Yes but this early? I remember MK9 having a bit more variety at first before getting into the counter-pick situation. I’m probably remembering wrong but was MK9 like this week 2-3? Does this mean we’re in for a patch already? haha
MK9 wasn’t this counter-pick heavy this early. I remember everyone and their mom still playing Sub-Zero and Scorpion in week 2
The FG community as a whole is leveling up; no doubt about that. And, this means that we’re more able to analyze things in fighting games such as matchups and strength of characters. Of course, it still takes time to perfect any given game, but I’d like to think we’re getting faster and faster at doing so. It doesn’t matter what fighting game it is, the fundamentals are usually going to remain the same, and the only thing that really changes is execution. Now, some games change this (i.e. Divekick), but for the most part things such as knowing to block/punish, analyzing the strength of a given normal, or seeing a good blockstring/attack pattern are going to get faster as you have more game experience to draw from. Injustice just made it all the easier by giving us the frame data. We used to actually have to record with FRAPS and watch it frame by frame to get that stuff, or just play until we got a ‘feel’ for it.
hide cursor is a fucking blessing in this game, I just wish it ONLY hid the cursor from your opponent and not you. NRS games are notorious for awful fucking controls in there games, and this one is no different. I press down a lot and get down then left. I dunno how many people I’ve seen try to quit player matches only to hit RIGHT then get thrown right back to REMATCH. I’ve went to pick Doomsday and ended up with fucking Bane or Deathstroke or Killer Frost a few times by accident 
I love how many people wait for you to pick before going over to Grundy or Deathstroke depending on who you pick.
edit: LOL at the reasoning behind Doomsday as lowest tier. So you’re facing people who are using supernova over and over? Wow, hilarious that you say dashing forward saves you, when they can just not use meter, and fall short, and thus you dash to doom. Or nice of you to have no answer for things like jump in d3, into ES (which is one of, if not THE, hardest special moves in the game to block, due to the need to block high then low, against it). He isn’t incredible, but no way is he bottom tier. It’s hard as fuck to keep him out, his mobility is incredible, he has perhaps the greatest AA in the game, and good luck clashing when all his combos are aren’t high hitting, and good luck dealing with him when he has trait on. If you’re on 360, I would love to prove why he isn’t low tier. Just because you face a lot of people who play him like Deathstroke (full screen spamming of one move), doesn’t mean that people out there aren’t using him properly, and just fucking people’s world up with never ending pressure and high/low mixups. And the fact his chip damage is beast.
#1 she doesn’t lose hard to slade at all. You just don’t stay in flight all day like you would vs nightwing or Harley or joker. Up close, she pushes his shit in and it’s not as difficult to get in with her as it is with others. Plus, he wants to stay away and a combo or two from her and he’s in the corner and she can lay waste to him with D1s to keep him down and make it really tough to get out with WE 2/3 and mix him up. Mace charge is a big help because he can’t punish it or duck it with a move. He has to guess and either shoot earlier than the mace charge (and if HG is in MC range it’s gonna hit him) or B3 MB through it on anticipation.
#2 fights with superman she doesn’t lose hard either. Fly to the top of the screen and superman can’t hit her with the heat but she can hit him with maces. To my knowledge there isn’t much he can do vs her wake up MC (correct me if I’m wrong). Stay away from that spot where his AA can hit and be patient.
#3 B2 mixups are great in the corner but tough anywhere else because the 2nd 2 on B22 has shit range and doesn’t move forward a lot at all. Need to establish D1 and IA foot dive to get the opponent to block to walk close enough for B22 to threaten.
Hawkgirl’s toughest matchup is WW. She just simply has the tools to fuck HG not just in flight, but in the air in general. Her Lasso B2 is fucking amazing and is quicker than HG’s MC and shuts down a lot of what she can think about at that mid range. Air tiaras and that flying punch just fuck HGs air game up. WW also has that D3 which shrinks her hit box so she can duck under the MC and then punish in anticipation. HG has to play way more cautiously and throw more straight horizontal air maces in anticipation of WWs air specials and dashes.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
Hawkgirl with an air dash? Jeez. Why not just make her broken?
Hawkgirl has trouble with Deathstroke not just because she can’t do flight shit, but she has to work more than the average character to get in due to below average dash and her normal approach options not working well against his regular gameplan. Even after she gets in, if she loses initiative then he has the advantage in terms of damage off legit mixups. Also his j3 is plenty good enough to hit her out of bf2 if he calls her out on it, and he gets respectable damage off of it. I’m not saying it’s a completely horrible matchup, but against a solid player she has to work harder than usual imho.
As for Superman, if the player knows how to deal with Hawkgirl neutral in general (aka patiently) then that’s already problematic since he converts well off random hits. If he has the life lead then it’s even more of a pain since her most basic offense (sweep/divekick) gives him f23 combo if he blocks right and punishes properly, and trying to start stuff requires you to be well within that ugly danger zone of f23. The best thing she has going for her is that after breath on block her d1 beats Superman’s and he can’t just back up to make it whiff like most characters. Nevertheless she really can’t screw around in that matchup or she risks eating randomshit into f23 ice breath combo.
But yeah lol, Hawkgirl with an airdash (Especially in flight mode) would be hilariously stupid. It’d be nice to really screw Nightwing over though since that character is pretty monstrous once he gets in lol, even though db2 stuff makes his pressure less bullshitty.
Exactly. I never meant to seem like Hawkgirl can’t win or its a 9-1. The fact is she can get through if she plays smart. The thing is Supes or Slade don’t have to really play all that smart to beat her. She just takes work. But its still tough and makes you want to pull your hair out.
I’m seeing Raven as good but as a lesser Lantern essentially. Damage is weaker, combos are shorter, zoning is worse, and her grabs are shit compared to his. She needs the range of hers vertically to be the same as Lantern for her to even be on par with him I feel. Maybe I’m just frustrated with how much Lantern is rewarded while Raven isn’t as much.
I guess people can rest a bit easier now that they have a way to help rationalize their failures. What is the point of a tier list this early?
Walks into the thread Black Adam. drops mic and walks out
Helps new people sometimes figure out who to use. A lot of people pickup a game and just check tier lists to get an idea who to use. Also, these week one tier lists are fun to look back at several months from now (after an Evo tourney) when people have moved on to different characters.
Maybe it’s just me, but after one match with my friend, I can block both the OH and Low about 85% of the time with ease. I used to think that move was worthless, and then I saw DD doing fairly well at tourneys with that move, and I had to thoughts in this sequence: “Is ES really that good?” followed by “No way, these people are just incompetent.” Turns out I was right.
As for the other 15% where I don’t see it coming fast enough, I take the low for less damage and respond to his next move accordingly. I have more trouble with his throw, which is harder to react to than most of the cast. Is it just me, or do the rushdown characters have faster grabs while the zoning characters have slower grabs…and by faster/slower I mean the amount of time between beginning the grab and going into cinematic.
DD can also throw during a combo, which throws some people off. I still feel that DD will need a buff of some sort in the future.
Not to be rude, but you’re kidding, right? If Doomsday actually got buffed to be meaningful in tournament-level play, he would be an absolute nightmare to fight online, and it would be exactly the opposite of fun to play against him. As-is, he’s playable offline (but not very good, especially as people learn how to block his silly stuff, like I applaud ForsakenM~ for doing.) but online he’s already one of the most infuriating characters to play against in the history of terrible netcode; why in the hell would you want to make that worse?
As far as the frame data goes, all characters have the same specs for throws of:
Start-up Frames: 10
Recovery Frames: 21
Hit Advantage: 14
Block Advantage: -5
As far as aesthetics/duration of the cinematic, who knows? It’s a possibility, sure, but it doesn’t have any bearing on the actual gameplay.
You NEVER EVER EVER base a game’s characters on the online experience, period. There is no other discussion. Your entire argument is horribly invalid.
Has anyone had time to tryout batgirl yet? If so what are your thoughts? Haven’t got my hands on her yet.
Way too early to tell. Since she’s bugged right now with a 100% meterless combo, she’s obviously S+++++++, but…it depends exactly how much of it they decide to patch out. If they patch out just the abusive loop, I think she’s pretty strong. Best pressure besides Flash and she has a much better counter-zoning game. Maybe not top tier, but at least B or B+ (I consider top tier A in this game). If they patch out her entire standing reset vortex though, she’s probably really bad.
doomsday is godlike. easily top tier or close to it.
He ES isn’t used as a mix-up at high level, since anyone experienced with it can easily block it. It’s his only safe pressure ender to cancel strings into and during combo is sets up an untechable knockdown for body splash and other oki set ups. The overhead is useful for corner oki too mixed with sweeps- his only other low.
Doomsday does have plenty of gimicks that are scary until you figure them out, but he’s still solid character even once people know how to counter them.
You’re right, I have no idea what I’m talking about; online play isn’t important at all for character balance. Those 10 frames of delay will clearly make any actual attempt at playing the game just devolve into a guessing game, so why bother, right?
But hey, just think of it this way : REO and Tom Brady think he’s A+ tier, so I really must not know what I’m talking about, putting him at the bottom of the tier list. So he doesn’t need a buff after all. Huh. Not like it matters much, given the game has gone through two balance patches since this list has come out; and more importantly I haven’t even played in ~2 weeks. In fact, I don’t even know why I’m still posting here.
[ChuckNorris bans himself from replying in thread Week 1 Tier List]
[ChuckNorris unbans himself from replying in thread Week 1 Tier List]
On a completely unrelated note, they finally patched Cyborg’s IA buster, so this game got a much more reasonable. It’s like they’re actually trying to make a balanced game; it’s pretty nice. Now if only I had a console to play this awesome game with developers that care and patch it. Oh well.
[ChuckNorris bans himself from replying in thread Week 1 Tier List]
Edit :
Chuck Norris is never wrong, he only uses sarcasm in an attempt to point out foolishness.
Spoiler
Chuck Norris laughs at the fact the same two idiots who have been trying to troll the thread since the very beginning are still posting, still trying to troll, and still failing miserably. Not even Chuck Norris’ tears can cure this cancer.[details=Spoiler]Man this thread will be awesome to look back on after EVO.[details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler][details=Spoiler]Spoilception.[/details][/details][/details][/details][/details][/details][/details][/details][/details][/details][/details][/details][/details]
[ChuckNorris bans himself from editing in thread Week 1 Tier List]
Weird, I thought I read somewhere that Chuck Norris never cries.