Depends on who you’re playing against. sotogawa (suit guy) can grab just about anything out of his block cuz his throw moves forward so quickly, also when you cancel into a special from the block it stops the push momentum, so if you do it fast enough it’s usually able to catch them anyways.
Ah, then fuck it.
Nothing is safe.
Just jab jab jab jab your way to victory. lol
I agree, there is a bit of random depth to the game, although the juggle system is a little off and not consistent. I was even on the road to writing a faq for the game years ago but stopped when I got too lazy to write out the effects of certain specials. 
Supers becoming cinematic fatalities at low health and after dizzying the opponent is pretty awesome.
Most likely not. It says the source is from Nico Nico.
Jeez, I can’t keep up with this thread. I’ve rarely touched Ossu.
While practicing my stunblock-cancelling thing, I met the big dude and I realized he might not be the best to practice against - since he’s a grappler he has a ton of unblockable command throws. Not sure where this puts him in the tier list though, has anyone tried him?l
Also, does the blue trenchcoat guy has any landing recovery on that shoryuken? The computer is spamming them like crazy. He seems very good, with that and the fireball.
Edit: Feels like he’s got fucking invincibility at the start of the fireball, it’s really annoying 
But Sakuma has a lot of options against his fireball: jump over+divethrow(This seems to be able to get him during that startup too, maybe. I’ve thrown him before the fireball was properly formed), wave kick under(tricky timing needed though) or wall kick over it. Depends a bit on the distance, divethrow is the best option overall, but needs mid or small distance. Wave kick can be used at a bit more distance, but too much and you whiff badly. Wall kick works from a long distance over the fireball, but if this distance is too long blue-trench will recover and be able to punch you out of the kick, so not always that smart of an option either.
Edit2: Anyone notice ki-block “blocks” both high and low?
Who, Rick? From the little I tried of him yesterday, he really reminds me of Big Bear in FF2/FFSP. Probably have a better impression of him later on.
And after playing more of Nakai, I concur with everyone else about his normals. They seem to be better than his crappy specials by eons.
Here’s my write up on…
Imawara Takeshi
Pros
- Has a projectile. Energy Blade Dart (EBD).
- Great normals overall. Notably, his crouching hk is very fast with alot of range, and his standing hk is a good anti air.
- Has a jab infinite in the corner as well as a redizzy combo.
- His counter attacks are very good due to their quick execution. His normal counter is a fast upward swipe. His low counter is a low jump kick.
- He has good Anti-air options thanks to his normals and his Energy Blade Upper (EBU)
- Has good walk speed and dash speed which is good for footsies.
Cons
- His projectile is somewhat easy to avoid/react to since he does an elaborate hand motion before launching it.
- His projectile is easy food for Impact Defense. This way his opponent won’t take much damage or get knocked down but they will still get alot of ki.
- His specials leave him open to retaliation on block aside from his EBD.
- Opponents can time a back dash to avoid EBD’s in the corner. this works because back dashes have invincibility frames.
Normals
Far Standing LP - A very fast chop. Decent range. Not alot of knockback so good for pressure strings. Good for combos too.
Far Standing LK - Good range. Decent poke.
Far Standing HP - Downward swipe of the arm. Good priority.
Far Standing HK - Good Anti-air. Decent range and speed.
Close Standing LP - See Far Standing LP
Close Standing LK - A quick knee to the gut. Quite a bit of pushback on this making it a subpar choice for combos/blockstrings.
Close Standing HP - A quick four finger thrust to the torso. Lots of pushback on this. Hard to link into as well. Good to use after a jump in for a combo.
Close Standing HK - A strong front kick. Pretty standard. Good for jump in combos.
Crouching LP - Same as standing LP. Still fast and very good.
Crouching LK - Quick, but not quite as chainable to itself as crouching lp. It has slightly more range though.
Crouching HP - Very fast upward swipe. Good priority. Knocks down on hit.
Crouching HK - Insane range. About half screen. It’s also extremely fast. A vital tool during footsies. Knocks down on hit.
Jumping LP - Quick downward chop. Hitbox stays out for the entire duration of the jump.
Jumping LK - Quick jump kick that stays out for the entire jump. One of Imawara’s cross-ups.
Jumping HP - Strong downward chop. Hits twice. Good for hit confirms in combos and good for mindgames. An opponent may block the first hit then block low out of instinct and eat the second hit. Then Imawara gets a free combo. If you do the attack late there is enough hitstun to dash in after the j.hp and then go for some jabs followed by a c.hk or an EBU.
Jumping HK - Stronger version on his j. lk. This is his other cross up. Does more damage so this is the main one that will see use.
Throw
Imawara picks his opponent up and throws them across the screen. Great for resetting his zoning game.
Special Moves
Energy Blade Dart (EBD): QCF + HP - Only one version of this using HP. Execution is decent and so is recovery. The projectile has fast travel speed. It knocks down on hit and puts the opponent back in the corner even if they were right next to Imawara when they got hit. Great move for controlling the opponent at mid range and long range.
Energy Blade Upper (EBU): FDU + HP/LP - Two versions. LP version and HP version. LP has faster start-up, does less damage and doesn’t go as high. HP version has slower start-up, goes higher, farther forward and does more damage. This move is fast, but has no invincibility frames. It’s unsafe on block so it’s main use is in combos and as an AA.
Energy Blade Combo (EBC) Down (charge) QCB + HP - Only one version using HP. Does many hits for some solid damage. Unsafe on block though and unsafe on hit when not in the corner. The final hit will only connect in the corner. So it’s only real use is in corner combos and the corner re-dizzy infinite.
Super
Powerful Energy Dart - Just a super strong projectile. Travels very fast. Does about 80% life in damage. You won’t hit with this unless it’s in a re-dizzy combo. If you have you chance then go for it.
Counter Attacks
Normal Counter - A very fast upward swipe. Knocks down on hit. Very good due to it’s speed. Very easy to stuff attacks with.
Low Attack Counter - The attack used when countering a low attack. It’s a fast low jump kick. Also very fast like the normal counter with good range and just as good at stuffing attacks as the normal counter.
Charge Attack
Imawara does Sol’s Bandit Revolver. the amount of ground he goes over depends on how much charge you have. Fairly safe on block, not that it means much in this game. Doe chip damage on block, and will dizzy on hit when fully charged. Not worth it though. Takes too long to build full charge and takes alot of ki. Not worth it to waste ki on this.
Combos
J.hp, c. hk
J.hp, dash in s.lp, s.lp, s.lp, c.hk
J.hp, dash in s.lp, s.lp, s.lp, Energy Blade Upper
Cross up deep with j.hk, c.lp, c.lp, c.lp, Energy Blade Upper
Cross up deep with j.hk, c.lp, c.lp, c.lp, c.hk.
In the Corner - J.hp, s.lp walk x N repeat till dizzy. Then repeat at the beginning or KO with super.
In the Corner - J. hp, c.lp, c.lp, c.lp, c.lp, c.lp, Energy Blade Combo. Do another rep then finish with Super or repeat combo until KO.
Long Range Game
Not too much to think about here. Imawara’s options are simple and obvious, but still effective. You want to throw out EBD’s to force a reaction. Be mindful that opponents will Impact Defense at least a few of them before trying to get in. You can bait that or draw it out with a EBD and then attempt to dash in and mix-up between poking and grabbing to punish them for it. Since Imawara does all that arm movement before launching EBD’s it’s kind of easy to react to them. Mix-up EBD’s with s.hp to mess with their heads. If your opponent ever eats an EBD then they get knocked back to the corner and they have to start all over again. Also because of Imawara’s projectile game he can actively look to get his redizzy infinite, by pushing his opponent into the corner and pinning them down. This makes him extremely dangerous. Be aware that opponents can back dash to avoid EBD’s in the corner due to invincibility frames on the back dash.
Mid Range
At this range Imawara can now actively control the pace of the match. He has several tools here. His EBD’s are still a strong tool, but now he has his AA options to shut down jump ins as well as his c.hk. By messing with the range by walking back and forth Imawara can really mess with the spacing. You can dance around at this range and force a guess or score a knockdown, which will reset the long range game. Mix in s.hp’s with EBD’s to keep your opponent guessing. If they jump late after he throws an EBD then an AA is pretty much free. He can do s.hk, EBU, a counter move if they attacked, dash back to reset spacing and continue zoning, or even jump straight up/jump back with hp or hk. All of these are viable options. C.hk is strong because it reaches so far and it’s extremely fast. His opponent must be on their toes lest they eat this move and get knocked down. This makes them want to block low and that way Imawara can score chip damage with EBD’s and dictate the pace of the match. And since you can cancel the attack within it’s active frames even if it doesn’t hit, you can make a very tight zoning game by cancelling into EBD’s from empty c.hk’s.
Close Range
Imawara is still very strong here. His jabs are really fast with good priority. He also has his great counters for defensive purposes. He has two good cross-ups as well and his jumping hp which hits twice. This move is a good set up for tick throws or combos. Since Imawara’s jabs are so good opponent’s will have a hard time hitting him with reversals. Once he is outside of range he can dash back or jump back to avoid retaliation. If a jab hits he can just mash on jab and then end it with an EBU or a c.hk. He can also throw which is good for getting characters out of his face and forcing them to deal with his zoning.
Option Select Counter
Because of the way counters work, it’s easy to abuse them. You only counter when you hit back and an attack button when your opponent is attacking. So if a character has good normals and good counters it really doesn’t matter which move comes out. Either a fast counter or high priority normal. The most common scenario is when an opponent jumps in. Imawara has a really good AA with his s. hk. But his normal counter is a good AA too due to it’s speed. So in this scenario you hit back and hk. Three things could happen. You will block if you timed it late and your opponent attacked. You will throw out s.hk if the opponent did nothing. Or you will counter attack if they did something. The odds of getting out unscathed are heavily stacked in the favor of the defender. Imawara takes full advantage of option select counter due to his great normals and great counters. This also works when you hold down back as well. So it’s great for characters with really good ground pokes and footsies. This also applies to Imawara.
Overview
He’s got it all. Great normals, great defensive tools, good zoning, awesome combos and he takes full advantage of the gameplay engine with option select counter. His only real weakness is that there are several ways to deal with his projectile, but he has more then enough ways to make up for it. And his projectile is still a useful tool in his gameplay. Overall I would say as a character he is extremely solid with a great foundation.
I feel that Imawara Takeshi is top tier and right now he is definitely a contender for the spot of the best character in the game.
We’re not even half the week in, and it’s already getting quite advanced. So amazing :lovin:
That option select is something to look for in characters now for sure.
Also, if the AI is a bitch with Imawara, I don’t wanna think about a competent human player is capable of
I’m a little concerned that we’re having too good of a time with just this one game to make this a weekly thing. Unless there’s a sudden sharp drop-off in interest, maybe there should be a TIME EXTEND! to two weeks.
Me and EmblemLord got some awesome matches in over zsnes just now! I recorded four of them. The first three we played were lost due to software error though :sad:
As soon as I get them up on youtube, you’ll be able to se me getting owned four glorious times 
I was also owned three times before that, resulting in 7 - 0 to EmblemLord
In other news, this game is intense to play against a real opponent. I love it.
@Karnov: Might be an idea, we’ll see when we get there. Some people are probably itching for something new by then, and we have so many to play. But then again, we will tire quicker of some games quicker than others because of brokeness.
Matches are up!! :woot:
The sound is a bit screwed up, but it was like that in ZSNES for me when netplaying. And the mouse is in the screen, but whatever. It was invisible while playing.
We used ZSNES(v1.42 on zsnes.com, although it says 1.43 in “about”) since kaillera with snes9k was too laggy(ELord couldn’t fireball for example), and snes9x normal netplay just didn’t work. ZSNES was fantastic on the other hand.
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Post fight analysis: I really need to stop doing random jumps to divethrow, that shit is predictable and reactable and I get punished sooo many times for it. Have to train away my desire to jump in. Especially against a character with such fierce anti-airs.
It was massive amounts of fun though, this is a matchup I feel is really exciting. So many ways to try to get by the fireballs.
I’m gonna start typing up a sotogawa info page here and edit it as I go,
Here goes:
Sotogawa (suit guy)
Pros:
Extremely long range command throw which can grab limbs and duck certain moves
Kick special kills fireballs
Really good reversals (thanks in part to guard cancelling)
Really good option selects
Corner infinite
A number of throws, one of which has very high damage and none of which build ki for the opponent
Random ass guy in a suit
Cons:
Generally middling damage
Short range on normals
No good anti-air, air-to-air or jump in game
Normals:
LP: A straight punch, kind of bad range, fast
HP: The same straight punch, but slower and with more damage
close LK: A goofy looking shin kick, pretty fast
far LK: a straight kick, about the same range as his punches
close HK: Same shin kick as the LK, slower, more dmg.
far HK: A roundhouse. Little more range than the other standing normals, can be used for anti-air but it’s not great.
2LP: A downward angled crouching jab. Really fast and easy to combo out of. Spam this.
2HP: A kind of silly looking double fisted punch along the ground. Decent range, knockdown.
2LK: A fast little pokey kick. About as good as the crouching LP.
2HK: His longest range normal by a little ways, it’s your basic sweep. Comes with knockdown. Use it for footsies.
j.LP: A downward facing punch, kind of crappy range, not that great.
j.HP: See j.LP
j.LK: Pretty standard j.K, again faces at an angle downwards
j.HK: Double leg dropkick thing, his best aerial, but still not fantastic.
Throws:
close 6HP: Grabs the opponent and does a release suplex, tossing them back across the screen
Close 3HP: His best throw. He grabs the opponent around the ankles and takes them down into an armbar. You can mash this throw for over 30% damage if you try hard enough.
Close 6HK: His strangest throw. He grabs the opponent for like a quarter of a second and it looks kind of like he headbutts them or something but it’s kind of too fast to really tell.
Close 3HK: Grabs the opponent and performs a german suplex/backdrop sort of thing. Keeps the opponent in the same direction as they were before.
Specials:
4(charge)6+P:
Grab special. This can not be guarded or (as previously thought) ki guarded, it can only be whiffed. This will grab most anything if you cancel it out of a block. It moves forwards and grabs very quickly, so even moves that hit with a lot of pushback can be grabbed with this off of a block. Also, it beats out a lot of high-hitting moves, as he enters kind of a low-down running state while performing the move. Also, you can combo into it, unlike capcom games. The hard punch version goes about half the screen, the light punch goes a little less.
1(charge)6+P:
His kick special. He jumps forwards in a relatively low arc doing sort of a drop kick. It will hit a block 3 times, but it will knock down on the first hit if not blocked. Hits overhead. This move is useful for one main reason: it punishes fireballs extremely well. If not for this move, sotogawa would get completely locked down by a decent projectile game. As it stands, this move hits way faster than a normal jump in, and goes over fireballs with relatively easy timing. The HK version goes almost full screen. The LK version goes a shorter distance, but seems to go into active frames earlier.
Super:
HCF+HP:
Some fire shoots up out of the ground, snakes or some shit, and sotogawa pauses for a second before rushing across the screen, grabbing up whoever’s in his way, and delivering a wicked flying backbreaker. Does over 1/2 life in damage, and will kill the opponent permanently, not allowing a ki revive. Unfortunately, it’s too slow to combo, and really too slow for most situations. You can guard cancel it as a reversal against slow moves, but nobody should probably be doing that anyways. Kind of an unfortunate super.
I’ll post up more strategy-type stuff later.
Sotogawa’s c.LK easily punishes people who glitch out of blockstun. I’m not sure if his c.LK can combo into his command grab, but if it does it would be a good punish/mixup against blockstun canceling. It’s a pretty good tick throw too so anyone without a good reversal is eating that grab.
Yeah…this technique pretty much killed my interest in this game.
I mean despite all the shenanigans and engine abuse I was doing in our matches, this game is ALOT of fun.
Very fast paced due to super fast dashes and the Impact Defense makes for a fun time since it rewards risk taking.
So you who is all playing this online? I’d like to try it out see what funny stuff the game has as well.
Was it mentioned earlier that throw and command throws don’t give any ki meter to your opponent?
Anyway, on to Rick (the big burly guy in the jacket, first character in the bottom row). Feel free to correct any mistakes I made.
Normals
LP
Standing: Standard jab. It’s possible to link a couple from outside of the corner and 3 of them in it. His db, f + LP/HP can be comboed into it easily, as well.
Crouch: Same as standing.
Jump: A downwards punch. Looks exactly like his jump HP but does less damage.
HP
Standing: Far he does a swing with his arms for a bout a character space. Close, and he’ll do a quick 2 hit standing uppercut - basically, one of Rick’s two only anti-air options.
Crouch: Down forward punch. Same range as the standing and does good damage.
Jump: Another down-forward punch. Does a bit more damage than his jump LP.
LK
Standing: A short and lazy looking kick. Has noticeable pushback and not that much range.
Crouch: A swift low kick. Very much the same as the standing LK when it comes to the properties of the move.
Jump: Waves his entire leg forwards. Good for crossup purposes, but you may want to use the HK version since it does more damage and has better priority.
HK
Standing: A swift boot to the shins. Has a bit more range compared to his other normals.
Crouch: Same as the LK, but now knocks the opponent far.
Jump: Same as the LK one, but with added damage.
Extra throws
Rick has 3 of them:
F + HP: Throws them up and then does an uppercut. Does the most damage out of his extra throws.
F + HK: Multi-hit bear hug. Does little damage and doesn’t actually knock the opponent down, but pushes both him and the opponent backwards after it’s done.
DF + HP: Raises the opponent up with both his fist and then throws the opponent in the opposite direction. OK damage.
Counter
b + Any attack button: Rick just raises his entire bulk upwards while grunting. Due to his large size, it can also work as an anti-air and much like any othe counter in the game, another way to have an instant wakeup attack after being knocked down.
Specials
charge db, then f + LP/HP: LP goes about a character space, HP goes half a screen. Decently fast for both versions and can be linked into. I believe that both versions are not safe when blocked.
HCB + HP: Command throw. Rick grabs the opponent and throws them helluva far while laughing. Throw distance is farther than his DF + HP and just like it, it’ll give you some breathing space to either build up some of that ki meter for his super or think up of another way to mess up your opponent.
HCB + HK: Another command throw, this time it’s a backbreaker. This actually does a lot more damage than his previous one and is most likely the ideal special to use for tick throw setups after a blocked jump HK or crouch HK/HP.
** Ki Attack **
HCB, F + HP: From far away from the screen, Rick does a longer ranged shoulder dash if he misses this. If he grabs the opponent, he’ll throw them upwards and unleashes a barrage of punches and then throws the opponent away. The most impressive thing in this ki attack is how incredibly retarded the range is - you can stand for about half a screen away and still grab the opponent! Still unblockable as his other throws and does almost the same damage as the other ki attacks in the game.
The only problem comes in building up the ki meter and using it for either the super or for reviving after being knocked out once or twice. Still, if you got the meter, don’t hesitate in using this at all
Random thoughts
Rick in general suffers the same fate as many of his grappler ilk: Too big, too slow and little to no comboablity. On the other hand, he has one of the most damaging command throws in the game, his normals aren’t half bad and his Ki attack covers almost half a screen’s worth distance + being unblockable makes it one of the more practical ki attacks in the game.
He’s not a high tier or even mid tier by any means, but grappler fans will feel right at home playing as Rick in this game.
Good work Loler :tup:
Who is your main?
Well for now, Rick of course. :lol: With a little bit of Nakai, as well.
I haven’t tried out much of the cast yet, though I intend to in the next couple of days, including both secret characters - Momo and Super Takagi.
So which characters have no/bad reversals?
Also, could you keep doing the impact defense as a blockstun cancel to build up ki from the LKs, and then threaten to use a super as a reversal? Or are there only a few supers which are fast enough to catch the LK?
Supers aren’t that fast.
All Supers have the ki gathering effect similar to SF games, but there is no actual game freeze during the charge.