Messed with Naika (Claw) some more.
Dude’s normals are basically beast mode. I can tell that as a character he will pretty much live and die by them. They are his best tools by far and damn good ones. I could see him as high tier off his normals alone.
Infinities == higher tier than No-Infinities? This ain’t Mahvel D:
But yeah, some of the characters are just trash-tier… but they’re all pretty viable looking. Though, some of their redizzy combos are just retarded (6lk loop with main character)
Not Masters of Teras that game was sOooooo bad
My opinion of Naiko has changed. High tier at worst IMO. Still if a character has the corner infinite vs one that doesn’t and both characters aren’t so hot then clearly the one who has it will be higher tiered.
And Ryuu-in isn’t viable.
He is abysmal.
Anyway, as of right now we are fleshing out an early list just from our observations.
Potential top tiers - Sotogawa, Imawara(trenchcoat)
Potential high tiers - Naiko (claw)
Potential mid tier - Takashi (main character)
Definite garbage tier - Ryuu-Un
So basically Takashi would be the measuring bar of a character. I seriously doubt anyone will be worse then Ryuu-un.
We need to tier and discuss some of the Asuka 120% series at a later date.
Great game, practically unknown to American audiences.
With the main dude (I don’t know his name haha). For some reason you can combo standing HP into his rapid punch thing, but when you do jumping HP, standing HP, it always knocks down. It doesn’t dizzy or anything, just knocks down.
lol.
EDIT: Just found a way for the boxer to combo into his corner infinite (jab x n) from not quite full screen. Jumping HP, dash, jab, walk x n. Yep, dashes are so good and hit stun duration is so long that this is possible. Gonna youtube the video now. Here you go [media=youtube]nwC369MADnQ[/media]
Also; for future games, I am totally down for something like DBZ:HD, Sailor Moon Super S and the like. Those games are awesome. I <3 guard cancels and Goku’s redizzy and the SNES Sailor Moon games are just plain silly.
the red suit guy’s airthrow is ridiculous and a half
GGs anotak. I call dibs on the twins and red suit. Too awesome.
(22:39:00) anotak: i think that move has invulnerability
(22:39:06) anotak: like a shoryu
(22:39:20) ELord: which move?
(22:39:28) yourmothe: you guys got it working?
(22:41:14) Lilman984: yea
(22:41:21) anotak: nevermind i think there’s just invulnerability frames on all wakeups
(22:41:24) Lilman984: i dont think its punishable
(22:41:28) ELord: yeah
(22:41:34) Lilman984: until the end
(22:41:36) ELord: all wake ups have crazy invulnerability
(22:41:37) ELord: like
(22:41:44) Lilman984: u sweeped me after
(22:41:45) anotak: also does claw not have a throw wtf?
(22:41:47) ELord: just from eye ballin it
(22:41:51) ELord: around 1 second
(22:41:53) yourmothe: yeah that shit is more than a little retarded
(22:41:57) ELord: i kid you not
(22:41:57) yourmothe: the wakeup invincibility
(22:42:07) ELord: you cant do shit but back the hell up
(22:42:14) ELord: cuz the one wkaing up will just rush your ass
(22:43:06) anotak: lilman you dropped
(22:43:20) anotak: how do you do suit guy’s specials
(22:43:20) Lilman984: i know one of my buttons wasnt working
(22:43:22) anotak: ahh
(22:43:30) yourmothe: charge moves
(22:43:37) yourmothe: b>f for both of them
(22:44:01) anotak: ahh
(22:44:33) anotak: i have a game up
(22:45:17) Lilman984: i says waiting for players
(22:45:24) anotak: says lost connection hit esc
(22:45:39) anotak: actually let me restart it rofl
(22:46:04) anotak: game is up
(22:46:23) Lilman984: omg now i cant see again
(22:46:23) anotak: says waiting for other players now
(22:46:32) Lilman984: wtf
(22:46:35) anotak: yeah.
(22:46:42) Lilman984: now if says it for u…
(22:46:54) Lilman984: i got timed out…
(22:46:54) anotak: restart it i guess
(22:49:41) Lilman984: how did u grab me out of that?!
(22:49:51) anotak: grabs have invulnerability i think rofl
(22:50:12) yourmothe: kind of seems like it to me too
(22:51:40) anotak: fuck
(22:51:51) Lilman984: cant throw that!!!
(22:51:52) Lilman984: lol
(22:51:58) anotak: can’t even jump the super i think
(22:53:39) anotak: fuck i didnt mean to do that super i dont even know what the input is rofl
(22:54:49) yourmothe: so is there no block stun if you use ki block?
(22:55:21) anotak: is that an air throw
(22:55:31) anotak: the game is lagging i can’t tell what it is haha
(22:55:45) Lilman984: i dont know if u can block it or not
(22:59:11) anotak: has anyone successfully avoided a super yet
(22:59:22) Lilman984: try and block that throw thing i do
(22:59:30) anotak: i did it didnt seem to work
(22:59:33) Lilman984: there all unblockable
(22:59:40) anotak: oh wait i counterhit yourmothe out of one
(22:59:44) Lilman984: and freeze the screen
(22:59:49) anotak: yeah i know they’re unblockable but can you jump
(22:59:55) anotak: well i did counterhit yourmother out of one
(23:00:02) Lilman984: maybe u can
(23:00:09) yourmothe: yeah use lows
(23:00:15) Lilman984: but isnt mine technically a grab?
(23:00:22) anotak: i dunno
(23:00:29) anotak: hey yourmothe how do you do chain guy’s specials
(23:00:42) yourmothe: the necklace guy?
(23:00:53) anotak: yeah
(23:01:02) yourmothe: charge back, forward kick for his long chain
(23:01:14) yourmothe: it’s actually f,d,f,HP for the other one
(23:02:38) Lilman984: ohh u can ki block the throw he has
(23:02:52) Lilman984: looks pretty punishable after
(23:03:05) anotak: yeah weird
(23:03:29) yourmothe: yeah I only use it after blocking something, in combos, or for hitting like really high attacks, it’ll go under a lot of them
(23:06:22) anotak: oh there’s dizzies hmm
(23:06:23) Lilman984: what the boxing looking guys specials?
(23:07:10) anotak: “sakuma” on the gamefaqs i think
(23:09:35) Lilman984: wtf
(23:09:36) anotak: woah what was that
(23:09:47) anotak: my instincts said mash
(23:09:50) Lilman984: dragonball fighting shit
(23:09:51) anotak: so i mashed buttons
(23:09:53) Lilman984: me too
(23:09:54) anotak: lol yeah wtf
(23:10:11) yourmothe: oh the thing where the bar pops up?
(23:10:13) anotak: yeah
(23:10:16) Lilman984: im having fun iwth this is that bad?
(23:10:30) anotak: i ki blocked and he did boxer’s corkscrew blow
(23:10:30) yourmothe: yeah idk what that is but yeah it happens when you ki block sometimes
(23:10:36) yourmothe: and you mash
(23:10:41) anotak: well at least it’s like dudley’s corkscrew blow on 3s
(23:10:53) yourmothe: maybe it’s ki block vs. special
(23:11:10) yourmothe: actually no i don’t think that’s it
(23:11:19) yourmothe: but it’s probably the “catch” that the gamefaqs guy was talking about
(23:13:15) anotak: it happened again same situation
(23:15:02) yourmothe: but yeah I’m actually enjoying this game too
(23:15:12) yourmothe: there’s parts of it that are stupid, but I think the ki system is actually pretty cool
(23:16:35) Lilman984: i like the rezing part
(23:16:44) Lilman984: its a cool use of a super bar
(23:16:49) anotak: gill
(23:16:58) anotak: "scar your dna with the mark of my dignity
(23:18:46) yourmothe: I kinda like the club guy too
(23:18:47) anotak: "
(23:18:49) yourmothe: tanaka
(23:18:56) yourmothe: he can shit out a good amount of damage
(23:19:12) yourmothe: way more than suit guy sotogawa
(23:19:19) anotak: the chain guy raped him though
(23:19:43) yourmothe: true, he’s got problems at range, I can definintely see that
(23:19:58) yourmothe: necklace guy could probably get away with just spamming standing HP all day
(23:21:29) ELord: holy shit
(23:21:33) ELord: ken forums is stupid
(23:21:48) anotak: i know for real
(23:21:58) yourmothe: no joke
(23:22:04) anotak: sagat fforums are really damn bad too
(23:22:10) yourmothe: sf4 is boring anyways, play karatebu
(23:22:10) ELord: how fucking hard is it…to look at a characters tools
(23:22:13) ELord: and say hmmm
(23:22:17) ELord: this tool is good
(23:22:19) ELord: or
(23:22:19) anotak: apparently really hard
(23:22:20) ELord: hmm
(23:22:22) ELord: this tool is bad
(23:22:24) ELord: no
(23:22:27) ELord: they gotta be fanboys and be like
(23:22:37) ELord: OMG ITS ALL IN HOW YOU USE IT
(23:22:46) ELord: like they discovered some unknown secret
(23:22:59) ELord: clearly any player worth their salt will use any tool intelligently
(23:23:34) yourmothe: hey does trenchcoat guy have specials other than the fireball?
(23:23:51) anotak: he’s got some weird punch thing that i can’t do on purpose
(23:23:55) anotak: i’ve done by accident though
(23:24:01) anotak: its like a rekka
(23:24:10) Lilman984: yea u raped me last round with it
(23:24:18) anotak: yeah it does a fuckton of damage
(23:24:19) Lilman984: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/571120/32368
(23:26:42) yourmothe: fuck I can’t read his name haha
(23:27:38) anotak: sagat forums are filled with people talking about how overpowered he is as opposed to anything useful
(23:27:41) Lilman984: yo the twins auto crossup move is too good
(23:27:46) anotak: yeah it is
(23:27:59) Lilman984: u can combo after ward too
(23:28:07) yourmothe: oh oh I know what the rekka things are
(23:28:21) yourmothe: you actually charge down and then go into a QCB+P
(23:28:31) anotak: wtf?
(23:28:32) anotak: ok
(23:30:25) anotak: YES
(23:30:28) Lilman984: well that didnt work
(23:32:45) anotak: the d+kick dive with claw is stupid safe
(23:35:19) anotak: why did you lose your ki when i just threw you
(23:38:23) Lilman984: no idea
(23:38:44) Lilman984: im liking the twins and the dude with the red suit
(23:38:59) anotak: i like the claw guy and the fireball guy i should probably try the red suit guy
(23:41:19) anotak: lol
(23:41:33) Lilman984: ohhh i know y i lost all my ki
(23:41:43) Lilman984: u cant rez more that 3 times
(23:41:50) anotak: oh yeah
(23:42:33) anotak: froze
(23:42:55) Lilman984: well im hungry anyway
(23:43:10) anotak: kk
(23:43:13) anotak: ggs
(23:43:16) Lilman984: ggs
(23:43:48) Lilman984: im saying the twins are high tier
(23:43:54) anotak: man i wish mini sagat didn’t suck dick
(23:44:02) anotak: combo off a fireball, delicious
(23:44:16) yourmothe: yeah too bad he’s garbage
(23:44:23) yourmothe: lol
(23:44:42) Lilman984: lol so much broken potential
(23:45:07) Lilman984: the twins auto crossup is stupid good
(23:45:18) Lilman984: i couldnt cancel it off a normal
(23:45:43) Lilman984: im gunna check but if u can thats gotta be some retarded good mixup
(23:46:17) anotak: i dont think this game has cancels
(23:46:26) yourmothe: yeah it seems like not much stuff cancels, combos seem like a lot of links
(23:47:12) Lilman984: i call the twins and red suit guy
(23:47:16) Lilman984: hands off!!
(23:47:27) Lilman984: the airthrow shit is too good too
(23:47:43) yourmothe: I got regular suit guy
(23:47:49) anotak: the airthrow shit is fucking ridiculous
(23:47:59) anotak: like i couldn’t react in time and even if i did i dont know if anything beats it
(23:48:12) ELord: u can block it high
(23:48:27) anotak: really? damn lol
(23:48:31) anotak: i feel dumb now
(23:48:58) ELord: hahah
(23:49:03) Lilman984: lol
(23:49:03) ELord: he is still solid though
(23:49:06) ELord: really mobile
(23:49:07) anotak: i’ve played a lot of bad stuff so i come to expect just unblockables and other shit
(23:49:08) anotak: yeah definitely
(23:49:26) ELord: the tiers seem to be fleshing out pretty quickly imo
(23:49:39) ELord: its only what?
(23:49:40) ELord: day three?
(23:49:46) anotak: it’s monday
(23:49:47) anotak: lol
(23:49:58) ELord: no i mean the third day we picked the game
(23:50:05) anotak: i guess i dunno
(23:50:07) ELord: yin picked it sunday or saturday?
(23:50:21) anotak: i think sunday
(23:50:26) ELord: kk
(23:50:29) anotak: i saw it early monday morning
(23:50:49) ELord: well time to do some actual work with Imawara and test some shit
(23:51:05) anotak: i would play you but i’ve had enough that music gets really fucking annoying
(23:52:49) ELord: hahah
(23:52:50) anotak: yeah you can relatively accurate tiers pretty quick on some games if they’re similar enough to SF or another fighting game
(23:52:51) ELord: also
(23:52:55) ELord: dont know if u guys have noticed
(23:52:56) ELord: but
(23:53:00) ELord: even if u dont hit ur opponent
(23:53:09) anotak: you can do the counter thing
(23:53:12) ELord: you can cancel the ending frames of a normal
(23:53:15) anotak: oh
(23:53:15) ELord: into a special
(23:53:17) ELord: yeah that too
(23:53:26) anotak: wait there is special canceling? shit i missed that
(23:53:32) ELord: >_>
(23:54:08) anotak: i tried it and i couldn’t do it but i gave up pretty fast and that was with minisagat so maybe he can’t do it
(23:54:21) ELord: fireballs are a bit too slow to do it
(23:54:30) anotak: ah
(23:54:30) ELord: for it to connect anyway
(23:54:42) ELord: fb’s are really just for zoning i think
(23:54:46) ELord: not for block strings
(23:55:04) anotak: you can tick with them for the trench coat guy to an extent
(23:55:09) ELord: actually…if ur really fast…you can cancel into the special before the normal even hits
(23:55:15) anotak: it’s not a perfect true tick throw
(23:55:26) anotak: but it’s almost one
(23:55:32) anotak: ahh so you can cancel it anywhere
(23:55:38) ELord: yeah he can chase his fb’s
(23:55:46) ELord: its just a mix-up tool though
(23:55:49) ELord: but its still good
(23:55:51) ELord: cuz he ahs options
(23:55:57) ELord: good AA’s and poks
(23:55:58) anotak: have you tried specialling out of blockstun? some games will allow that and i haven’t tried it here yet
(23:56:00) ELord: *pokes
(23:56:05) ELord: oh shit
(23:56:07) ELord: i need to try that
(23:56:30) anotak: because if you can cancel moves at any time that means that they may not have thought of things like this
(23:56:58) ELord: ok
(23:57:01) ELord: u can
(23:57:02) anotak: shit, pretty fighter lets people do normals out of blockstun or hitstun, it’s pretty hilarious as the best character is the one with the safest jab
(23:57:11) anotak: damn that’s broke then, no block strings then
(23:57:15) ELord: u can special cancel
(23:57:18) ELord: out of blockstun
(23:57:26) ELord: you gotta be quick of course
(23:57:30) ELord: u cant do it with normals
(23:57:33) ELord: but specials yeah
(23:57:34) anotak: yeah but that’s bad
(23:57:40) ELord: yeah it is
(23:57:48) anotak: thank god there’s no shoryus in the game
(23:57:53) ELord: characters with quick specials got even better
(23:57:59) ELord: imawara has a shoryu lol
(23:58:04) anotak: oh? really? shit
(23:58:09) ELord: well
(23:58:11) anotak: is it as fast
(23:58:12) ELord: its dp type move
(23:58:15) anotak: as an SF shoryu?
(23:58:20) ELord: its hella fast
(23:58:24) anotak: hmm k
(23:58:29) anotak: he’s probably top tier then
(23:58:34) anotak: everything is parried for free
(23:58:35) ELord: motion is wierd though
(23:58:40) anotak: oh?
(23:58:45) ELord: forward down up punch
(23:59:03) anotak: up?
(23:59:09) anotak: wtf i hate some of these games
(23:59:40) ELord: and it resembles andy bogards shoryudan
(23:59:45) ELord: no
(23:59:48) ELord: it IS his shoryudan
(23:59:49) yourmothe: oh you mean trenchcoat guy’s shoryu
(23:59:52) ELord: yeah
(23:59:58) Lilman984: lets just all play Psychic Force
(23:59:59) yourmothe: i got disconnected for a sec there
(5/26/2009 0:00:04) yourmothe: lol yeah psychic force
(0:00:11) ELord: psychic force aint shitty enough
(0:00:17) yourmothe: but yeah, I think trenchcoat guy is top tier
(0:00:22) Lilman984: dont u think i know that
(0:00:24) ELord: he is pretty dumb
(0:00:26) ELord: glad i picked him
(0:00:30) ELord: i got an eye for stupid characters
(0:00:40) Lilman984: im just saying we should play anyway lol
(0:00:43) ELord: lol
(0:00:58) Lilman984: fuck that i call out ur trenchcoat for my tiwns
(0:00:59) ELord: also his super
(0:01:01) ELord: is just
(0:01:02) anotak: yeah generally the people i pick on games tend to be top tier
(0:01:04) ELord: a really fast fireball
(0:01:05) ELord: lol
(0:01:11) yourmothe: that murders you
(0:01:15) ELord: and his fb
(0:01:18) ELord: knocksdown on hit
(0:01:20) ELord: that shit
(0:01:22) ELord: is unheard of
(0:01:41) ELord: u get knocked back all the way to the otherside
(0:01:43) ELord: its awesome
(0:01:46) ELord: and lame at the same time
(0:02:39) ELord: wait
(0:02:42) ELord: LOL
(0:02:43) ELord: u can
(0:02:47) ELord: cancel block stun with an action
(0:02:51) ELord: like
(0:02:53) ELord: walking
(0:02:54) ELord: so block
(0:02:56) ELord: walk
(0:02:58) ELord: jab jab combo
(0:03:00) ELord: ROFL
(0:03:03) anotak: ROFL
(0:03:14) ELord: this game
(0:03:15) yourmothe: yeah that’s why you can reverse shit so well
(0:03:16) ELord: is
(0:03:17) ELord: fucking
(0:03:20) ELord: QUALITY
(0:03:27) yourmothe: just on block I throw out any special that moves you forwards
(0:03:29) yourmothe: shit is so free
No dibs mister, I’ve been alla over Sakuma from the start :nono:
You can have the freaky twins :razzy:
Good to see things are really picking up! If you get any netplay matches going, please record them. That would be awesome to see.
Emblem: I’d add Sakuma as potential top (corner jab inf, the seemingly beastly air throw, decent combos, high mobility), and Tanaka as high or mid.
Fine u can have Sakuma i actually like the twins alittle more anyway. Me and Anotak were playing for a while. We were just playing, i didnt think about saving it or anything.
How good are the twins anyway? What can they do?
So basically, since it’s so easy to reversal due to cancelling blockstun by simply walking forward, if you want to apply any sort of pressure then you NEED a fast spammable jab.
This will be a huge factor in deciding who is top tier. At this point I think specials will only have a place in combos, since any special on block is a free reversal unless that special has near zero recovery frames. Of course fb’s will still be abusable since they have their place in zoning and space control.
Game: Ossu Karatebu
Meters: Ki. You get it by blocking and attacking (not whiffing) and by the “ki block”.
Specials: yes
Supers: yes, uses ki meter.
Invincible Reversals: kind of. you are invicible for many frames after you wake up.
Throws: Instant, not techable, uncomboable
Blockstun: y, but it can be canceled by specials and actions like walking
Hitstun: y
Juggle system: n
Unblockables (list them): supers
Special Canceling: y. does not require hit and can be done at any point in the move
Super Canceling:
Normals canceling: n
Other Cancelling?: see blockstun
Dashing: y
"Mugen infinites?": corner only
Rolling: n
Parrying/Just Defend: no but see blockstun
Taunts: n
template for game info checklist:
Game:
Meters: (explain how any meters in the game work)
Specials: y/n
Supers: y/n (explain if more than one kind)
Invincible Reversals: y/n (perhaps explain)
Throws: Instant or not, techable or not, combo into throws or not
Blockstun: y or n (explain if it can be canceled out of)
Hitstun: y/n (if N the game probably does not have combos)
Juggle system: y/n
Unblockables (list them): ex. supers in Ossu Karatebu
Special Canceling: y/n (ex. ryu c.mk to fireball)
Super Canceling: y/n (ex. chun 3s low forward super)
Normals canceling: y/n (ex. magic series)
Other Cancelling?:
Dashing: y/n
"Mugen infinites?": y/n (do jabs combo into each other forever? check this)
Rolling: y/n (snk games!)
Parrying/Just Defend: y/n
Taunts: y/n
Good list! But shouldn’t parrying/just defend be y, I mean with the “counter” thing you can do.
After the week is up, I can add this list to the game on the first post, together with some strats and vids in like a spoiler tag or something maybe.
there is no parrying/just defend as an explicit system as third strike or guilty gear or mark of the wolves or blitzkampf
Well there © d+U HP is an Auto-crossup anywhere on screen and then comboable afterward. His specials seem safe on block. And he has pretty good normals.
nope, nothing is safe on block, since you can cancel your blockstun at any time.
I think there are a few more uses for specials:
Also, some moves might push you back enough on block or otherwise transport you away to still be considered safe?
Sounds pretty awesome… Gonna take a look at that auto-crossup when I get back fom work, sounds crazy :wow:
But there is a specific command (back+button) to do a counter/damaging parry if timed correctly, shouldn’t that count? It’s even the only way to save yourself from the unblockable supers, except for moving out of the way.
Yeah. Moves with good block push back would be safe unless that special has alot of recovery time.
Nakai definitely goes up though and anyone else who has really great normals.