Thanks so much Crayfish.:woot: Now I have the majority of the old thread to reference from.
Shi-Ten-Oh just refers to the four Shadaloo bosses. You never know though; Vega may be dismissed as a what-if just like SnH Ryu in Z2 and Z3. Gots to read his SF4 account when it comes. Rufus another hard-hitter eh…
Hey Sagatryu? Are you within the list in the Special Thanks section under any name?
In light of Crayfish’s archives, does anyone have this issue of Arcadia?
yes, Isaac Hamler
Thank you sir.:china:
I too wanna know where this “Ryu was most likely going to face Bison in SF2” info came from, since it’s news to me. What bout our theories of either Guile or Chun-li being that likely candidate since their endings are dependent on facing Bison? Also, what about Sagat dropping out? Cause that only works if Ryu lost somewhere before facing him. 
Anyway, it remains to be seen how they’re handling Bison’s return. It could go a number of ways:
A spare clone body (Gill’s organization reportedly got its “spare body technology” [see Urien’s ending in 3S] from Shadaloo). The only wonk is that SGS is supposed to have destroyed Bison’s soul, so if this is a clone, it can’t contain Bison’s soul. Not sure how they’re handling that.
Bison is dead and he’s just included for Sf2 fan service. If given a choice, this is the option I would have gone with.
They retcon SF2’s ending and Bison wasn’t SGSed by Akuma after all. Maybe Guile beats him straight up and walks away, and Chun takes down Shadaloo afterwards, but Bison remains alive. Maybe they’ll change it so that it’s in SFIV that Akuma SGSes Bison and finishes him off for good.
I’d go with choice 2 as well Ultima.
Chun-Li’s ending isn’t dependent on her facing Vega; only Guile’s, Cammy’s, and T. Hawk’s are. Of those three, only Guile’s has Vega working up more than just a sweat from his speech, regardless of Gouki’s Super X interventions. However, thanks to Sano’s past Gamest scans I discovered that Capcom released a resolving character relations chart just before 3S hit the arcades, that you’ll see together with a conglomeration of other charts in the guide update.
Seriously folks, not my fault if you fail to see and speak up at the huge postings.
If Ryu finds Bison’s remains, then that would mean Bison was already confronted and beaten by Guile, Cammy and T.Hawk before Akuma killed him. Capcom needs to give more thorough explanations on how multiple endings happen like this and in what order. Bison can’t lose to more than one opponent, but he can’t be confronted by them simultaneously either. This isn’t SFA. And SFIII has this same problem.
At the least, would that character chart say who lost to who?
But now that you mention fanservice, Donovan, Huitzil and Pyron weren’t supposed to be in VS, but they’ve been added in a later update. So it would make the most sense to have Bison in SFIV for just that. It could excuse the appearance of Sakura as a teenager, and numerous SFIII characters that wouldn’t fit in.
Minor correction: NOt sure about storywise, but VS’s character limitations were due to Capcom maxing the size of the CPSII roms.
Vasili:
Well, gonna have to check out the chart then. Maybe there’s another explanation for Ryu finding Dictator’s remains.
It’s true there were hardware limitations. In the arcade update, they were thrown back in at the expense of Rikuo, Talbain and Sasquatch.
But storywise, Donovan went corrupt after fighting the Darkstalkers and ended up seperated from Anita (his what-if storyline as Dee corroborates this), and Pyron was killed by Demitri. And keep in mind the dates the games take place in. NW and VS are almost two decades apart from each other, so Anita should’ve aged significantly. There’s no way for Donovan and Pyron to be in VS as they’re seen in the game canonically, unless they were intended to appear as fanservice. Huitzil was the only one given a valid excuse (malfunctioning and protecting a boy), but that was probably a last-minute decision because the Huitzils essentially lose their purpose without Pyron.
Last post here until my birthday. Gomen but Crayfish’s offerings have backed me off schedule by a small measure, and I really want to have 4.5 ready for everyone by the target date.
No Kataklysmic, the chart doesn’t say who lost to whom. It says that Vega’s still hellbent on siphoning off of Ryu’s body, that Gouki annihilated Vega, and that Ryu happened upon Vega’s smoldering remains.
Along with the knowledge that SF2 tiers include going up against nobody’s as seen in Fei-Long’s Super account, that Blanka did meet his mom at the final Thailand stage as told in HnN, and the condition of Vega’s ending being that there is NO ONE left in his way, here’s a probable theory to enable everyone’s Revival ending occurring, except Vega’s of course:
Vega sets up SF2 such that each of the other 15 fighters battle through 15 separate tiers, all leading to Vega at the end, and never having the game’s selectable fighters intersecting until the end, where Vega disposes of them one by one. If any of the 15 make it through his/her respective tier, they’re congratulated falsely for winning the tournament and transported to the ceremony (final) stage for their “recognition,” only to be deceived by a confronting Vega who proceeds pummel them.
This scenario could potentially make the following endings possible once Vega’s gone: Ken since he meets Eliza there, Honda, Blanka since he meets his mom, Zangief meeting his president, Dhalsim although he could bow out anytime he had enough money from disciplining ruffians (probably could sense when Vega’s evil aura had gone out as well), Fei Long since he meets the movie producer there, Dee Jay, M. Bison, and Balrog.
For Chun-Li, Guile, T. Hawk, Cammy, and Sagat; the message received after they’ve made it through their tiers would be along the lines of “Congratulations, you’ve earned the right to face your worthy opponent.” And for Ryu, “Congratulations, you’ve earned the right to fight the mighty.” Or something like that.
Now, Chun-Li doesn’t need to face Vega for her ending, and Sagat’s has him not facing Ryu, so they end up missing each other. I’d see Vega placing Sagat into a longer and more winded tier to keep him busy from reaching the end and facing Ryu, seeing this as another interference keeping him from his unhindered battle with Ryu that he swears he’ll have in his Zero 3 ending. So Sagat would enter SF2 for training, just as Ryu does.
For the remaining three, I see Hawk battling Vega first, simply because I now see Hawk hating Vega more than even Guile does (which is just what Vega would like to savor on, Hawk’s hatred), now that Nash died a hero’s death in Zero 3. Hawk lands some decent blows, but Vega tosses him aside. Cammy’s next. I’ll bet she does better than Hawk, but gets quite shaken up once she hears about her past, and Vega knocks her out as well.
Guile’s last. His vengeance just doesn’t seem as fulfilling to Vega as he may have expected, or the accumulating dents from Hawk, Cammy, and now Guile are starting to wear him down. But Vega’s bent on igniting hatred no matter what. He weakly cajoles Guile to kill him, trying to anger Guile by sounding like he’s taking the cowardly way out. Guile’s family stops him. Guile pulls away, Vega’s enraged and launches into a psycho crusher at the whole family. Gouki appears and grabs him from behind, and Vega buys the farm. Gouki vanishes, then later Ryu makes it there and happens upon a pile of flaming powder, Vega’s remains.
And that’s a theory. See y’all when the guide’s ready.
That’s actually not a bad theory, but the fact that only a few meet Bison makes the tiering structure somewhat confusing still. Is there a criteria for completing a tier and getting booted out at this point, or would the characters not fight each other so that Bison can deal with them personally? When you look at SFIII, you not only see that Alex isn’t the only character to fight Gill, but that certain ones are out after losing certain matches.
And Happy B-Day, BTW.
I’m adding a new theory
4.) Could SF4 be on its own new SF universe?Something Like a SFEX? While SF1-SF3 are still the original/prime universe.
The idea came something from Tas post speculation on Capcom bbs:
Bison got his teleport(not in Sf2) back like those players mentioned on 4th test play.
@vasili
Belated Happy B-day dude
Dude, they officially said it was between SF2 and SF3. Alternate universe my fuckin’ ass.
“Ooooh, Bison’s got his teleport which isn’t in SF2!”
Ryu has his Shin Shoryuken in A3 but that wasn’t in SF2 either. Give me a break.
Lots of people are sorta butt hurt that SF4 takes place before 3.
Don’t take it too personally K.
Perhaps Bison’s just in there for gameplay and fan service, and his story’s bogus.
Or maybe he survived somehow. We’ll find out soon enough right?
Look, everyone knows it’s set before 3. This “theory” that it’s in a whole new universe based on a trivial thing like Bison’s teleport is lame. It’s also the third time this guy brought it up. He just doesn’t know when to quit.
vasili:
Interesting theory. But for the majority of the endings to occur, does that mean they actually faced Dictator and got their asses beat? Or did they bow out before actually facing Dictator, with only Hawk, Cammy and Guile actually facing him?
Also, how do Boxer and Claw fit into this? Did they actually enter the tournament itself and fought like any other competitor against a bunch of nobodies, or did they face other named opponents as bosses, as suggested by the game itself? I would think, as lords of Shadaloo, they would have likely been enemies the other competitor faced nearing the end of their tiers.
I dunno, I see some holes in the theory.
Ono hinted something about parallel universe?
Plus bison should be depowered in Sf2 timeline
Shin Shoryuken in A3 was different from SF3 plus super were mechanics per SF game while special moves are different.
It was said happen earlier on Sf3 time but it could possibly in a different timeline like
SFEX happened after SF2 and SF3 happened after SF2 also.
Actually the teleport thing was minor. the thing was i’m pointing about is like SFEX situation and the parallel universe hinted by ono himself.
Why should i quit. Alternate Universe have been done before on many capcom fighting games like SFEX, MVC, CVS so i won’t be surprise to see it on SF4.
Everyone is speculating right now same as me and you about SF4 event and possibilities.
As for Fan Service i guess it similar to geese on KOF MI.
Maybe capcom imitated Snk concept on KOF MI?
I guess we have to wait and see the output when SF4 came out.
Yeah! Whether what happened i hope they keep bison playable and alot of SF2 fighters in the future SF games.
So what do we know about the fat guy storylinewise?
Who could he be based on?
[media=youtube]7Ljf8DK2gP4[/media]
The fat guy from HNK?
[media=youtube]yFcXPJbW_EQ[/media]
God damn American voices.
Or Mr. Heart?
[media=youtube]nanLTLUn3XE[/media]
He has blond hair though.
Capcom Town mentions Bob of Tekken 6 who is fat, has blond hair and dark rings around his eyes.
Chun-Li movie storyboard
http://capcom-town.es/__oneclick_uploads/2008/04/cl1.jpg
Guys, Vega wasn’t killed by Gouki back in 1994 when SSF2X came out.
This came to my notice when I received his stories in All About Capcom.
There, it says:
Super Street Fighter II X: Grand Master Challenge
Symbol of giant cruelties, during the series, suffers with the sudden appearance of a new character - Gouki, and, after being defeated, reveals a pathetic, completely humiliated image.
Notice that it doesn’t say that Vega was killed by Gouki.
You can also get to this conclusion on four SSF2X endings text (those texts were submitted by vasili a few posts back, a great job):
T.Hawk and Cammy has the following line after facing Gouki instead of Vega:
Vega: “Hmph…suffered damage haven’t I.”
(Then each endings goes normally with their respective texts, so Vega MUST be alive after being SGS by Gouki for these endings to happen)
Gouki’s ending when facing Vega says the following:
Gouki: "The emperor of evil is it…Hmph, don’t even open your mouth. The one of the ultimate fist wins. That is all."
Don’t even open your mouth? Why would he say this to a dead body? This is also on his Revival ending.
Guile’s ending has the biggest change between his normal and alternative ending. Here’s what you get when you face Gouki:
Guile: "Vega! What’s the meaning of this!"
Vega: "Hmph…just look. Isn’t it burning all around me…come now, kill me!"
Julia: "Dear~, don’t!"
Here we have 2 possible things:
1: Guile finds Vega and asks what was the meaning of the torney, OR…
2: Guile finds Vega after being SGS by Gouki, and asks what was the meaning of him being like that.
Now, the burning remains of Vega:
When I PM vasili about the lack of Vega’s death in AAC, he mentioned to me that his death was revealed ONLY when SF3: 3rd Strike was about to be released.
AND that in SF3: New Generation, he was recovering from Gouki’s move.
So, Vega was stated dead only in 1998/9. This new statement, would somewhat ruin the conclusion of SF2.
To my eye, the final events of SF2 went like vasili said, with the exception of Guile’s part.
To me it was more or less like this:
After T.Hawk, and then the Cammy battle, Vega was SGS from behind by Gouki. Shortly after, Guile found Vega with “a pathetic, completely humiliated image”.
When Guile was about to kill Vega, Julia and Cris appeared and stopped him…
And what happened with Vega? He was nursed by that girl just like on that old post-SF2 art, waiting to return…
Sorry Vasili, but Vega trying to Psycho Crush Guile’s family and Gouki “saving” them theory was kinda confusing. If so, Guile and his famili also would know
about Gouki’s existence.
Now, how come Vega survived SGS? That’s a good question, but it also could have it’s theories:
1: At that time, the SGS wasn’t mean’t to be a 100% killing move, depending of the fighter, he could survive. Gouki can’t SGS since he doesn’t have a Super bar;
2: Vega was powerful enough to survive it;
3: Gouki didn’t use SGS on Vega, as it’s shown in Capcom VS SNK when you fight CPU Gouki. There, Gouki makes a “slashing move” on Vega, “killing” him. I know CVS isn’t cannon, but,
it would kinda explain it.
So, if we don’t take into account Vega becoming a amount of flaming powder, he can perfectly be in SF4 without problems. Still… we need to read his SF4 account to be sure of what happened…:rolleyes:
Whew! Big post, but hope this helps to clear things a bit.
Yay! After so much time, finally the guide will be updated! Go Vasili!:woot:
New ending on Gba.
Actually the SGS sequence was removed on another version of ST revival GBA thats why in other version of ST revival if you meet the condition to fight akuma you won’t be going in** Thailand** but you go to Japan and fight gouki which has own stage the dawn japanese roof top.
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/gba/a/ssf2aku.htm
Vasili also mentioned that on capcom bbs corrected me about that info but the thing he explained to me was almost the same as you are but instead of SF3NG he said it was SFA3.
I think Capcom might be thinking using the old canon info on dictator?which is recovering.
Since Gen and Gill but i hope Bison could also or the SGS event was undone or move like ULTIMA theory #3?
I guess everything is official canon on the plot guide and change might only be reveal on SF4.
That’s would be pretty weird yes.
You mean this one shows him after the tournament?
So does anyone actually make it through the tournament and fight Vega in a real match (Cammy OR T. Hawk OR Guile)? What about the theory that Ryu left to let Chun-Li/Guile get to the final stage, is that still possible?