I decided that the thing that clinched Hugo being Andore was the mention of his brother and grandfather and father. However, in the end, that mention could not be tracked down.
That was the official reason that I merged the two (a reason that is now defunct).
Unofficially, I actually merged the two simply because I got sick and tired of repeating myself TWICE for two entries instead of one. Of course, it’s up to Vasili to decide if he wants to deal with that now or not so it doesn’t affect me either way.
Characters’ entries in AAC aren’t separated because of artwork; they’re separated due to what was known for them during this game as opposed to what was newly introduced for the next game. In other words, it’s the fine print and not the pictures that decide in the separation.
In regards to Final Vega, Shin Gouki, and SnH Ryu and their entries: they’re separated because they are stated to be their counterparts with extra attributes gamewise. That’s what keeps Andore and Hugo broken apart in AAC. Final Vega is stated to be Vega with blank. Shin Gouki is stated to be Gouki with blank. SnH Ryu is stated to be Ryu with blank, and Ryu’s Z2 entry references back to SnH Ryu’s entry due to him having existed in this alternate state momentarily. There’s no such case with Andore and Hugo. Andore’s never stated to be Hugo with blank, or vice versa. The most envelope-muddling that Capcom’s done for Hugo is that he’s a former member of Mad Gear from Final Fight, and he’s stated to have an appearance just like those of the Andores. But the bottom line is, Hugo’s more developed storylinewise (and gamewise I’m sure) than any of the Andores were, and thus has the Andores as his prototypes, just as Mike from SF1 is M. Bison’s (boxer’s) prototype.
If it’s merely the fine print, why are there 3 separate entries for the SF2 characters? What different info was available between, say, WW Blanka, CE/HF Blanka, and Super/ST Blanka?
Also, if Hugo is stated to be a former Mad Gear from Final Fight… well, are we supposed to conclude that there is a mythical magical version of Final Fight where Hugo existed speifically (and was referred to as such) then? Or perhaps that they’re not referring to Final FIght the game, but some other Final Fight entity? The musical perhaps?
Capcom is, as usual, being needless coy about this. Maybe we should ask Seth or Sven on Capcom-Unity to ask Ono about it.
They might just give us the same answer (IE, an answer that is no answer)
That said, Hugo being stated to have been in Final Fight is one of those things that would indeed cause Phoenix Wright to shout “OBJECTION!” Thinking about it now, I’m not sure how that statement can be accepted if Hugo isn’t (an) Andore unless there really is a Final Fight musical that we are unaware of (but then, Edgeworth does usually manage to come up with a worthwhile retort… Maybe they meant that the Mad Gear gang was from Final Fight, and not Hugo himself? IE, “Hugo was in the Mad Gear gang, and the Mad Gear gang is from Final Fight”. But I forget the wording of the exact sentence)
WW- why his name is an alias (seemingly Spanish for the color ‘white’)
D/DT- flew to his uncle’s when he was 10 years old, Shadaloo’s to blame for the plane crash
Super/Super X- “bracelet” in his ending text changed to “anklet”.
Exactly, the mythical magical version. According to Eternal’s and the SF 15th’s words, Hugo (retroactively) existed in the realm/world of Final Fight as himself, a former member of Mad Gear and look-alike of those with the title Andore.
I’d love to hear what Ono-san would say. Would’ve been a hell of a lot better question at the SF4 interviews than what’s Poison’s gender for heaven sakes.
To me the most interesting part is still Poison who is Hugo’s manager but also shows up regularly standing next to Andore (not Jr.) who has the exact same colors (looks absolutely identical). If he/she wouldn’t exist, one might assume that Hugo is based on Andore designwise and fightingstylewise but doesn’t have much to do with him, and that the 15th a entry is a mistake or assumption by the authors or someone of Capcom not knowing better telling them, “yeah that’s that guy from FF”. But with Poison knowing both of them at the same time and age it would be weird that their colors are even the same. To me there are only two explanations.
They are one and the same. 2. Don’t think about it.
I like 2. Capcom hinted to 1. in Cody’s SFZ3 stage, Hugo has nothing to do with FF’s Cody.
Hum, I think that what Aerialgroove said is the correct thing.
They both could be the same character, but with different names for different “universes” (or even games). He could be Andore in FF games, but Hugo in SF games. Capcom might have wanted him to have a different storylinewise from one universe/game from the other.
BTW, does Andore has an entry in AAC? Since that FF is not a fighting game…
Oh yeah, and there’s almost a 10 year gap between the Zero 3 Hugo banner and SF3 Hugo. Also, if you look at Guy’s stage in SFZ3, Ibuki is with Hugo and Poison on the far left side.
About appearances (or character design)… I spotted a mistake on Vega’s entry, where it’s stated that he has his SF2 slimmer body look in Marvel VS Capcom 2, when in fact, he had his Zero buffed body.
Ultima
The only artwork that is shown in AAC is the in-game portrait. Some of the 12 original SF2 characters have 2 portraits placed together for a singe SF2 version…
The one with Andore and Poison in Guy’s stage in SFZ3 is most likely Mad Gear’s El Gado, one of Rolento’s henchmen, not Ibuki. Ibuki wouldn’t make sence, since she is neither with Hugo nor with Mad Gear or from FF.
Yeah he does. In that corner of Guy’s Z3 stage, you have Andore (not Hugo), Poison, and a nameless beggar/hobo/pervert (not Ibuki).
It’s actually not AAC’s mistake; it’s Capcom’s. The note is that Vega’s illustration (SF2 period) for MvsC2 doesn’t match his sprite (SFZ period). AAC’s pointing out that Capcom messed up there.
Knelt down he’s facing Poison and a few seconds later looks like he’s feeling up Poison’s leg. But you’re most likely right about him being El Gado, since in that stage Poison’s stated to be standing with Haggar and former Mad Gears, no unknowns. AAC for some reason doesn’t catch all the El Gado/Holly Wood cameos (all of the Final Fight cameos in general actually). My bad.
That might be something to follow up with Red Cyclone’s ryo perhaps. See if AASF does a better job of cataloging the Final Fight cameos, heck see if IT references Hugo to Andore and/or vice versa.
So does that mean that Capcom has retconned FF slightly then, and added another Andore (H.Andore?) to the batch of Andore, Andore Jr., F.Andore, U.Andore and G.Andore that appeared officially (?) in Final Fight? That seems… well, I guess it could fly, but as noted, why does Poison associate with Andore in FFR exactly as she does with Hugo?
Again, this is needlessly beating about the bush. I think there’s more than sufficient evidence to claim that Capcom has at least strongly hinted that Hugo = Andore an for us to make the connection, regardless of the lack of any official statement that states it outright. Especially since there’s nothing that contradicts it. It’s not like the M.Bison/Mike confusion, when those two have different stories, different appearances, and actually appear in the same game separately (namely SF2, albeit Mike only appears as a cameo in the intro).
BTW, reading through the guide,I see you’ve kept in a lot of Tiamat’s verbiage. You may want to trim some of that out.
Also, it’s confusing when you switch from American to JPN names. For simplicity’s sake, I’d say stick to the US names, but if you’re going to use the JPN names, you’re going to have to make sure and change ALL the names so that it’s standard throughout.
More comments/suggestions as I read more. Been busy of late.
Nope, because he’s not another Andore. He’s just Hugo, a former member of Mad Gear and Andore-look-alike who’s quit by the time of the gang’s final break-up if not sooner.
How exactly does Poison associate with Andore in FFR? Not that it matters since it is FFR after all, but more for my curiosity.
Hugo and the Andores have different stories; Hugo’s is somewhat more elaborate, but the driving spike that keeps them apart is their family backgrounds. I purposely left the Hugo/Andore section in the guide as one of the last things to handle, just in case anyone came up with something valid saying that Hugo has male in addition to female siblings, or something saying he brought other family members with him to America. And guess what. Nothing but crickets calling.
Maybe more as time goes by. I have trimmed a lot that I saw as just redundant.
The only instances where I use overseas names will be when I’m referencing overseas versions and originally overseas media (any Udon SF comic references for instance will use English names if applicable), and those’ll be few and far between as one peruses the guide. Feel free to cite any part though, where you feel that I should’ve used one or the other. I’ll either fix it, or let you know my reasoning behind my choice for it.
I’m pretty sure Vasili didn’t purposefully keep in a lot of my verbiage so much as that verbiage still being there is simply the result of the fact that it’s going to take a freakishly long time to remove it all.
I strongly recommend to use Japanese names as the Plot guide is about the Japanese canon and not at all about the US canon. And because the Japanese canon is the original canon and the names are the original names that go along with the original story. Mixing original story with unoriginal names is a new thing, neither the designers’ intention nor Capcom US’s intention.
I could help you with that, if it’s too much work.
Thanks, but I feel I’ve caught most if not all the switches for this update. Again if you come across any name spots I seem to have just overlooked, lemme know.
BTW, from the latest blog entry CJ’s character page is going to be updated the 30th at 4 pm Japan time. Which reminds me, gotta check Famitsu’s page now…nope, nothing new there.
Hum, looking at that *.gif stage, it doesn’t look like Ibuki. The reason I said that is because of the PSP version. For some reason, there’s a few black lines between Poison’s leg and the El Gado/Ibuki lookalike. Those black lines resemble a lot of Ibuki’s hair that sticks out of her hood. Sorry guys, my bad.
But even if she was… easter eggs doesn’t make much of a sense anyway (See the Darkstalkers, Strider and the others in Ken’s SFZ2 stage).
