Most of those combos in that vid aren’t legit. Fuckin japs don’t know shit about high level YYH. lol.
OK at Emblemlord’s command heres the twins…
Pros
+Mixup, Mixup, Mixup!!
+2 useful supers
+Flying overhead resets can lead to easy dizzies.
+Good midscreen and close game
Cons
+Short height makes certain pokes less useful.
+Can easily lose to good keepway.
+Throw range is meh.
Normals
Standing LP: a really fast straight chop. Hits at the twins head level. Which isnt bad considering how short they are. A nice poke if someone is approaching. Will not hit certain crouching characters.
Crouching LP: twins crouch and make a fist and hit at a slightly upward angle. Decent poke.
Standing HP: a standing punch with a fist with a slight upward angle. Randomly stuffs some jumpins.
Crouching HP: Looks exactly the same as the crouching LP only slower and obviously does more damage. Use this for combos. Ive also had this randomly stuff jumpins.
Standing LK: a straight back mid kick. Same range as the standing LP. Hits lower, at about the twins mid section. Not as fast as standing LP.
Crouching LK: looks like Yun’s from 3s only **really **fast. Its range isnt that great but you can combo 3 of them into each other and can be used to comboed into certain specials if done fast enough.
Jumping LP: a angled downward punch. I dont use it very much. Looks decent for air-to-air.
Jumping HP: Exactly the same as LP only stronger. Again not my usual jump in.
Jumping LK: A nice downward angled jump kick. Can be used to crossup. Good for air-to-air.
Jumping HK: Same animation as j.LK only stronger. Your standard jumping for combos and whatnot.
Throws
f+HP: Twins jump on opponents head and knee drops them to the ground. Use this as your standard throw as it leaves you at a nice distance from your opponent that isnt very far but you arent vunerable to wakeups.
f+HK: Walks on the opponents face and kicks them to the other side of the screen. I wouldnt recommend this throw unless your in the corner then you can use this to turn the tide. The twins want to be near the opponent for most of the match.
Specials
NOTE: ALL D/B - F CHARGE MOVES MUST BE DONE AS SUCH. BACK TO FORWARD DOES NOT WORK.
(charge)d/b - f+HP: Twins do a flurry of punch while standing still then end with a straight punch. All an all a BAD move. I think it has a small amount of invincibility but no enough to be reliable with. Use sparingly if at all.
(charge)d/b - f+HK: Twins do rapid flying kicks while moving forward. Think Lee from NGBC without the downward angle at the end. Good for combos as the last kick always knocks down when it hits.
QCB+HK: One twin does a low kick first and the other hits mid right after. First hit MUST BE BLOCKED LOW. Use this in your BnB. Punishable on block while opponent is in the corner.
(charge) d-u+up: Twins dive up off the screen and AUTO crossup the opponent. Must be blocked standing. Does not knockdown, but can be easily hit confirmed into c.HP ,qcb+ HK combo. Or you can c.HP and perform again for another reset/crossup. If not walk up throw for mixup, if ur opp. gets wise. You will love this move, I guarantee it. On block it leaves you at about sweep distance and are not vunerable to a grab. Will not crossup if your opp. is in the corner blocking. Beware this move is not invincible on the way down. You can be hit out of it.
**Supers **
f-hcf + HP: Twins come out from behind one another and do a double dashing forward plam strike. It looks like Ryo’s Hao Sho Koken but the fireball does not release. Travels full screen.
qcb-f + HK: Dashes forward and can grab from a little over half screen. One twin grabs and the other cannon spikes the opponents’ face.
Counters
Normal: A standing HK but it has the animation of 2 legs. One slightly above the other.
Low: Does one knockdown hit of the d/b-f + HK kicks.
Combos
j.HK , c.HP, QCB+HK or d/b-f +HK
j.HK, c.lk, QCB+HK
(Crossover) j.lk, c.HP, QCB+HK
(Auto Crossup) D-U+HP, c.HP, QCB+HK
(Auto Crossup/resets/mixup) D-U+HP …
c.HP repeat
or throw
or qcb+ HK for low
or grab super.
Gameplay
RTSD. Say on your opponent. The farthest you want them is midscreen. Dont want someone with good keepway like Imawara at full screen. Its a bitch to get back due to your Flying Crossup being air smacked the fuck away. Can easily turn the tide with mixups into dizzy for a free super and the round. If someone is poking you, cancel the block into the Flying overhead. You are guaranteed to get in for your mixup start up.
Overall
I say the Twins are easily high-mid tier maybe even top tier. Once the mixup game starts it can be really hard to get them the hell of you. Then before you know it your dizzy. Good BnB, supers, and certain normals keep him a cut above mid-tier. Beware of keepway. Its not fun against someone with good zoning skills.
Some quick game play notes before a write-up. As far as block stun cancelling is concerned, I think it only works on normals and fb’s. When I try to do it on other special moves it doesn’t work at all.
This leads me to believe that the developers put the mechanic in on purpose, since the mechanic only works on certain attacks.
The same can be said for canceling into specials. A light attack can’t be canceled. It has to be linked. A heavy attack however, CAN be canceled.
I think some serious thought went into this fighting engine, it’s just that alot of things are broken. Block stun canceling is retarded no matter how much thought is put into put it does open the door for some mindgames? Can you bait a blockstun cancel so they eat a combo? Will they play it safe and block your first c. lp so you do a dash in grab? Will they call your bluff and cancel into a fast move and stuff your attack?
That’s what I call yomi my niggas.
Wake-up invincibility is bullshit BTW. It’s gotta at least be 1 whole second. Nonsense.
Whatever. Here’s a write-up.
** Nakai Touru**
Pros
- Great normals overall. Good priority since they are fast and Naiko uses claws
- Pretty good throw range
- Very mobile. Fast on and the ground with quick jump physics
- Has a corner infinite
- Great super
Cons
- Specials are bad overall. A few good qualities, but mostly they aren’t really worth using.
- Counters are awkward and the normal counter is only good vs ground attacks.
- Extremely reliant on universal options and basic gameplay.
- Harder to take advantage of option select counter due to his counters.
Normals
Standing LP - Quick jab with his claw. Fast and can be rapid fired.
Standing HP - A straight punch. Good range with decent speed. A solid poking tool.
Standing LK - A very fast front kick. Can rapid fire it and it’s a great poke thanks to the awesome range. Used in Nakai’s corner infinite.
Standing HK - High snap kick. Decent AA with pretty good speed.
Close LP - Same as standing lp.
Close HP - A quick claw uppercut. Really only good for the damage otherwise jab is a better option.
Close LK - A quick shin kick. Slower then his standing lk. No reason to actually try for this when you are up close. Just go for close hp or close lp.
Close HK - Same as Standing HK
Crouching LP - A quick crouching jab. One of his best pokes due to the it’s good priority, speed and range. Can be rapid fired as well. One of his go to moves at close range.
Crouching HP - Underhanded claw punch. Decent range and speed makes for a solid poking tool.
Crouching LK - Quick, but no range and can’t be rapid fired.
Crouching HK - Ok, for closing in since Nakai slides on the ground. Unsafe when used at close range though due to stun cancelling.
Jumping LP - Downward claw strike. Stays out the entire duration of the jump. No real reason to use this over his other jump attacks.
Jumping HP - Downward claw dive. Great range and priority. Very good for jump in pressure thanks to Naika’s fast jump as well. Has the same animation as his jumping lp when done in a neutral jump.
Jumping LK - Jumping side kick. Good downward angle. Makes it good for jump ins. Has a fairly large hitbox below it making it ideal for cross-ups. Stays out for the entire jump.
Jumping HK - Same as the jumping lk but more damage. Same great downward angle and the same great hitbox below. Even better for cross-ups due to the damage increase.
Throw
F + HP - Nakai picks up his opponent and tosses them behind him with his claw. A very impressive looking throw.
Charge Attack
It’s just a suped up running cut. Don’t use it. Charge attacks aren’t worth it.
Counter Attacks
Normal Counter - Nakai does a quick slide kick. Good against enemies on the ground, but terrible when done against a jump in.
Low Attack Counter - Nakai jumps into the air and does a jumping HP. The jump is a little too high and the attack itself is somewhat slow to come out. Plus he doesn’t land with the attack ,but cancels it and comes down with a flip. So the hitbox isn’t even out for that long. All in all this counter is quite bad and easy to avoid getting hit with.
Specials
Running Cut: Back (charge) Forward + HP/LP - Nakai rushes forward with a horizontal slash. knocks down on hit. LP version does less damage, goes a shorter distance, and has quicker start-up. HP version does more damage, goes a longer distance, and his slower start-up although both versions come out quick. A terrible move. Too easy to hit him during the dash. Useful only during combos.
Hawk’s Cut: Down + HP (Can only be done in the air) - Hits overhead. Has almost no horizontal range. Start-up is quick will attack speed is a little slow especially since Nakai is a very fast character overall. Safe on block and actually gives Nakai frame advantage which is good. Knocks down on hit. This move is ok, and since it’s safe/gives frame advantage it’s fairly spammable, but for aerial pressure it’s better to just do a jump in attack usually.
Falling Kick: Down + HK (Can only be done in the air) - Hits overhead. Knocks down on hit. Very good range on this since he locks onto his opponent and flies right at them He can’t get an opponent that is behind him or manages to get behind him during start-up. Safe on block and gives frame advantage. Start-up time is quite long. About half a second. He can be hit out of this fairly easily during stat-up and even once the attack starts if the opponents attack hits about his legs. The attack is fast though once it comes out which is great. Overall though the attack has some serious flaws which keeps it from being reliable.
Super
HAWK - Rolling Cut Attack: Back (charge) QCF + HK - REALLY good super. Nakai flies across the screen in a ball then repeatedly slashes his opponent and knocks them behind him. Does about 60% damage to a life bar. Hard to avoid and fast once it comes out.
Combos
J. hp/hk, s.hp, HP Running Cut.
J.hp/hk, c.lp x 2, s.hp.
J.hp/hk, c.hk.
c.lp x 3, s.lk.
In the corner or at mid screen - j.hp/hk, s.lk walk forward s.lk x N. Repeat till dizzy. If this combo was started at mid screen you will have to walk a bit after the first hit and each consecutive hit to push your opponent into the corner and keep them there.
Gameplay
Nakai lives and dies by his beastly normals. Nakai has quite a few of these basic but powerful tools at his disposal. S.lk, c.lp, s.hp, c.hp, and c.hk will be his main tools during footsies. J.hp/hk are great jump in attacks for initiating an offense while s.hk is a solid AA. His gameplay just revolves around using his normals to pressure and outpoke his opponent so he can get a hit in and lay on some hurt real quick. Using his mobility he can quickly get in and start applying pressure with jabs and then start basic guessing games between more jabs, slide kick or walk up/ dash up grab. His main problem is that his gameplay is very very simple. His special moves can’t be relied on. The aerial ones are the only ones you can throw out occasionally and those have noticeable weaknesses as well. His counters are also not too reliable. If you try to option select with him you may end up doing more harm then good to yourself due to how awkward his counters are. These weaknesses mean that Nakai must rely on his really strong normals and his great mobility to see him through.
Overview
A solid foundation with faulty work on top. That’s how you can describe Nakai. His great normals and awesome speed really push him through the tiers, but his other flaws keep him from ascending to the very top. His specials really aren’t good and neither are his counters. But still his foundation is so strong that despite his weaknesses he remains a strong character. I think Nakai is easily a high tier character and can hang with Imawara and the rest of the top/high tier characters. His normals and speed are just really great assets to his game.
I just played some games with a friend. We both lol’d when I got him with a corner infinite and then after that… gah. It was just terrible hahaha.
what about cyberbots for next week
I’d play cyberbots, that’s fun, I dunno how obscure we were trying to go.
We probably won’t finish the write-ups for all the other characters, so I’m just going to put out a tentative tier list based on what we know. Besides the mid tiers and below have very straight forward games and they aren’t really complicated. They have less options so it’s not a huge loss that the lower characters may not get a write-up IMO.
Top Tier - Imawara, Sotogawa
High Tier - Ryuutaka/Torataka, Nakai, Sakuma
Mid Tier - Andou, Suenaga, Super Takagi, Jin-Rai, Tanaka
Low Tier - Takagi, Rick, Chiyo
Unplayable Garbage Tier - Ryuu-Un
I’m pretty satisfied with this list. Obviously everyone else’s will be a tad different. For the record Takagi is pretty bad. Bad normals overall, with decent counters. No range on his lows but he has a decent AA special. None of his other special moves are too noteworthy outside of combos. His super is pretty good though.
Super Takagi has a better jab, a better s.hk, a projectile and a better AA special. He also gets two supers. This is enough to boost him to mid tier.
Chiyo is bad. She has two command grabs that do good damage, but her normals have no range at all which really hurts her game and none of them are that impressive anyway.
All 3 of these characters have corner infinites BTW. *shrug
I messed with Jin-Rai for a bit and he didn’t impress me. He can do his normal counter as a special but it has noticeable recovery time when you do it. His other specials seem to only be good in combos and his normals are pretty average.
I haven’t messed with Andou but lilman did and told me that he felt pretty average so I stick him in mid tier.
Ryuu-Un has no lows and no throws. Useless trash.
I played vs Yin’s Tanaka and wasn’t impressed and I don’t feel like he can fuck with the top 5 at all.
I think we can all agree that Imawara, Sotogawa, Ryuutaka/Torataka, Nakai and Sakuma are the best characters in the game.
Imawara and Sotogawa are the top 2 and I don’t think anyone can really dispute that. After that I think you could order it however you want based on your own perceptions.
So, what are everyone’s thoughts? What are your own tier lists? What do you guy’s think of mine?
Personally I looooove Cyberbots (Riot ftw!) :lovin:
But it’s not very obscure(being a Capcom game and all), it even has it’s own wiki page on the SRK wiki, detailing the mechanics.
Netplay would have been nice though, it’s on 2df.
@Emblem: I agree with your tier list, both because you’re way more qualified than me to make one but also because it’s close to my own experiences. Imawara is truly powerful.
As for Tanaka, I might add that my Tanaka is pretty sucky… I didn’t even use his charge down move, because I remembered the wrong input. And even if I had pressed the right button, my execution for that one move is horrible for some reason. It’s a pretty good move though. At close range it’s one normal hit and then one crossup hit after, and it’s quite fast.
But still, even with that I don’t think he’s good enough to hang in the high tier, so I still agree with his mid placement.
As for corner infinites, during our matches it only really happened once. Emblem caught me in the corner :razz:
Still, unless you get dizzy and finish with a super, an infinite can only do so much damage in this game, since you can get knocked out and rise several times in one round. The blockstun thing is way more troubling, but since Emblem found out that it only works at certain times, it seems a bit less broken.
By tomorrow night, we are to have chosen a new game btw.
I nominate Suikoenbu
Not much to disagree about here. Imawara is indeed that darn good from the times I played as him. Tetsuya (Sotogawa) is likely there because of him being a grappler that actually has decent mobility and fast attacks, unless I’m wrong or missed something earlier.
As for the next game, I watched that vid Yin posted for Cho Aniki and thought that it might be fun to go with that instead. Pretty Fighter can wait for another time.
Sotogawa has damn good specials. Overhead dive kick that hits up to three times and is very safe and he can easily take advantage of stun cancelling with his command grab. Plus arm breaker can do up to 50% damage when fully mashed.
As far as normals go, his are pretty average but his specials simply make up for it.
I’ll probably do a write-up on Sakuma later since he is the only high tier that doesn’t have one.
Ah yeah, I concur about his specials.
Anyhow, time for a Jin-Rai (short hair + army pants guy) writeup!
Normals
LP
Standing: A simple jab. Nothing too special to talk about, except the fact that it can link to itself several times like a large number of character jabs in the game.
Crouching: Same as the stand LP, but he does it while he’s crouching. Pretty much the same properties as well.
Jumping: Does a down-forwards punch. Does small damage and you’re better off using jump HP, as it looks the same and does a bit more damage.
HP
Standing: Just a regular straight punch. Covers around a character space. When done close, he does a two hit uppercut with his palm. The most likely normal to link his specials with, outside of the counter.
Crouching: Does an uppercut motion. Short range considering his size and the screen width, but can be good to bait in late jump-in attacks.
Jumping: Same as the jump LP, but does more damage.
LK
Standing: A swift short kick. Hits low instead of the usual mid-level. Can be linked to itself twice in the corner and doesn’t have enough range.
Crouching: Extends his right foot for a little bit for a short kick. Has the worst range out of his entire list of normals.
Jumping: When done straight up, he raises his left leg in a 45 degree angle. Good for comboing stuff in the corner and with it’s hitstun, you could link in a far HP into his HCF + HP.
When done as a jump in, he just raises his knee forwards. Not bad range. Can be used as a crossup attack when done late and after almost reaching the end of his jump. Much easier with bigger characters like Rick, however.
HK
Standing: Does a forwards kick when done far. Has the most range out of his far normals. When done close, he raises his leg up to strike upwards. Decent speed and upwards range, making it likely to use to counter jumping opponents close by. You’re better off using his close HP instead if you want to use it for combos, though.
Crouching: A roundhouse kick for a knockdown. Nothing too special.
Jumping: When done straight up, he does the exact same animation as his straight up LK, except with added damage.
When done as a jump in, he extends his left leg forwards. Compared to his jump-in LK, you can do this earlier if you want to use it as a cross up attack. It’s range also makes it most likely to use as the ideal jump normal to start his combinations.
Counter Attack
b + any attack button: Does the exact animation as his QCB + HK. See special moves for more about that one.
Charge Attack
Hold any attack button: Does the exact animation as the last hit of his QCB + HP - a straight punch full of energy, except going for a distance of half a screen. Like the other charge attacks in the game, when your character is fully charged and strikes, it causes the opponent to go into their dizzy animation after being hit.
Throws
f + HP: He holds the opponent and tosses them to the opposite side. Average all the way.
Specials
QCB + HP: Does a multitude of energy punches, with the last knocking the opponent down. When done outside the corner and close to the opponent, you could only land all of the hits except the last. Doesn’t help that he recovers fairly slowly after it’s done and you’re not guaranteed to get all the hits in depending on the distance you are from the opponent. At best, it could be used during corner combos only. A rather blah special.
QCB + HK: Holds his arm out as he does a circular motion, as if wielding a nunchuck, for about a second or so. If anyone attacks with a mid or a high level attack, they’ll get tossed to the other side. When done close and if the opponent is in the range of the circular motion, it can also function as a throw. It can’t counter low attacks, throws or projectiles, though oddly for the latter it can work when the character does the start up animation. The throw isn’t unblockable, either. Does ok damage.
HCF + LP/HP: Does a dash attack with his elbow. If he hits, he’ll strike with both his palms extended forwards. LP goes for about 1/4ths a screen, while HP goes for 3/4ths. He obviously recovers a bit slowly when using either version, but this is the only possible special that can be reliable for combinations from almost anywhere, thanks to its animation speed and easy linkability. An interesting property for this move is that it passes through projectiles - but aside from that, you’d likely be using this most for combos.
Ki Attack
HCB,F + HP: Jin powers up and shoots out an energy canon-like projectile from his left arm, that goes for about 3/4ths a screen. Startup is fairly fast compared to other ki attacks plus the distance makes it one of the more useful ones.
Random thoughts
While Jin doesn’t seem to be a bad character by any means, he doesn’t have any qualities that makes him special compared to other stronger characters in the game. Average normals, not so great specials and a decent ki attack defines him as a mid-tier through and through.
I’ve been at my parents for some time, so I havn’t had much time to check SRK, but I think it’s time we start a new game… It’s damn hard to decide one though. How about the next one to post can decide? I think it’s whatever for most of us, but I don’t think I’m cut out as the “leader” who decides these things… 
Also, opinions on Ossu!
My own: Surprisingly “modern” for a SNES fighter. Although not without it’s flaws, I enjoyed it a damn lot. Especially the netplay matches against Emblem. I felt it was decently balanced for a game of it’s time. At least a handful of the characters seemed “competitive”. Some characters seemed completely useless though. The game had some unique aspects to it.
It was also rather nice graphically.
All in all it’s up there with my favorite SNES fighter Gundam Wing.
Score: 4/5 :lovin:
Yin I think lilman and ClearSky had a game in mind.
I guess they’ll post about it later.
I think we should do Double Dragon V.
Been messing with it and it’s kinda bad and I don’t think it has seen any real play at all.
For Ossu: Game is surprisingly fun despite a few apparent flaws (some characters like Ryuu-un seem incomplete and the jab infinites are two biggest offenders). Has a diverse cast of characters and the round system is rather unique. I wouldn’t mind giving this a try online sometime if anyone’s still interested in it. 
Double Dragon V…eww, that was one of the worst. But for the sake of SCIENCE (and boredom, comedy, etc), I wouldn’t mind giving it a go for this week, though I thought we’d go for Cho Aniki.
I think it’s safe to say that we all liked Ossu!! Karatebu alot and I’ll definitely keep playing it in the future with you guys if you want.
okay heres a suggestion for next game. Battle Master
[media=youtube]qj-mDyP6yqs[/media]
or this wierd shit of a game: Matsumura Kuni Hiroden
[media=youtube]r-mg1HJ5Xv8[/media]
I’m down for some battle master.
so are we getting a new game or what?
Yeah Yin, call out the next one, since you started the thread. What are we doing?