I did print out most of what was said in the page that got wiped out, so if no one objects, I’d like to retype what I can on Monday.
Sure thing.
Hey, look at this…
Capcom’s asked snk-capcom.com to set up a poll to hear from us on the next Vs. game! Sweet! Go there, vote, and then give them some additional feedback. I’ve already showed my concern for the SF story and that I don’t want Capcom USA screwing with it anymore. You should too!
http://www.snk-capcom.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=315&postid=2585
Thanks GF2! There’s actually a lot I have to say to Capcom so I’ve already registered. When I get my thoughts together and have time I’ll definitely Post.
Since the Weather is “Blah” here in New York (annoying drizzle) and since I managed to print out the page that got wiped out minus Hcparker’s last Post, I’m going to start typing what was lost. There were instances where people quoted others, so to save some time I’ll just Post the gist of what was quoted in parenthesis. There is also an instance where GF2 meant to say Oro’s SF 3S ending instead of Ryu’s so I fixed that to save a little time.
I don’t think it will, but if me doing this offends Tiamatroar, Hcparker or GF2 I apologize, but this last page has lots of cool stuff regarding Oro and Ryu’s relationship and unresolved Plot lines and I don’t want this info to be lost. Here goes -
GF2 - 5/13/03:
(Quotes Hcparker: “But what powers the Yagyou-Dama? Magic?”)
His mind. His quotes make it plainly obvious.
“A dream, a phantom, and an illusion. That’s the meaning of Yagyou-Dama.”
“It doesn’t stike you, yet it still drags you in. That’s the secret of Yagyou-Dama.”
Whatever method Oro uses to project his thoughts like that, I’m certain it doesn’t involve ki, just as none of Bison’s or Rose’s attacks use ki.
Coninuing -
TiamatRoar - 5/13/03:
(Quotes Hcparker’s statement that what Capcom said hints at SF2.5 rather than SF4 as he feels that it has more outstanding plots then SF3.)
I can’t think of too many outstanding plots in the SF series, myself, particularly for SF2. Though that’s just my interpretation of various things and of course opinions may vary on what needs wrapping up and what doesn’t. Currently, the biggest outstanding dangling plotlines that I can think of mostly belong to Final Fight. But… pretty sure I already talked about lots of that (like how most of the outstanding Final Fight hanging plotlines, if they ever get resolved, should be done so in a Final Fight game and not an SF one, IMHO). Any remaining unresolved plotlines that I can think of are from SF3, with most of SF2 being resolved already.
FYI, I define something as “unresolved” as “absolutely must be resolved or else the character’s storyline feels unfinished”, not “answers a question about that character that some people may be wondering about” (unless that question is really REALLY important to that character AND neither answer to it would seem out of left field).
Lemme think…for SF2 character that didn’t make it to SF3…
E.Honda: Nothing to resolve in the first place
Deejay: Nothing to resolve in the first place
Blanka: Lived happily ever after with his mom
Guile: Lived happily ever after with his family, gave up revenge
Cammy: Lived happily ever after, decided to look to the future with Delta Red. Possible unresolved plotline since Bison did state after SFA3 that he would always be in her mind, and there’s hints of him creeping in (Cammy feeling dizzy, grey flash of Bison, etc). I suppose this is a valid unresolved plot point question, though I’m not sure whether or not it’d be prudent for Capcom to ressurect Bison in any shape or form yet AGAIN.
Balrog: Caused the downfall of Shadoloo post-M.Bison and became a bum again.
Vega: Went back to his old life and thus lived happily ever after…prolly.
M.Bison: Dead
Dhalsim: Lived happily ever after with his family
Zangief: Showed the glory of Russia! And… not much to resolve in the first place
T.Hawk: Went back to rebuild his homeland. Don’t really think there’s much else for Capcom to say. I don’t really think there’s anything unresolved to do with Noembulu (now, if Noembulu were actually important enough to Capcom for Capcom to give her more than a cursory glance, then it might count as unresolved, but as it is, she was so unimportant that Capcom friggin’ swapped Juli in her place for crying out loud. To resolve what happened to Noembulu would force Capcom to like, you know, acknowledge her existence in-game, which would seem out of left field considering that she’s basically just a sprite cameo. Not that I’d mind…)
Fei Long: Gave up life as a movie star to pursue the real thing (real fighting).
Sagat: About the only real unresolved plot point I can think of. But even this one, I’m not so sure about. I think Capcom might be going for an ‘eternal rivalry’ thing here (as opposed to Ryu and Ken’s rivalry, which is so… casual), and thus for symbolic reasons, we should never see Ryu and Sagat’s final battle take place. But again, I’m not sure about that.
(Note from sano: Grouped most of the “lives happily ever after” and “nothing to resolve” people together while Tiamatroar had them in a different order since it was a little easier for me. Nothing important was left out. Apologizes for lazyness. …)
Chun, Ryu, Ken, and Akuma all move to SF3. So… besides Maaaybe Sagat and maybe Cammy (though again, doubt Capcom would want to ressurect the ol’ ressurected Bison plot), there isn’t much unresolved, there.
Final Fight has a whole bunch of things, from Guy going missing with specifically no reason given to Rolento and Sodom’s fate (really, you don’t just have their last appearance be “All right! We’re back together again! Let’s go!!!” then later on say offstage “Oh yea. Those guys. They erm… failed. Whatever.” That’s just really stupid. …course, Rose’s ridiculously offstage death was IMHO just really stupid too but eh) to Maki chasing after Guy. There’s also possibly Cody, since although the fallen hero thing was IMHO cool, traditionally, the fallen hero eventually… well, you know, rises up again. And in fact, dialog in both SFA3 from Guy to Cody (“I’ll go back to the city when I’m ready” or whatever it was) and Final Fight One (Cody and more so Guy) indicates that really should happen, eventually. On a more interperative note, I don’t think beating the Skull Cross Gang would stop violence in Metro City, since the whole reason the Skull Cross Gang existed and came into power was because of the void Mad Gear left behind, and guess what beating the Skull Cross Gang does? It leaves behind another void! There’s really a cycle of violence thing going on there which I think should be resolved, especially since Haggar lost/retired the mayorship. IE, Haggar stopped being mayor despite how the violence is still probably going on. But again, that’s mostly interprative, Course, because this is all specifically Final Fight stuff, again, I think it should be resolved in a Final Fight game, which probably isn’t ever going to happen thus I wouldn’t be too surprised if this stuff stayed forever unresolved just like Anita vs Jedah in Darkstalkers.
SF3’s unresolved plotpoints mostly revolve around Gill, Urien, Alex, and to a lesser extent, Yun and Yang since they get foreshadowing in their ending (which indicates that they should be involved in whatever climax the Illuminati brings about). Ryu being trained by Oro is something that could be resolved in SF4, as opposed to Gill’s organization which by tradition should not have any role in SF4 (since each new SF game is always practically a clean slate).
As for SFA characters… can’t think of any besides Sakura, but as stated time and time again, that would require her not being a schoolgirl anymore with very little return, so to speak (we’d basically be getting a more perky female Ryu if we got a graduated Sakura, I think. Which would be kinda pointless since we already have… well, Ryu).
Continuing -
Hcparker - 5/13/03:
Well if it’s an illusionary power (Oro’s Power) why would Ryu bother learning it? I can see him taking time out to learn to channel ki better but I don’t really see him spending a great deal of time learning it.
Some stuff I could see being resolved:
Who won the tournament?
Ryu, Ken and Sagat’s fate in the tournament
When was Vega killed? Did his tournament opponent see his death (this would be especially interesting if Vega was facing Chunli or Guile, both of whom would be interested in learning more about Gouki).
There’s also:
Guy’s fate.
Adon’s fate.
the whereabouts of Sakura and Karin.
and finally Gen’s fate.
And of course the ultimate trump card:
DAN’S RETURN.
Continuing -
TiamatRoar - 5/13/03:
Hmm… I dunno.
(Re: SF2 Tourney winner:)
I’m not sure if this is really necessary plot-wise heresay so much as just a curiousity answer. Since the important thing of Shadoloo going down is all that’s really important to wrapping up the SF2 storyline, I think. None of the really ‘important’ characters entered the tournament for hopes of winning it, really, so much as to fulfill their own agendas (only the lesser plot characters like… er… I dunno. Zangief. The rest all can have their endings happen without winning it to the point where I don’t see how it’d matter much, save for Guile).
(Re: Ryu, Ken & Sagat’s fate in the Tourney)
Ryu: He went off into the sunset, as always. (SF2 ending, all versions)
Sagat: He didn’t get his match with Ryu, but continues to wait. It’ll be a match of the gods (His SF2 Revival Ending)
Ken: Approached by Eliza and married her (SF2 ending, all versions)
(Re: Vega’s death, did his Tourney opponent see it and might they take an interest in Gouki)
I supposed that could be an unresolved plotline, depending on how you look at it. I don’t really see it as too necessary to resolve so much as just another answer for curiosity’s sake, though, since the important thing was that Vega was killed, really. Whether Chun-Li or Guile were to learn about Gouki would be more of a potential new plotline than one that currently needs resolving, I think. Actually, the fact that there doesn’t seem to be any mention of it since SF3 indicates to me that neither learned about Gouki and Capcom thus doesn’t want to pursue that route (Guile’s pretty much wrapped up with living happily ever after with his family, and IMHO Capcom seems to practically be forcing themselves to have Chun-Li reappear due to fan outrage more than any want to give her anymore plot…)
“Guy’s fate.”
As I’ve stated before, that seems like it could be more a Final Fight thing.
“Adon’s fate.”
True. I completely forgot about Adon. That’s one of the weirder plotlines to leave dangling O_o It’s like… he’s had two games that foreshadow it then woosh, nothing. Strange strange Capcom.
(Re: where’s Sakura & Karin)
Eh, I still don’t think Capcom would reintroduce Sakura due to that whole school-girl-image-go-away-thing, even though it is sorta a valid unresolved plotpoint (though not exactly something I’d personally label as absolutely necessary to resolve). Karin really doesn’t have much stuff unresolved at all I can think of. She’s a rich girl who lives a rich life with no outstanding problems by the end of SFA3, and she’s even admitted to Sakura that winning isn’t everything and Sakura is better than her. There something I’m missing, here? Can’t really see anything that needs to be wrapped up for her at all, especially now that Shadoloo is gone.
(Re: Gen’s fate)
Yea, that one’s weird. But I suppose Capcom could technically just say tht Akuma killed Gen in his SFA3 ending and be done with it, as opposed to have to answer the question in an entire new game (I dunno if they’d go with Gen winning, since that would make them forced to admit that Akuma could lose which they don’t seem to care about doing, since I imagine they’d want to retain Akuma’s image and all). In fact, I don’t see how they COULD answer the question in an entire new game, since Gen will probably be dead by then either way due to his illness. What, have Akuma flashback about the battle or something? And then, if that were the case, I don’t see the point…
DAN’S RETURN.
Hehehe. But on a serious note, I’ll be honest when I say I really can’t think of much new stuff they could do with Dan, either, let alone old stuff unresolved.
Continuing -
GF2 - 5/13/03:
(Re: why Ryu would bother to learn Oro’s illusionary power)
Because it’s effective?
By the by: Why is everyone assuming that Ryu’s training under Oro as of now? There’s no mention of it anywhere, not even in Oro’s 3S ending. Would Ryu really be saying, “I thought I heard that strange old man’s voice?” if he was? That’s a give-away that he doesn’t see Oro often. That isn’t how he would address somebody instructing him. He shows more respect than that.
sano (ME!) - 5/13/03:
(Re: Oro’s 3S ending where Ryu is carrying the big boulder with Oro sitting on it)
This is exactly what happened in the Ryu Final Manga where Oro did take him on as a student. I’m not gonna say it influenced 3S since the Manga came out while 3s was being made so I can’t be certain.
We just assume he’s training Ryu, for the most part, but doesn’t the Plot Guide say something about Oro not looking for a student to train, but kind of torture while making them beleive he’s training them? That would fit the whole boulder thing… poor Ryu…
sano (again) - 5/13/03: (I can’t belive all these Posts took place on the same day! Who says 13 is unlucky!)
Though I suppose the Theme of old whacked out Instructer teaching Martial Arts in strange ways to a gullable Student is in so many Martial Arts Movies Capcom may just run with it in SF4. It’s even in Karate Kid to a lesser degree. “Wax on, Wax off!” Yeah, that would work in real life…
And yet again, when SF4 comes out, they could just as well ignore the whole thing making it a “Joke Ending.”
(This is the last Post I saved. After This, Hcparker Posted that Oro was getting old/about to die and it would make sense if he was looking for a successor, if memory serves).
(You may think I have a lot of free time on my hands, but I actually have to work on a big project tommorrow and will probably be up really late tommorow night! ACK! But this is nothing compared to all the work that’s been put into the Plot Guide by all who Posted above and my way of saying thanks. Me tired. Sleeps now.)
I said that Oro was feeling the passage of time and looking for someone to train as his successor in his style.
I can’t honestly see Ryu taking up a second style while he tries to perfect the one he is using.
I hate to break it to Capcom but if they think the PS2 or PS product has any sort of online future, they’re sadly mistaken on that one. I mean if they went ahead stated they were backing Sony because Sony was a Japanese company (and so is Capcom) I at least would understand their motives. As it is I’m not sure what the PS2 support means anymore since the system and company are poised for disaster in the coming years.
DC vs. Marvel? Yeah we know that’s coming.
Hmm… SF4 or SS2T.5???
maybe it’s time for MK vs SF…
MK vs. SF? Maybe Capcom can get some use out of the Cast of Capcom Fighting All Stars after all! Fatalaties vs. Dramatic Finishes! HA! HA!
Seriously, after hearing CFAS is cancelled/not cancelled/cancelled/not cancelled so many times I don’t know what to believe anymore. I’m waiting for an official announcement myself.
Unless MK was popular in Japan, they won’t do it, and even if it was, I doubt they’d do it.
Just something to add to the discussion. I want to mention some things including the effectiveness of the influence SnH overall. Was Ryu really that powerful when SnH awakened inside (he just took a cheap shot)? And does Akuma really have that much better with SnH? He became really powerful, but I don’t he’s able to control it as much as he could.
It’s something I mentioned in this thread:
Who Is The Strongest Hero Of Kof
Ryu was put up there as a joke, but it sparked a debate nonetheless.I think it’s around page 6 or 7 where the whole discussion with Ryu starts.
I doubt that Ryu’s shoryuken would have scarred Sagat that much if he wasn’t in SnH.
Actually, you either use it or you don’t. If you don’t want to kill your opponent, you’ll reduce your power to only render him unconscious. SnH isn’t that powerful, really, it’s just that the person “using” it doesn’t supress their power, which means that they’re using their full potential.
Which is why I think Ryu will never attain his full potential, he hasn’t been trained to kill, and thus, his SnH is “incontrollable”. When he wants to win, instead of making calculated moves that will hit, he basically rages on until the opponent’s dead. Which is why SnH Ryu is represented as someone who’s lost control.
Gouki was trained in SnH, knows SnH and has lived with it all his life. When in “Shin” Gouki, he still keeps control. He fights for death, and he assumes his opponent does this too, unlike Ryu, who just wants to win at all costs.
SnH Ryu is hella powerful, it’s just that his power is limited considering he acts more like a raging beast when being in SnH. At least, that’s what I garner from the games. Even though he’s never been in SnH for a long time, the games have shown us that this is the way that he would be and unless th ebooks say something idfferent, I guess we can assume this.
Bleh. Darn Capcom and their decision to allow multiple versions of the same character on the poll. Wanted to see if they’d have Mike and M. Bison separately but now it doesn’t really matter.
That Poll is silly! They should of had Chun-Li once instead of I dunno how many times! I wound up accidently voting for her SF2 version (she’s winning!) when I like her Third Strike Version better! Well, I gave her 3S Version a vote later on.
They should of had all the characters listed once and not let people write in names! Gorbachev is on the list! WOE!
Well, I think Capcom of Japan is just doing this for fun since they regularly Poll Japanese Fans anyways.
What poll? Is that the one where Capcom wants to knows how people feel about a new Versus game?
This Poll. Go to Character Rankings on the Next Page.
http://www.capcom.co.jp/sf15th/
If you need translations, there’s a Thread here in the Fighting Game Discussions and another one at -
Go to Bulletins here.
Basically, it’s Capcom of Japan’s SF 15th Anniversary Website!
Got it. I voted for Juni. Can you vote more than once?
I don’t think a microphone is actually put in the list. Maybe it’s just the translator messing things up.