What does Guile’s wife call him? Guile?
Ah ha! I shall declare that Vega having a weaker body in SF2 is canon because Udon said so in the RAW. I mean, seriously, they couldn’t possibly be using the plot guide as its source on an issue THAT big, could they? Thus the missing link divide between what Vasili confirmed and what Saiki said grows ever smaller! Ha! /jackassery
I’ve actually come to the conclusion that T. Hawk not mentioning Julia or Noembelu to Bison in SF2 wasn’t much of an issue a while ago (which is why I deleted the paragraphs pertaining to that. …or TRIED to, but obviously I missed some). After all, that happened three years ago and I don’t see why T. Hawk would need to bring that up when that chapter’s closed and there are bigger issues at hand.
The main issue I see with T. Hawk is that his SFA3 ending says he returns to his homeland. How does he return to his homeland if Bison still has it in SFA3? Maybe this was a mistranslation or something and the actual ending in the Japanese version says that he just returns home? Whether his SFZ3 ending fully happened or didn’t, the mere possibility of him returning to his homeland doesn’t make any sense, really, because as you’ve pointed out, in his in-game storyline, he didn’t fight Bison to regain his homeland in SFA3 either. He only fought him to get back Julia.
Regarding Julia’s fate herself, My assumption if Capcom wanted the happy ending route (which I don’t see why they wouldn’t, but maybe they’re sadistic) is that T. Hawk found Noembelu/Juli after Cammy fixed and then transported them away via the Psycho Drive. That way, he could find the girl and she’d live, too. Making T. Hawk go through all that trouble for a 16 year old girl to die seems kinda cruel. Then again, T. Hawk in general never did have the happiest storyline either so mweh?
Of course, assuming it’s Juli and not Noembelu, I find it difficult to imagine that not being the case. Because if Juli’s ending happened, which it probably did because it’s basically Cammy’s ending, and both are really the only ones that tie into the official statement of the Dolls turning on Bison, then I see no way for T. Hawk’s ending to happen unless he found Juli after she got fixed by the Psycho Drive.
Although it works for Noembelu too if you assume it was all the Dolls that got transported away.
This all assumes Cammy fixed them with the Psycho Drive, which is specifically what Saiki said. Does AAC or AASFZ3 mention any of that? I find it hard to imagine that it’s not true, though. After all, Cammy specifically says to Juli in her ending, “You will survive and live”, and I don’t see any point to Cammy teleporting them out via the Psycho Drive if they’re all just going to die, anyways.
Stop being so damn lazy and go find it, yourself. There’s a dialogue FAQ for SFA3 up at Gamefaqs, you know. I know exactly which characters it comes from in the game, but you aren’t going to read what I say anyways. You’ve obviously never paid attention to anything else I said if you’re STILL bringing up pathetic outdated arguments about Bison losing to 18 different people when we’ve already gone over that a billion times already.
Should’ve rechecked this one. If Cammy saved all the dolls and transported them through the psycho drive, either Hawk didn’t find them at all or he did but they remembered nothing. Or he found them, got subdued, and still came to with them remembering nothing. What you said above Tiamat.
Guile’s wife Julia calls him “dear” in his SF2 ending, so we don’t know beyond that.
Funny, about a week ago I got the SFII comics by Udon and when is saw the scene there was just one thing that came to my mind:
PLOT GUIDE!
I like to think that Julia and Noembulu are with Thunder Hawk and all the dolls wound up being transported to E.Honda’s dojo by some fluke and are all his students now. Which is of course unofficial as all get out, but I like happy endings. 
Hey, it could happen.:wgrin:
In AAC Z3 entries do indicate that many if not all the dolls were taken in by Honda to stay with him until they felt that they remembered more about themselves. Cammy fixing/saving and teleporting them through the psycho drive are strictly from the game’s endings.
Yeah, I was wondering why so many Japanese fansites almost acknowledge that part of Honda’s SFZ3 ending as fact. I suppose there’s no reason why that ending couldn’t have happened to some degree.
I’m almost certain that Guile is the last name, seeing as how the title “Major Guile” was written below his portrait in an official art that aerialgroove posted a while ago. The class/rank title wouldn’t be followed by the first name unless you were saying the person’s whole/full name (i.e. Colonel William F. Guile).
And why come everyone keeps saying Fei Long’s ‘Revival’ ending was changed (or modified in accordance to SFA3) in comparison to his original SSF2 ending? Lemme remind y’all that Capcom USA mistranslated his SSF2 ending. He does the same thing in his Japanese version SSF2 ending as he does in his ‘Revival’ ending (quits the movie biz), more or less. Unless, of course, you’re arguing with only American endings in mind. In which case, I’ll just shutup.
vasili10
I didn’t know the SF2 series cast was provided with new accounts in Revival. I assumed Capcom didn’t bother since it was just GBA port of an old game. Where’d you find them?
That’s what I had suspected after hearing from aerialgroove who has the book also, and mind you they are fairly short, but nonetheless slightly modified. They’re from the SSF2X Revival Taisen Saikyo Manual.
Thanks! Wonder what Udon will do with the Dolls seeing as how they are getting big time exposure.
Speaking of Erik Ko, he recently posted this in regards to complaints of RS being Black and White -
“Seeing how you guys are so against BW books, I guess I should stop pursuing the rights to reprint other SF comics from Japan…”
:sad:
Anyone who wants to see these books in English please go tell him otherwise:
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3141043#post3141043
I had an itch, and I forgot!
Hmm, so AAC doesn’t mention/imply Cammy’s ending happened. Does AAC mention anything about all the Dolls turning on Bison? I always found it interesting that Saiki mentioned that as official while not going out and saying Cammy’s ending was official (which is why it’s marked as “Conjecture based off in-game storyline and official statements” rather than “Official”)
Yea, I started leaning more towards Honda’s ending happening in some form as well. It helped to give at least a little bit of closure to the Dolls as opposed to leaving the Dolls 100% open as to where they all flew off to (Juli/Noembelu excepted, of course). With Street Fighter Alpha 3 officially being the last Alpha, odds were pretty good that Capcom would not want to leave any particularly big questions still open.
…of course, there’s still Adon, but besides him, it’s easy enough to assume what happened to most characters after SFA3 (some like Rolento and Sodom still had potential plots open, but they didn’t have any QUESTIONS open, which was the important part).
This is unlike SFA2, where lots of characters’ endings were obviously made with a sequel that was NOT SF2 in mind (Sagat, Ryu, Adon (again), and Birdie come to mind).
Nothing that I could catch in the entries; those with the ability to disprove me are always free to speak up.
Once again though, from the game’s endings, Cammy does face multiple if not all the dolls as her speech indicates more than just one person, and the same group in turn unleashes on Vega.
"http://fightingstreet.com/folders/variousinfofolder/shoryukencomfolder/oldgamefaq/Saiki71.gif"
Replace the 71 in the URL up to 78.
Zangief Hagger
http://www.geocities.jp/redcyclone0601/dabunfile/dabun20/dabun20.html
Fist Of The Norh Star and Street Fighter
Ryu and Ken’s Hurricane Kick is a straight copy of one of Kenshiro’s moves. Only difference is that Ryu and Ken move forward doing the move and Kenshiro stays in place.
But yeah, Ryu shares a a few things in common Kenshiro. Often seen walking into the sunset and his master was killed by his greatest rival Raoh/Gouki too. Both also wander the Earth. Kenshiro even has a move that looks exactly like the Hadouken(before even Dragon Ball started), seen in the mangas but never in any of the animes, but it’s really different from how say, Dragon Ball showed projectiles, which SF’s Hadouken is a lot more like. In Hokuto Ki is shown as floating all over the place (something like the first movie during his final battle with Raoh) while in Dragon Ball you can form it into a white ball and throw it.
Oh and in Hokuto No Ken 2, there is a God that stands over Gouki (kind of like Jojo’s Stand in Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure) a few times that is a dead ringer for Gouki, but it’s based on the same God Gouki’s design is based on.
That pic of Vega riding the horse is from the Street Fighter II V manga, the one I posted before some time ago. I don’t recall him riding a horse anywhere else other than that manga.
TS:
> Ultima- Right, Capcom changed the story, but just never bothered to actually adress any of the changes.
You mean not in-game. That’s because Capcom is Lazy (re: Revival being only a half-assed update) That doesn’t mean that the changes were not addressed. Where the hell do we get info like Sagat no longer being in Shadaloo from?
> The only things SF2:Revival alters are the Ryu/Sagat relationship, Cammy, and Fei Long. If you’re saying that Capcom changed that, fine- then SF2 is void, right?
1991 SF2, yes. There wasn’t much to void, which is the entire point.
> And therefore SFA3 can’t precede it. If you’re saying the entire backstory has been changed, there’s really nothing to back that up at all.
Holy I haven’t been paying attention to this thread Batman!
For the mentally impaired: Retro active continuity takes priority over what went before. It doesn’t matter what the story was “back then”, what comes later takes precedence unless someone in authority says otherwise (e.g. see Midway pretending that most of MK4 doesn’t exist; at least, that’s how it was prior to this new one they’re working on). Thus, it doesn’t matter what SF2 was like “before” - It HAS been changed, and Revival’s changes (few as they are) PROVE it. We just don’t know all the details, mainly because Capcom themselves don’t know/don’t care about most of the details. A lot of characters weren’t directly affected by being in both SFA3 and SF2 anyway, so its moot. I can’t believe you could be this stupid.
> So it’s best to look at them as different games instead of trying to cram them together (even Revival only took a handful of elements from the Alpha games).
Revival was an incomplete, half-assed update story-wise. They could have done any of a number of things with it, like add mid-boss dialogues, but said “fuggit”. Who plays SF for the story anyway? >:|
The original 1991 released SF2 had no storyline to speak of. It was unnecessary. It had a basic outline for each character, and that was it. The Alpha series was meant to change that, but they decided along the way to not just use the Alpha series to tie into SF2 and add flesh out its backstory, but to actually update SF2’s woefully barebones story as well. This updated version, which doesn’t take place in game form aside from Revival in small doses, takes priority over the original version. This is how retcons work. I told you twice to look it up, because you clearly did not understand what is meant by retroactve continuity, and instead you just continued on your stubborn path like a total dumbass and refuse to accept the blatantly obvious. Don’t bother arguing furtherm, because you lost before you started. Just accept that you were wrong and we’ll be done with it. NI won’t hold it against you.
[remaining rubbish deleted]
:rolleyes: You say if Capcom claim the new game is canon, it just overrides the older ones and their story. But if Capcom claim each game takes place in a different universe it’s not what you like to hear and you start to insult.
aerialgroove:
Nigga please. There is too much evidence that, while Capcom may have thrown their hands to the winds with SF’s story recently, when SFA3 was created this was not the case. Back then they still cared. TS’ entire argument about “SFA3 doesn’t flow properly to/SFA2 flows better to [ancient story-line less] SF2” is irrelevent.
BTW, if you want to go by your faulty logic, then Tiamat should erase the entire Plot Guide and we should ask the mods to delete this thread. Cause what’s the point, right? >:|
Random directionless inspiration for fanfiction! You know what they say. Ignorance is bliss!
Again, Stupid != Unofficial. So one can insult it by calling it stupid without saying it’s false, which is my policy towards the thing as well as why the plotguide addresses that (which I’m not going to repeat here. I’m tired of repeating myself thousands of times). Otherwise, as I’ve constantly stated and Ultima pointed out, there’s really no point to the plot guide or this thread. Unless you want random directionless inspiration for fanfiction, but I find it doubtful that people like Saiki or Vasili were/are going out of their way to dig up all this information for that.
I’m not saying that each game takes place in a different universe, I’m just saying that either you go strictly by what Capcom say or you see it as a lot of different people who might not know each other(s work) too well to give detailed info about every game to satisfy a super informed fan boy. Either you go by Capcom or not.
One does this another one does that, it’s not one creator so I see each game separately, independent from the storyline question. Therefore each game is interesting to me, even if certain things HAVE to get scratched to make things fit more.
I know that you started the Plot Guide with SFA3 and that seems to be the main focus of the plot guide. I started with SFII and that’s what I’m all about. I understand that SFZ3 can override older games but I have the strong hunch that you will not disregard any SFZ3 info just because a new game will override it, which will probably never happen, since the story continues in the future. You just have your focus on that part of the series, which is cool. I’m mainly here to find old SFI, SFII, MB and FF info and art and I do care if Capcom states it as unofficial but I still want it (ie Oujou san).
To me by taking SFII into SFZ3 they didn’t change SFII, they just changed the time. SFII can’t happen how it did, with the Tournament and all, it wouldn’t make any sence that Vega invites all the people who tried to destroy his psycho drive and base. There is no room for SFII even a changed SFII in a SFZ3 world. There was room for a veeery slightly changed SFII in a SFZ2 world though. This TO ME shows that SFZ3 was not inteded to be taken canon IF THERE WAS ONE AT THE TIME and that it’s about the game modes and number of characters, not the story.
HOLY CRAP!!! ^Is it just me, or did that make absolutely no sense?
I’m gonna attempt to respond to tha parts I understood (I think).
- Obviously, the whole series’ storyline wasn’t planned at once. No one is making that claim. Just 'cuz the same team of writers didn’t write/conceive the storyline for each/every SF game doesn’t mean the games aren’t connected storyline-wise. For example, movie sequels often have different directors/writers than their predecessors.
- We haven’t found any official sources that support the theory that M. Bison sent out invitations in the first place, so…
About the games connected to each other or taking place within separate/parallel universes, the plot guide’s Continuity section’s last sentences sum it up: Capcom’s been saying and supporting both ever since the Zero series surfaced, often at the same time. Parallel universes isn’t a recent stance or retcon, and I wonder if it’s because each 1-player arcade game you play has you going through a continuity that can never completely match overall universal canon from start to finish. Hence why both game views are analyzed in printed sources, examples include AAC’s character entries for connected views, and Eternal’s game ending comments for parallel views. When all sources are combined however, info supporting connected views continues to far outnumber the info supporting parallel views. Thus I feel that Capcom indicates overall universal canon still overrides those separate universes we see as we play on our own, and that’s what the plot guide is all about, the overall picture.