Well it would help, Guile damage is hard to come by these days.
How about making GHK hitbox better, make it hit crouching opps, that would be nice to have in combos. It takes forever to come out so would be hard to abuse.
Or cl.SHK - make that better, less frames or hit cr. opps. - I’d like to use that move more.
Or make > mk sobat hit twice to break armor(or again, hit crouching opps better). - In general I would like to see his normals buffed, I dont like having to rely on 2 hit boom setups with the counter hit/meter nerf anymore.
Guile needs a new move, maybe have him pull his hair spray bottle and do some sort of sticky move that will leave opponents defenseless so that he can punish afterwards
If anything, Evo highlighted all the bullsh*t options the rest of the cast has, and even with some of the better recommendations on here, Guile would only be brought to within a reasonable level to deal with what the other characters are capable of… the other guys have tractor beams, safe moves that get them all the way across the screen, easy juggles into ultra… and we got a pair of f’ing Raybans. haha
I would not mind if they made boom recovery as long as a fireball, heck make the boom fizzle out like chun’s or sak’s, nerf his flash kick damage in half, gimp cr.hp so it is a crappy AA. Take all that away, and fill in the huge holes he has in the game; no 2 hit normal, a sweep that is garbage, a juggle that is worthless, a horrible crossing game, no move to move good distance, no answers for being crossed.
Guile is a defensive character in SF4, partially because he has the right turtle moves, but also because he lacks any offensive mixup as a option for aggressive play style. Get rid of a chunk of the defensive stuff and make him an offensive character with just an ok defensive game to fall back on.
Look at the direction Capcom is going with SF4, all the new characters added in Super were non projectile rush down type characters, in AE; 2 of the 4 new characters are pure rush down , I am going to argue that oni and evil ryu are more rush down than traditional projectile characters.
Capcom does not want to cater to defensive turtle play, everyone is asking for Super guile to come back, but that is not going to happen. I am convinced that is the case, so fit guile in with the narrative capcom wants to paint, make him a good offensive character with ok defensive options, the alternative is having guile the way he currently is; ok-good defensive and bad-horrible offensive.
Well… nearly got my head chopped off for bringing up auto-correcting or lessened recovery flash kick in the “official rebalance” thread. Apparently, people are under the impression that either of those would make him nigh-invulnerable and ruin his “free on crossup” status. Not holding my breath on the rebalance. lol
i didn’t agree with your first post, but i do agree with most of that. i think guile is possibly one of, if not the hardest character to balance correctly. imo the ideal way would be to buff his defence so you don’t lose to bullshit, with the tradeoff being nerfing his damage even further. having said that, they don’t seem to want him to be able to turtle properly (and i understand why to some extent), so i think it’s more likely that we will see offensive tweaks. i don’t think they will get rid of counter hit booms though.
seeing as yun has a target combo cr.hk, i don’t see why it would be such a big deal if they gave that to guile too.
Below is what I wrote in the main rebalance thread:
Guile:
Increase damage across the board
Rebuff airthrow startup and range
Change stupid 1 frame links: cr.lp > cr.mp should be a two frame link. It makes no sense that this is a 1 frame link. Balrog’s is similar, but he has comboability in other ways.
Reduce bazooka knee recovery and startup. Make it a viable anti low option
Redo the baooka need motion to either be back + roundhouse so that Guile can have a back charge during st.lk. It is an awesome footsies move not used because it’s impossible to cancel into special.
st.mp should put the opponent in a juggable state
Guile’s close standing FP > cr.mp should work on more characters. The combo does good damage off a good read, but only works pretty much on heavies. You can easily increase the hit stun or reduce the pushback so that it’ll work on many more character sizes
Utra 2 need faster startup especially if you’re going to keep the damage low
Guile should be able to link into his sweep without meter. If so many other characters can do it, then I don’t see why Guile can’t
Guile “rebalance” recommendations (not so much buffs as they are common sense tools/specs he should’ve had all along):
[LIST]
[]Credit to Gilley for this no-brainer fix to make flash kick work the way it should: -Fix the damn turning animation. * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA54bkIRvKc Desk discovered this wierd thing that happens if you record 1f on the training dummy. Notice what happens with Guile. He slides across the ground during this. That means his turning animation has translation in it. Ever wonder why Guile is the only character in the game that can’t autocorrect with his Flash Kick/AA special very well? This is why. If you’ve seen the hitxbox videos, you’ll notice these little nodes underneath the characters during any animation. These are the nodes that tell where the character is in space. At Sony for God of War, we call those zeroJoints. What I think is going on here is the animation has a tiny bit of motion in the zeroJoint. It’s probably a small oversight/overshoot from whoever animated it.
[]Shorten flash kick recovery time - lk. flash kick safe on block (except if it is at point blank range and not preceded by a blocked string), medium and hard flash kick unsafe on block. Basically, making it similar to the way Bison’s lk. scissors are safe on block.
[]NO COUNTER HIT PENALTY ON SONIC BOOM (or on DeeJay’s projectile) - Really, we already have to charge the damn thing to use it, and for all the people that complain about booms, it doesn’t win projectile wars, and every other character has ways around, over, under, or straight through projectiles now anyways.
[]Fix his meter gain on sonic boom - Dude has 2 specials, and he can’t rush people down viably. How else is he supposed to build meter? And without a legit GTFO/SRK mashable move, FADC’ing flash kick is one of the only legit ways to some times get out of trouble.
[]Better block stun for sonic boom and for lk cross up - Everyone complains about “turtling” Guiles. Give him these tools, and maybe we won’t be so apprehensive on offense.
[]Ultra 2 damage and startup fixed - 375 damage on U2, and either fix it’s startup, or give us flash kick to U2 without having to FADC into it (a la Balrog). Anyone that knows how hard it is to hit that combo wouldn’t complain.
[]Damage balance on flash kick - somewhere between super and AE since, again, we have to charge it to use it.
[*]Change some or all of his 1-frame links (particularly cr.lp>cr.mp)
[/LIST]
None of these would make him overpowered (keep in mind this is far from a complete list of reasonable changes). At the same time, folks complaining about how “boring” Guile is can be granted their wish of us being in their faces more often. Tack on the long wished for but never granted holy grail of a 3rd special (either a “traveling” special that moves Guile horizontally while attacking OR a command grab), and there you have it: a Guile that actually fits into modern SF4 gameplay that no one would have a reason to whine about. The shades were fun and all, but really, WTF were you thinking Capcom?
** Folks got bent on the safe lk.fk idea, which only occurred to me after messing around in SF anniversary edition the other night (as far as I can tell, it was safe in that game)… they didn’t like auto-correct neither. Personally can’t see why it’d be “broken”, especially considering all the other b.s. that’s made it into the game already. **
Nah, it’s just stupid scrub 09’ers like Guruprimo getting bent. I seriously hope Capcom takes a lot of these people’s suggestions with a grain of salt. They’re the reason why Guile is what he is in AE. Capcom probably listened to the scrubs who can’t handle Guile’s playstyle and wanted him nerfed to hell. He’s obviously never played any of the older SF games. Guile should not be free to crossups, cause he never was. He was only free to crossups in the SF4 series cause of this stupid bug and the FK doesn’t hit behind him. People just get used to this and assume that’s how it’s supposed to be. Guile’s FK has always autocorrected itself like every other character’s AA in the old games. It even hit behind his head in the older games. I could give a fuck if the FK didn’t hit behind his head, I just want him to be able to autocorrect like everyone else. It’s not just the FK that I want to autocorrect properly, it’s everything. SB, U2, U1, and his supers also do not autocorrect properly in SF4.
Oh noes!!! adding more blockstun to the SB would be too broken. Nevermind the fact it had more blockstun in SF4 and SSF4. Guile was completely broken in those games you know. All those tourneys being won with Guile.
Just put Guile back to his SSF4 version and be done with it.
I don’t care about the overall damage nerf (FK, spinning back fist, etc). Guile is a defensive character, and most Guile players don’t know what to do when they close in. They have no mix-ups and can barely apply any decent pressure. They immediately start walking back and turtling.
However, I do care about the nerf on Ultra 2. That attack was a beast in all SF games, in SSF4:AE both of Guile’s ultras just look pathetic. At least ultra 1 brings the pain, when it fully connects. Ultra 2 needs to deal 400+, they’ve already made it slower at start up, and he juggling properties are pathetic, almost no damage even though it requires more execution compared to the average “special-to-ultra juggle”.
Buffs:
[LIST]
[]slightly more meter building for Sonic Boom (this is the least important buff, I don’t mind working for meter);
[]faster recovery for Flash kick once he lands;
[]more priority for all Flask kick attacks (special, ex, super, ultra);
[]faster start-up of his overhead attack;
[]faster recovery of cr.Mk;
[]his b/f+Hk reverse flip kick should be an overhead (I wouldn’t mind if they make it even harder to link into s.Mp or cr.Mp, or simply linkable as a counter-hit or linkable in the corner);
[]make his forward dash cover a little more ground; and his back dash faster;
[]Get rid of his useless sunglasses input and give him a dodge move, somewhat like the dodge in S-groove in CvS2;
[]Speed up is forward walking pace;
[]Fix his auto-correction when doing the Flash kick/super/ultra;
[*]**Give him back his j.Mk cross-up;
**
[/LIST]
Nerfs:
I’m sure Capcom won’t have a problem thinking about nerfs for Guile.
