http://forums.shoryuken.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3743230
Don’t you think she had sort of a predisposition towards hypernatural powers, being a fortune teller and all that, or do you think the was a baker or a cook before? I see her more like Dhalsim or Gen being able to feel things others can’t and just waiting for signs. Then one day, Vega split into Yin and Yang and half of him popped into Rose so she could save the earth.
Whoops, there were physical wounds. Did I really say no physical wounds whatsoever in the guide? That’s odd. At any rate, Guy’s text in the US version of SFA3 has him commenting that the wound “doesn’t seem fatal, but she needs to be treated immediately” so it’s not thaaaaat far off from the Japanese version. I always felt the point of the dialogue was to show that Rose didn’t actuallyphysically DIE from the wound (which would pave the way for the whole body switching thing. Pretty sure Vega can’t switch to Rose’s body if the body is DEAD, after all. Then he’d be a lich or a zombie!)
I forget what all those other official accounts we have of Rose said (but they should be in the guide) and whether or not they indicated she was a fortune teller for how long (not that it’d help too much since I’m sure Vega split his soul looooong ago, anyways. When he murdered his master, if not sooner, and that was like 30 years ago!). She probably was at least somewhat special given that Vega’s soul chose her to go into (of course, it could have been just a coincidence, but…)
When I say “born a regular person”, I mainly mean that she was born the same way any person would be born, as opposed to manifesting into existance the instant Vega’s soul split (and as opposed to Rose being Vega’s soul manifested into a physical form, as opposed to just possessing a person who was already there or whatever). I didn’t mean to imply that she was necessarily born with or previously acquired no attunements or special abilities whatsoever.
Hilariously enough, this also removes part of the contradiction regarding Ingrid. At first, I assumed it was a contradiction because Ingrid implies that Vega named it Psycho Power, which made no sense because Vega’s master was the one who named it Psycho Power. Now, far as I can tell, it is indeed likely that Vega was the one who came up with the term, “Psycho Power”, because originally it was actually SOUL Power until Vega found a way to corrupt it into his own variant.
Of course, that doesn’t remove the contradiction of the fact that it was Vega’s master who originally wielded soul power, not Vega himself. Kinda hard for Vega to steal soul power from Ingrid when it was Vega’s master that originally had it.
Unless Ingrid and Vega’s master were one and the same (or something else along those lines), of course.
…that’d be messed up.
Heh, I always figured that with Ingrid Vega tapped into her power and took some of it when converting Soul Power into Psycho Power - as it gave him an extra boost or he is not completely responsible for the change from Soul to Psycho, something like that. I guess like how like in SF2V they say for Ryu’s Hadou he taps into nature. It’s still his Fireball, but if Mother Nature was a character she might stop by and say “I don’t like what you are doing young man!” 
So something like that with the Ingrid/Vega thing.
This is of course if any of Ingrid’s storyline actually happens. We know at least that she did not defeat brainwashed Ryu and she did not defeat Vega.
Isn’t it established that Vega’s master is male? At least Studio Udon admitted that they were allowed to change Vega’s master from male to female, which I guess would mean he is male. He’s always been a man in Hong Kong comics if that means anything, but maybe not 'cuz HK comics are loopy…
Very likely. A knack for tarot fortunetelling, unlike soul power, is something she was born with.
In the guide you said “no deep physical wounds.” I just brought it up to emphasize that you don’t read “wound” at all in the original text; it’s what CoA added in. But yeah the texts end up meaning almost the same thing.
Even longer, 30 years before SF2 was when the Thunderfoot tribe was eradicated, and his soul split must’ve been before his master’s murder since a psycho crusher was the cause of death.
My standpoint exactly on “being born a regular person.”
Yes indeed.
Canonically hadou does tap into nature as well as within the user. It’s what distinguishes Ryu’s projectile from say Chun Li’s which concentrates energy from within the user only and not the user’s surroundings.
Yes Vega’s master was male.
Special thanks to Pryde. Street Fighter on ESPN!
re: Vega-Rose
Damn. That’s pretty interesting.
Did Vega’s master create Soul Power, or was he merely the sole wielder of it before Vega? (and if so, does this mean that the two students Vega trained with have been retconned out of existence instead of merely forgotten?).
If Vega’s master wasn’t the creator of Soul Power, but merely the latest wielder, they have a means to deal with Ingrid (ugh): They could claim that the goddess that possesses Ingrid might have been the first to teach Soul Power to a human, or something.
Heh, I’m sure most of you know that Saiki had a theory that those 2 students were Urien and Gill. Course there’s nothing to support that, or really go against it either I don’t think. Kind of depends on how far they would of gotten under the master before Vega killed the guy. Their knee press seems similar to Vega’s head stomp, but that doesn’t necessarily have to mean anything of course.
I would be shocked if they ever revealed Gill and Urien as those two students though. Especially if they were retconned out of existence lol!
Sole wielder. The two students haven’t really been forgotten; they’re mentioned even in AAC, which also says (just further up the paragraph so I hadn’t immediately noticed) that Vega did go on a killing rampage after he offed his master. Golden Dragon had asked me long ago and I had said that only the students were mentioned in AAC and not the murder spree. But I stood corrected especially with Vega’s Dash account, where everything we know about his master comes from, sans the psycho power transition to soul power and his cautious words to Rose. The same account called the power terrestrial though, so Ingrid being extraterrestrial makes for a conflict about teaching soul power to a human.
Is there any info covering the Illuminati’s treatment of Shadaloo? I mean, the Illuminati has been in existence long before anybody in the SF universe was even born. So it’s pretty much an accurate assumption that the Illuminati was monitoring Shadaloo’s development and had spies within the organization. I doubt that the Illuminati would allow Shadaloo to exist without knowing every plan and operation that Vega initiates. Vega’s goals directly interfered with the Illuminati’s so I have trouble believing that the Illuminati would just sit idly by while Vega developed a weapon that could destroy any city on the planet with the intention of actually using it(that weapon is canon right?). It’d be interesting if it were retconned to say that the Illuminati put certain plans into action that ultimately lead to Shadaloo’s downfall. Like maybe the Illuminati leaked vital information on Shadaloo to Interpol and sabotaged some of Shadaloo’s operations. The Illuminati has been secretly determining world events for 2000 years so they had to have been doing something during SF1-2 in relation to Shadaloo. That’s a plothole that should be filled.
Is Go Hibiki a thai boxer or did he use a japanese martial art?
I once saw what looked to be official artwork of Sagat with a newly gouged-out eye, clutching a dead Go Hibiki by the head. Go was dressed like the archetypical thai boxer. The sprite artist Efex also depicts Go in thai boxer attire. These and other reasons lead me to believe that Go Hibiki was a thai fighter. Although there is contradictory material that makes it arguable that he instead used a Japanese martial art and wore a gi. In the SNK vs series, Dan often mistook Mr. Karate for his father. And in Pokect Fighter Dan could summon his father’s ghost, who wore a gi and tengu mask. This is more likely just another Ryo parody and has no insight into Dan’s character development though.
Also, why would Dan choose to learn Ansatsuken if his father was a thai fighter? Gouken was killed before Ryu got back from the WW1 tournament so that means that Dan trained under Gouken before Ryu defeated Sagat. This means that Dan had no outstanding reason to chose Ansatuken as the martial art for him to use to best Sagat. It’d make more sense if Dan were to make Muay Thai his primary martial art to honor his father and take Sagat’s title, smearing his pride(like Adon intended to do).
Does Gouki only kill fighters that he senses are on his level? Gouki’s wiki states that he avoids killing those he senses are weak. This is supported by the fact that he spares Gen’s life after learning of his condition and that he spared Ryu and Ken’s lives when they confronted him on separate occasions(for Ken after he finds Gouki after killing Gouken/for Ryu when they fight on Gokuento). Also if you look at the list of characters he’s killed or tried to kill, it supports that theory(Gouken, Goutetsu, Oro, Vega, Gill).
I ask this for two reasons:
-Up until today I always held that Gouki kills Adon at the end of SFA3. Adon confronts Gouki at the end and we are left to wonder, but it’s obvious that Gouki would win. And I assumed that Gouki wouldn’t hold back.
-If it were canon then it could be an interesting litmus test/power rating intended by Capcom. Gouki only proactively challenged fighters that had a certain amount of power and this creates a line. Above the line are fighters that Gouki senses are powerful enough to compete with him and below are those that aren’t.
This is how it looks to me:
Gill, Oro, Gouki, Gouken, Goutetsu, Bison, Gen
—The Line—
Urien, Ryu, Ken, Sickly Gen, Adon
The reason I included Urien is because after I applied The Line to the cast of characters in SF, he’s the only one I could think of that would fall below The Line(because Gouki didn’t challenge him) but be good enough to probably defeat Ryu. Since Urien never actually encountered Ryu or Gouki, I’m left wondering.
I’m pretty sure there was an official source that CONJECTURED that the Illuminatti and Shadaloo were connected somehow (forget what), but that’s about it.
Hypothetically speaking (since we have no word or confirmation on what the heck ever REALLY happened to Adon), Gouki might have killed Adon not because he saw Adon as a worthy opponent, but simply because Adon pissed him off. I don’t think Gouki has much of a tolerance for people like Adon.
Does being a goddess count as extra-terrestrial? I always assumed extra-terrestrial was reserved for aliens and other planets, not necessarily gods and other dimensional planes (assuming Ingrid resides on another dimensional plane as a goddess, which she may or may not do). In this regard, I figured the darkstalkers were technically terrestrial (not that DS and SF occur in the same continuity, but hypothetically speaking)
Course, odds are that the account meant that soul power was not supernatural (IE, developed by mortals?) when it said “terrestrial”, anyways, I suppose. Not sure why an official account would go out of its way to disclaim that soul power didn’t come from aliens, after all.
I’m not currently aware of any source that describes Gill’s organization’s relations to Shadoloo. “Illuminati” in this case is just a term used for convenience. About the only thing the two have in common is hosting world fighting championships from time to time, for various purposes of course. The psycho drive is a canon weapon, the drive’s currently destroyed, its cannon probably remains but is inoperable.
Hibiki Gou was a Muay Thai fighter. I haven’t gone into all of Dan’s accounts yet, but for now I’d say he chose ansatsuken because with his fuming rage and desire for vengeance on Sagat, he didn’t care for anything else much less pride or honor, and an “assassin’s art” could draw him in all too easily in order to make Sagat pay with blood several fold.
If you ever remember the source, let me know please.
Terrestrial means of the earth or of the world. If Ingrid’s a goddess, then she isn’t from within the SF world, she’s outside of the world but still within the universe. Space aliens, angels from heaven, demons from hell, and deities all originate from outside of the earth, and are considered extraterrestrial.
Heh, the Ingrid thing doesn’t sound as forced now. This is all VERY interesting. :tup:
There’s one more thing amiss: those with Alpha 3 Max, Ingrid accuses Bison of stealing her power, correct?
Yeah it seems that way. The dialog’s in our faq, second link in my sig if anyone wants to check it.
Okay, that’s what I thought, and shoot I forgot the dialogue was in there.
Sorry about that sano. In Double Upper it’s not quite the same case. It’s not power but rather Ingrid’s crest that Vega stole (never mind how BTW), which in her ending is shown to be the psycho drive’s core, the same thing labeled as the “catalyst” in her Alpha 3 Max ending.
Hmm, if Ingrid was complaining about Vega stealing her crest from her (as opposed to Vega stealing her nonphysical power/energy from her) and assumed that Vega renamed the crest itself (or the energies from the crest) to Psycho Power, then I think there’s technically no contradiction there (but alas, no horrid conspiracy theories about Ingrid being Vega’s master, either! )
Hum, I don’t think Ingrid has anything to do with Soul Power… you see, she doesn’t care about Rose at all…
To my eye, Ingrid, better saying, her power, is the only possible thing that enabled Vega to split his soul and corrupt his Soul Power teachings into
a new form of power (that he decided to name it Psycho Power). This was portrayed in the SF2 UDON comic as being the forbidden manuscripts that Vega dared to read.
My bet is that Ingrid and Vega never really fought (or if they did, Vega just ran away to meet his doom in the Psycho Drive chamber after meeting Nash and Guile). After seeing the explosion,
the power went back to Ingrid and she just “walked” away.
Ingrid’s crest? I don’t get it. 
Is it one of those disks that she uses on her head? Cuz, if in the end of Zero 3, Ingrid gets her crest/disk back, then, Vega on his new body, has Soul Power, not Psycho Power during SF2 (only if now he knows how to change his Soul Power to that form without the use of the crest.) That would lead us to… Soul Crusher? LOL!
Hey, Vasili10, Can you check something for me/us? It’s on Rose SFZ3 dialogues and ending:
1- When Rose fights Balrog she mentions (after the fight): “Once divided, two separate fates unite.” This could lead us to believe that somehow Rose knew that she and Vega could be one… or it could be just the master/student relationship.
2- when she mets final Vega, he says: “A Rose without thorns means friendship… Come now… I should never have allowed you to grow thorns…” Rose replies: “No! That obedience is what caused all this tragedy…” What obedience?
3- During her ending, Rose gets hand-knifed by Vega and he says “Just imagine your future…! Can you see it?! Can you see who truly
wields the power granted to us? It is YOU who stands victorious in the world of eternal doom!” This power, can only be Soul Power, since, that’s what Vega’s power was originally. Rose then realizes that she will be the one to spread havoc in the world.
Vega then says: "Right…we’ll return to where we belong…as was our wish! Two separate lives share the same…soul… " Where do they belong? And what is that “wish” thing?
So, Vasili, could you please check if any of those items was mistranslated? I would really appreciate this. Thanks.
And, I’m not sure if the words that Rose’s master said to her was in fact Vega’s master… you see, if she could remember that, she surely would know everything about Vega…
BTW, I know ppl hate it but… Rose’s dream about the world being engulfed with flames… that’s the same way that an episode featuring her of that crappy american cartoon begins. She also mentions during the episode, how she saw Vega for the first time.
Then a picture of Vega walking is shown… with his body engulfed in Psycho Flames just like his SFZ3 intro as a final boss. I wonder if CoA had access to those jap accounts…
Speaking of accounts, let’s see if Vega’s SFZ1 account can shed some light into this subject, since in SFZ1, Vega has Rose as his final boss…
Thanks for all guys!
What Vega renames, which in turn peeves Ingrid the most, is “her crest” becoming “his psycho drive.” What makes her entire Double Upper story including her battles filler in my opinion is 1) Vega’s somehow stolen a supposed goddess’ crest which serves as the nucleus of the psycho drive yet she can manipulate it at any time to work against his designs, and 2) she’s capable of getting the crest back without even confronting anyone, knowing immediately that when Vega says “psycho drive” it’s the crest renamed which annoys her.
Ingrid acknowledges that Vega’s named his power psycho power; that doesn’t really bother her; it’s that he’s using her crest as the core of the psycho drive, so the crest essentially becomes the psycho drive itself. That’s why she’s conveniently on this detour of her mission. Yeah the crest is like the disks on her head.
Vega in his new body would still have psycho power because he would still have a greater tendency for evil than for good. It’s not Ingrid’s power that enabled him to shed his goodness, nor does Ingrid’s power or crest convert soul power to psycho power. His ego and burning hatred enabled him to split his soul.
Rose would remember everything about Vega before his soul emptied of goodness. I have no doubt about that. His SFZ1 account unfortunately doesn’t go into that topic. It covers his fight with Gouken.
Sure Lord Vega:
1- not quite the same but ends up meaning the same. As her Zero 3 battles approach, she feels & realizes more and more that she has a part of Vega in her, especially after having physically witnessed him at least twice by this time.
2- quite different, no rose n’ thorns lines or friendship as far as I can tell from skimming, but obedience or submissiveness is in there. He means she was obeying when she was learning about everything, seeing the visions, sensing the evil and not yet taking a stand against him, including leaving him alone after Zero 2 because she felt he was through, that counted as obedience in his view.
3- I’ll get to that one tomorrow, additions mixed in with same text.
That’s no problem, because every game has its own canon as Capcom told Studio Udon. My personal opinion is that this desicion was made while they did SFZ3 and realized that they had too much material and ideas to stuff inbetween Z2 and SFII but it’s defenitely true to all games after SFZ3 and the reason why characters like Ingrid can appear in the SFZ series. I’m not trying to stop you making sence out of that Ingrid story, I find it very interesting, just keep in mind that there is no reason for it all to make sence. After all SFII is not really necessary for SFIII and why would Vega invite people like Zangief who opposed him in SFZ3? Why would Sagat be there if he quit Shadaloo back then and so on.