I thought c.LK spam was a good tick throw on block, but after messing around with it, it’s not at all. c.LK spam is only a threat if you get hit by it, since it’s easy to hitconfirm into his command throw. If your opponent tries to spam c.LK’s into his command throw, just block em’ and block cancel jump when he recovers from last one, and you’ll jump out before it comes out.
Yeah you can’t tick throw because there’s no blockstun.
I was exploring Sakumas crouching HK, which always kinda annoyed me because I would want a low kick on instinct and instead I’d get this weird move.
Turns out it’s pretty much a mini wave kick. It’s exactly like his wave kick special, except:
- it travels a much shorter distance.
- it does two hits instead of one
If only the last hit hits, it does less damamge than both LK and HK wave kick. But if you’re close and both hits hit, it does more damamge than even the HK wave kick.
As for the things that are the same, it has the same dodge for the first half of it (giving you a crouching hitbox while traveling forward), and also it has the same very small window of invincibility at the start. Seemingly the same startup time and things like that too.
In other news, Sakuma can tap up and then quickly go d+HP to do his dive-throw “without” jumping kinda. Instead he immediatly does the backwards/upwards flying he does at the start of every dive-throw, taking him up from the ground, then goes forward/downward to grab.
The startup is still somewhat bad though, with the first flying backwards thing.
And I was reading the IRC log, seems there was quite a bit of netplay going on. Awesome :lovin:
Too bad it wasn’t recorded.
Random thoughts of playing more of the game today:
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First time I tried using the ki meter charge to block attacks and wow, why haven’t I used this before? As Yin mentioned earlier, this builds up meter pretty fast, especially with the opponent doing some sort of multi attacks special. It’s only downside is that it you still take damage normally and the fact that when you keep holding the button as the opponent attacks, you’ll get clashed. If you haven’t mashed on the attack buttons quick, the fists icon will go to your opponent’s side and he’ll take up some meter from your own. Quite helps out characters with very useful supers, in general.
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Playing more of Tetsuya (short guy in the business suit) and he’s got everything that Rick lacks and almost has his better points as well. Only thing is that his throws do a little bit less damage than Rick and that he has less range.
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Seems like you could also use Rick and Tetsuya’s super grabs right after the opponent comes down from the apex of their jump (and while they’re still in the air by a bit of distance!). It looks REALLY awkward, but considerably useful.
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Is there ANYTHING worthwhile for Ryuu-un to use aside from bolting out projectiles? Doesn’t help that he can’t throw and his normals have shit range.
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Jin-Rai (dude with the short hair and army pants) QCB + HK seems to work as both a counter and a command throw.
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Andou (boxer dude in white shirt) f, b, d + HK x 3 punch-fest move seems to do a lot of damage and is really easy to link into. Shame that his d,u + HP earthquake punch move seems to oddly hit mid instead of low, could’ve help in giving him some more distance options when it comes to attacking.
Here is my analysis of the guy who uses the beads.
Suenaga Zen
Pros
- Good range on several of his normals
- Good AA with his Upper Diagonal
- Great range on the Far Necklace Attack
- Counters are fairly quick with good range
- Great keep away game overall
- Choke grab can take around 30% of the health bar when fully mashed
- Can take advantage of charge partitioning
Cons
- NO LOWS!!!
- Far Necklace Attack is vulnerable to block stun cancels. Very easy to block them and then dash in and grab or try to poke.
- Low comboability
- Normals that lack range aren’t worth it aside from fast jabs.
- Gameplay is very straightforward and he lacks good offensive tools
- His game is weak up close.
- A little slow
Normals
Standing LP - Quick with good range.
Standing HP - Slightly more range then standing lp. Decent speed.
Standing LK - Fast but no range. Hits twice.
Standing HK - Slower version of standing lk. Also hits twice.
Close LP - Fast jab. Good poke.
Close HP - Strong gut punch. Standing lp combos after it.
Close LK - See Standing LK
Close HK - See Standing HK
Crouching LP - Same as Close LP. Also a good close range poke.
Crouching HP - Two hit uppercut. Decent AA.
Crouching LK - A slower jab. No reason so use this over the regular jab.
Crouching HK - Similar to standing lp but a bit slower. Knocks down on hit.
Jumping LP - A jumping jab essentially. Stays out the whole duration of the jump. Can cross up.
Jumping HP - His best jumping normal. Has good reach and it’s fairly quick.
Jumping LK - A flying knee that stays out for the whole jump. Not worth it unless used to cross up.
Jumping HK - Jumping version of standing hk. His best cross up due to the damage.
Throws
F + HK - Suenaga chokes his opponent with his beads. This can do as much as 30% life when fully mashed.
F + HP - Suenaga uses his beads to toss his foe behind him. Does solid damage.
Specials
Far Necklace Attack: Back (charge) Forward + LK/HK - Great zoning tool. The LP version comes out faster and has less recovery. The HP version does more damage but has slower execution and slower recovery. This is Suenaga’s main form of damage. By keeping people out with this and doing chip.
Upper Diagonal Hit: DP motion + HP - Good AA. Comes out fast and his little cool down. Good priority and stuffs pretty much anything as long as the hitbox is out. The other main component to his zoning game.
Super
Explosion: QCF + HK - Creates a small explosion on the ground. Decent range and start up. Slightly less then his standing lp. Does about 50% damage to the life bar.
Counter Attacks
Normal Counter - Does a fast version of his standing lp. A good counter due to it’s speed and range.
Low Counter - Does a quick version of his jumping hp. Also a great counter due to it’s range and speed.
Combos
Suenaga doesn’t have much in the way of combos. Most of it will just be jump ins followed by a heavy or rapid fire normals.
General Gameplay
Keep away is the name of the game. Suenaga is a defensive master. His main tools are both his specials, Standing lp/hp, crouching hk, jumping hp and his throws at close range. He can keep opponents out with his normals and his Far necklace attack which is good for chip damage. If opponents try to jump in he can use his amazing AA special. It has very quick startup and almost no cool down with alot of priority. If your opponents get in then you want to poke them back out with quick jabs or try for some major damage with his choke throw. Unfortunately since he has no lows and is on the slower side he isn’t super threatening. He is mostly just annoying. It’s a chore to get past his walls and he can be very frustrating to fight against.
Overview
Solid defense with no mix-up potential or any real offense. He is good at what he does, but not much else. He will have problems once opponents get in and he has problems dealing out good damage due to a lack of lows, combos and offensive options. He is easy to pick up and play but his flaws become apparent at higher levels of play and some (no lows) are even apparent at low levels of play. I would say he is mid tier.
Also I stated that he can take advantage of charge partitioning. This game allows you to store your charge after you get it and then you can dash forward and do the charge move.
So the method would be hold back and gain your charge then dash forward and hold forward. Then as soon as the dash ends hit the button to do your special move.
I don’t know if it works with back dashes. Someone will need to test.
@Emblem: Good stuff, another one explored!
@Loler: I’m surprised no one else has messed around with Jin-Rai, seeing as he looks kind of badass 
Here’s a new vid from tonight, me versus EmblemLord again! I dare say these two are more interesting then the last four.
We played like four more matches(Emblem winning them all), but CamStudio crapped out on me once again when saving the file :sad:
[media=youtube]BTUK6r596rs"[/media]
Sakuma vs Nakai is one crazy matchup! They’re both so mobile.
This game is really fun to play online imo.
Also, we might want to discuss next week already, so we have some time to solve that. What do people want to play next?
Yeah, I thought someone would’ve posted something about Jin already. We’ll see though.
Online sounds kinda fun, but I wonder how lag is to be dealt with since I never tried this before. It’d be great if I’d play smooth against EU folks like in GGPO, despite not living there and all.
As for next week - I still stand by my nomination for Pretty Fighter. :lol:
My idea was to threaten someone not to block cancel because c.LK spam beats it, but since c.LK isn’t a cancel, people can block cancel jump on reaction if someone tries to link c.LK into command throw. If c.LK was cancel like c.LP, this mixup might work.
Am i the only one playing the twins? Ima special. I guess i should make guide of somewhat.
The Killing Blade is kinda fun: [media=youtube]VHacWZTRoLo[/media]
Also, quick heads up - the code for Momo and Super Takagi in the FAQ is wrong. Should be L, Left, Down, B, A, R on the title screen.
Momo’s ki attack is hilarious.
Personally I feel like Sailor Moon or that Natsuki Crisis Battle… But I’m seriously up for anything, everything on the menu looks good lol :lovin:
By the way, no one else curious about this one? Granted it’s a hybrid, as in a flight fighter. And it’s based on that weird shooter series with the muscly men and homoerotic parody, Cho Aniki. It’s very… odd.
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Good find about the code Loler. That FAQ has got a lot of errors in it!
Ok, good shit.
The way I see it if we can’t play all the characters it’s like you’re playing a different game.
The hidden characters might be broken though, but we better test.
Anyway: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=74280
I had no idea ZSNES could record replays. If any of you get some netplay going, record a replay. I can make it into a video and upload on youtube if you don’t want to hassle with that, a replay file should be small and easy to send me with like yousendit or something.
Edit: Killing Blade looks hella broken!
I would throw a vote towards playing an arcade game as opposed to another SNES fighter.
I just get the feeling a lot of arcade games are very well played, even the more obscure ones.
Still, I suppose there are some… Like:
[media=youtube]DzrW6Jcq6Ew"[/media]
Any suggestions for an arcade game?
I’m down for w/e.
If we really want to go arcade, I want to play blood warrior!
However, I’d rather try out cho aniki, that game looks too silly.
Oh, come on now… I know you want to play Hyper Dimension or YYH final :wgrin:
[media=youtube]b8kJZRWFX6Q"[/media]
Looks pretty cool. I wonder if Sniper is in it.
Edit:
Right? It looks outrageously silly. Gonna take a peek at Blood Warrior at youtube…
This game seems pretty obscure.
[media=youtube]RwHmpQBDWzw&feature=related[/media]