you go from FK>Super>SH…
and a few buffs:
-cr. mp
a -2f from recovery would help lessen the impact of flashkick dmg nerf by giving him better combos
-cr. hp
100 damage AA. there are no other crouching AA normals with no sp/su cancels that received AA damage reduction. even the few moves which do receive damage reduction, none are more then 20 points(except Guile’s own cl. HP). why the hell does Guile lose 30 points on a key move that also trades all the time with jumping HK’s?
-udk
unthrowable. how come rose takes a tiny hop and is unthrowable, but guile is completely upside down and people throw him like nothing happened? Now think about it; that does not make sense! (insert chewbacca defense)
not as good as super, but I think it’s good enough.
Here’s my wishlist for Guile
[LIST=1]
[]Sonic Hurricane getting buffed up to 450 damage
[]Flash Kick damage back to the way it was before the AE nerfs
[*]Overall buff increase for all his normals
[/LIST]
also I honestly don’t see them fixing Guile’s turnaround speed, cuz I’m pretty damn sure that was intentional. scrubs cry so hard everytime their bad cross-ups attempts are stopped with charge AA’s, for some reason it’s less legit then auto-correct srk’s.
Yay, I am a stupid scrub 09’er! Much respect Gilley for taking the high road, how was punching people in the face at Evo?
Really, none of you see any issues with a properly auto-correcting lk.flashkick that is safe on block and retains armor break? please enlighten this stupid ass scrub 09’er. I will freely admit that blockstun on boom is something I don’t know enough about , hence the word “might”.
edit: I went back and read my balance changes post; yeah, I was talking more from a standpoint of “let’s assume the developers intended auto-correct fk shouldn’t work” standpoint and discussing from the POV of how to assess from strictly a SF4 playstyle. By saying he is supposed to be free to crossups I meant it appears as if he was deliberately designed to be free to crossups.
You said you wanted lk flash kick to be safe on block. Bison’s scissor kick is not comparable because it doesn’t have invincibility, it hits way slower, and it can be neutral jumped. The only way you could beat a safe flash kick is if you made it whiff, but half the characters in this game don’t have the walk speed to make that happen, and the characters who do would still lose in the corner. If the move is invincible on startup, has good range, and is safe on block, how are you supposed to beat it?
Flash kick was not safe in sf2 either.
It would work almost like a focus attack. If a character mashes two or more attacks, for instance, jabs into Mp or Mk, Guile would be punished. His dodge would also be punished by specials that have several hits in long frames (in technical terms–long active frames): hurricane kick, tiger knee, rekkas, Z’s PPP/KKK, Blanka’s electricity, legs, hands, etc… Even if you dodge a jumping attack on wake-up, the recovery frames would make it difficult to punish attacks that hit low/late in the jump. So you’d still have to guess or Option-Select.
The input would be :d:+:hp:+:hk: getting rid of the useless sunglasses move–which doesn’t even fit Guile’s personality. So yeah, it would allow us to charge, but it’s not like a Flash kick will allow him to get easy kills or FADC into ultra, which by the way, so many characters in the game can do specials (and even normals) into ultra in more ways than one. Also, FADC into ultra is a waste IMO because the damage of juggling into ultra 2 is pathetic. Not to mention that, even if it would break the charge, punishing with [b+Hk, cr.Mp] or [cr.Lp, cr.Mp] would give us a charge anyway.