Warriors Fate: Street Fighter story thread, revived

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1401

Oooh, so English is not his first language. Feel kinda bad over what I said since English was not my first language either (it was Spanish) but since I’ve lived in the U.S. all my life English may as well be. Oh well, it’s not like people are always nice to me on the Net anyways.

Anyway, I’d end it the way you said in the last paragraph of your Post since it almost seems that person will go on and on saying that they use Shotokan.

In case anyone here missed this, here’s a Site and a bunch of Pics (a Slide Show!!!) from Capcom’s SF 15th Anniversary Museum Exhibit in Japan!

1402

I wasn’t sure if it was his first language or not, but then he e-mailed me an ICQ conversation he had with a friend about shotokan and the thing was literally impossible to understand, as if someone took another language, ran it through alta vista, ran alta vista back to a different language, then ran alta vista to translate it back to English again. So I took the hint after that :sweat:

Yea, I saw the anniversary gallery. Honestly, it seemed kinda… small. I’m interested in the art book, though. 600 pieces of art? There’s gotta be some Alpha 3 art in there, somewhere (unlike that anniversary art gallery)! Hey, I imagine with 600 pieces of Street Fighter art, there’s even a small 0.0000001% chance in hell that a single small piece of it hidden in some far off corner of the book that you’d have to use a magnifying glass to view is Doll related!

1403

I saw that too. Official SF Undies, official SF cell-phones, official SF credt cards, a SF snack shop with Chun-Li as the mascot,… I gotta wonder if the Japanese down there ever said to themselves, “Damn, all this over a video game!?”. :lol:

I wonder if they have the SF3 Bible in there? It’s weird how they can show all that concept art on what appears to be Akiman’s desk (of which you see one of Chun-Li with Sakura and DR Cammy on the computer :depress: ), but not a pic of Gill and Kolin.

1404

Hey, how was that guy called? I want to know if I know him. I was talking about your faq to the webmaster of a brazilian street fighter rpg(the white wolf one) site and his views are a lot like the ones that are stated in that post…

1405

From Udoneko:

"“When we discuss with Capcom about time line, history and all those stuff, we do found out that there are A LOT of conflicting details that would not fit together, as all individual versions of each SF game does have their own story and timeline to begin with, much like each one is a parellel universe of each other. Seems they never really try to make a real link to the whole thing.”

Sooooooo… anyone know for sure whether Alpha and Street Fighter 2 take place in the same world? :bluu: Sigh. This is all I needed…

Anyways,

Smashz, the e-mail discussion is from some guy named Eric, and the name in the address is Eric Musashi, if that helps.

His latest e-mail is this:

I have a good text to your FAQ:
“Capcom USA said that Akuma (and Ryu/Ken) fights Shotokan Karate. But Capcom of Japan said that your Ansatsuken are based only in Karate. Sub-style are not mentioned. I believe that he fights various styles of Karate, like Gen’s Ansatsuken, based in various forms of Kung Fu.”

/end e-mail

Whatever.

1406

I am talking to him now(yes, he was the guy of the street rpg website) and he said that he is trying to tell you that Akuma’s ansatsuken is based on various styles of karate not a mix of various unrelated styles like karate, judo, taekwondo and koppo. That’s almost the same thing that Clay said. Do you agree with this or not, Tiamat? THAT’s what he is asking… Can’t you just answer that question?

1407

Ah, so that’s what he was trying to get at! It’s pretty hard to understand his e-mails sometimes. But you ask those latter two questions as if I know what the hell I’m talking about when it comes to fighting styles. A tip. I don’t. :sweat: All I have to say about fighting styles in the plot guide is parrotting what more knowledgeable people that I trust like Clay or Saiki say. Since Clay says that it’s based on various styles of karate, then eh, sure, I’ll have to say that, too, since he knows a lot more about it than I do.

1408

Man, all of this quibbling the whole time has been over a few minor details that could change on any of Capcom’s whims anyway. Some of the details are so vague that it wouldn’t even matter. We’re talking about a fictional fighting style used by fictional characters. If they wanted to call it Shotokan, then I wouldn’t care, but I think that the general consensus is that CoJ mentioned Ansatsu-ken in the past. It’s a more generic term that allows for more flexibility, so I’ll stick with that. If Saiki dropped by tomorrow and said that CoJ changed there style to “insert fighting style here” then that would be official and all of his discussion would be rendered moot. I think that his main hang up was the line in the faq that says that they don’t use Shotokan. You didn’t meant that there style wasn’t similar to karate, it was just meant to inform people that Cap USA made a mistranslation in the original SF2 series. In the end, nobody is really disagreeing with anybody here, he’s just wording things a little differently.
I thought that his other point (the one that Smash stated), was already understood. Gen’s style is based off of kung-fu, Ryu’s is more karate oriented. I haven’t looked at the faq in a while, so I don’t know if there is a line in there that is upsetting him or not, but I was under the impression that it stated basically what I just stated in my last sentence. On the other hand, if somebody were to come out of the woodwork and say that there are some judo influences in Ryu’s style because of throws (or something like that, it’s just an example), then I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with them either. Since Ansatsu-ken is made up, it consists of whatever capcom feels like.

Tiamat’s always fine tuning his faq. It doesn’t sound to me like he’s really arguing with your friend, more like he can’t quite understand what his point was. The english was a little garbled from what I saw. Anyhoo, if this was all over a couple of words in the faq, then:

  1. It was a dumb argument in the first place (or a misunderstanding)
  2. Tiamat will probably clean up the section in his next update to avoid confusion

What about Seichusein Godanzuki? I know that it involves a quick succession of hits, but that final one looks pretty nasty. One would think that that might qualify.

Think of it like Kof and Aof. Technically, they shouldn’t belong together at all, but with a little fudging of the details and they magically belong to the same timeline. With different people involved in the production of SF, there are always going to be mistakes and conflicting ideas. If they were all parallel universes, then there wouldn’t really be any reason for the characters to age at all. Also, a lot of the changes made to SSFT2Revival, seem to reflect previous changes in the Alpha storyline. If they didn’t coexist at all then these changes would be unnecessary. I still think that they connected (albeit somewhat loosely). Different people have different ideas, interpretations, and directions that they want to move the characters in. You just have to remember that Capcom kind of just adds the story to the game, it doesn’t revolve around it. There are bound to be conflicts.
-Clay

1409

Udoneko’s a nice guy and out of respect for him Posting on this Forum I’ll Post here and not on his Thread.

I feel you gotta take some of the stuff he says with a little grain of salt since he is trying to sell his comic. What I think he kind of means, or Capcom means is that first Capcom makes a new game, then goes and changes storylines so it can fit continuity. Their first priority is making a great game since they know most people don’t care about storyline anyways. And of course, Udoneko logic really applies to Vs. Games, where continuity is thrown to the winds, so it’s all very confusing.

Do the makers of the comic care as much for the storyline as they like us to believe? I’m starting to question that. Just read his Thread and notice all the stuff that’s changed. In Newtype, I just found out when Ryu meets Ken in issue 1, Ken will already have a wife and kid, and this is supposed to be SF2.

Udoneko may be a fan of SF, but it seems he cares more about selling his comic, and can you blame him? I mean, just the notion of him saying that Maduriera is not lazy is LUDICROUS, but of course he’d say that to sell the book. Now, I doubt that his comics will be as great as Masahiko Nakahiro’s books. Sure, there’s color, nice art, but while the liberties M.N. took with the SF Storyline seemed cool, his do not. Of course, I can be proven wrong once the book comes out.

Will I buy every issue? Yes! Increased SF Popularity in the States can only mean good things. Better US Merchandising Products made, ability to get Japanese SF Products may get easier, the chance of AAC being translated increases by .000000000001%, the chance of Capcom hurrying up giving us more SF games increases, more people will be lead to read the Plot Guide, so on, and so on.

Well, since a lot of my hopes for the upcoming SF Comic have been shot, at least I now no longer want #0, and that saves me some time and money. Tiamatroar, just make sure in the next Plot Guide Update you write “The U.S. SF Comic is not Canon” to save you some trouble. Course, more people reading the Plot Guide may cause you more trouble… sorry…

1410

After SF2 Revival, I always thought there weren’t any outstanding conflicts, assuming you threw the obviously what-if endings out the window. Yeesh.

Eh, so far, I don’t mind many of the changes in the comic, itself. Ken being already married to Eliza basically just means there won’t be a love story of him falling in love with Eliza early on as far as I can tell. Well, okay, sure, I suppose it also means it might dodge a “Ken leaves Eliza to participate in SF2 for a while” thing, but that story can be done with Guile and his wife, anyways :stuck_out_tongue: Whatever happens to Cammy, though, I’m a bit more interested in, but I think there’s a misinterpretation or something when Udoneko said Cammy would work for Bison first. The storyline discrepancy here would be Cammy working for Bison during SF2, since Udoneko said the comic would take place first during SF2, but I believe that since then, the comic storyline’s been changed to take place during Alpha first and Udoneko forgot to mention it, what with the thing starting off with Gouken being killed and all. Besides, I think having Alpha be a flashback would be a very VERY bad idea. There are TONS of characters in Alpha that will be very difficult to have another character flashback to. How the HELL will Birdie, Karin (unless Ryu flashbacks about her, which would be silly), R. Mika (unless they’re going to devote a section to Zangief flashbacking about Alpha, which would also be silly), the Dolls (unless they make Cammy regain her memory somehow, which would really @#$@# with her mind. …well, okay, I suppose you could have Vega/Balrog flashback it but that’d be kinda weird, I think), and and basically EVERY Final Fight character (since there are no Final Fight characters in SF2) have a decent storyline role in a flashback? For you to flashback to the past, someone has to REMEMBER the past, and there are tons of storylines in Alpha which are not very connected to SF2 at all, only very loosely connected, or connected in such a way that those involved would not remember it. Alpha’s storyline is too friggin’ BIG to just be a flashback. It’s probably the largest most complex part of the SF storyline (33+ characters in Alpha 3 alone each with their own stories and sets of mid-bosses and such would guarantee that). It has to be shown in it’s own light, unless Studio Udon and Capcom Japan want to either cram it into too small a space or have a flashback that takes up more issues than the actual present itself.

…so anyways, yea, I’m thinking the comic now starts in Alpha but Udoneko just forgot to mention that, which would get rid of the Cammy working for Shadaloo during SF2 discrepancy because now she’d be doing it during Alpha. :stuck_out_tongue:

Being out of the loop regarding the comic industry, I don’t really have much to say about Maduriera. But if Udoneko knows Maduriera in person and as a friend, that’s going to make it a lot harder for Udon to criticize the guy both in public and in his own mind, I imagine. The human mind tends to bias itself in that way, so I don’t think it necessarily has to be a comment to try to get the comic to sell so much as Udoneko sincerely believing that because he knows Maduriera as a friend thus biasing his mind towards Maduriera.

Heh, I don’t have to be blunt and possibly undiplomatic regarding the canonity of the SF comic. Udoneko was kind enough to give me his own paragraph about it to copy and paste in that thread. :cool:

Regarding Shotosatsukan: I’ll say it again. Whatever. I’ll change/clarify the thing if it isn’t, already, but that doesn’t mean I’ll actually CARE. :o But then, the plot guide has a lot ofpaltry details in it that I don’t really care about but had to include for the sake of completeness, anyways, so that’s nothing new. Before I actually upload a new update, though, I’d like to see if I could possibly (and subtlely) get more clarification from Udon regarding his statement about alternate parallel universes and blah. It may or may not be a big deal, so I’ll go ahead and update anyways if I can’t find anymore info on it, but I like to at least try a little and give these things a little time before going on and uploading a new version. :slight_smile:

1411

Wow, this threads still going strong. :slight_smile:
Anyways, regarding the Ansatsu/shotokan thing, it says right in AA SFZ3 that Ryu uses Ansatsuken and that it is a mix of Karate(doesn’t specify which one), Judo and Taekwondo. I forget where I got the Koppo thing from.

1412

Wow, thanks again, Saiki! I just checked and apparently that statement was already in the guide, after all. Hmm… shotokan IS a type of karate, right? Just trying to make sure I don’t have to go through any more qualms about specifics regarding this as I upload. :stuck_out_tongue:

1413

Just remembered something…

I went to the mall the other day, and this anime called Doomed Megapolis caught my attention because the mad dictator featured looks A LOT like Bison! And to my understanding, this anime’s older than SF2. Anyone know if Bison’s design was made from that? The dictator role seems to have been a popular trend for anime villains since then.

And even better, what does AAC say about the designs for each SF character? Like, about who they were based off of, and other ideas that were used to complete them? (No need to go into obvious ones covered in the PG, like Balrog and Yun/Yang). :slight_smile:

1414

Capcom got Vega’s design, face and powers from a manga called “Riki-Ou”. A character called “Washi-zaki” looks pretty close to what Vega looks. And the creators of this “Washi-zaki” character got their idea from a character called, “Katou Yasunori” from "Teikoku monogatari"
Here’s a link to what Katou looks like.
http://homepage2.nifty.com/rokudenasinoana/hp_019.htm
In the original SF2, Vega had a star on his hat instead of the Shadowlook mark, just like Washi-zaki and Katou.

Btw, this manga called “Riki-Ou” also contains two characters that became characters in Street Fighter.
A character called “Oo Kuma”, which means big bear, became Zangief.
And a character called Bison, became M Bison.

1415

Interesting. By any chance, do you know if Katou tried to seize control of Tokyo in that story by preventing a magical guardian of sorts from reappearing, or destroying it? Because that concept and character name sounds very identical to what I saw of that anime I mentioned. ‘Teikoku monogatari’ might be how it was originally titled.

Which Bison are you talking about? Do you mean the boxer, or Vega (Japanese name)?

1416

I’m pretty sure he means the boxer, since the dictator already had his own inspiration described above that. :slight_smile:

1417

Yeah, but Balrog/M.Bison’s a parody of Tyson. Why model him after a manga character?

1418

Eric(the guy who was asking about ansatsuken) asked me to post this because he isn’t registered in this forum:

Shotokan was the first type of karate to go from Okinawa to Tokyo, where was created the first dojo, called Shotokan.

1419

Ah. Tell Eric I said thanks for confirming that.

Hey Saiki, could you do me a favor? Or more specifically, this person who e-mailed me a favor. A person wants to buy some old sources which have information on Gouken’s daughter, but doesn’t know which ones do and which ones don’t. If any of the sources in the below pics (link needs to be copied and pasted) have any mention of Gouken’s daughter, could you tell me which ones?

Oh yea, for my own curiousity, is that last one The Official Street Fighter 2 Fanbook that states that Zangief is gay? Thanks again!

1420

Well, a “mix” is a pretty loose way to put it, considering the only Tae Kwon-Do maneuver Ryu/Ken have is the Nerichagi, and that the only Judo maneuvers they have are their two throws.

Oh, I wanted to ask. How in the hell does Ken, with his sacrificial throw (at least, that’s what I recall it being called in my short judo course), jump in the air, does flips barely inches above the ground and still manages to not get hurt? I’ve always wanted to know about that.