Great stuff on T.Hawk vasili10! I’ll scan Itoh Mami’s T.Hawk manga next on Saturday so everyone can see it. Can’t wait for you to post up on Feilong vas!
The Rival Schools comic #1 comes out today, get mine in an hour. :tup:
For Marvel comparisons the SFZ3/SF2 ordeal seems like how Marvel changed how Iron Man became Iron Man by removing him being in the Korean War. Or how the Fantastic Four originally was in a rush to go to outer space in issue one to beat “the commies” in the space race. As the first X-Men/Fantastic Four limited series reveals that it was Reed Richards plotting for them to obtain super powers because with all of the super powered people and Mutants that were coming up he felt the world would need them. Of course the Iron Man one is a more blatant retcon while the FF one can use both explanations without too many exceptions(but the commie space race ordeal is never mentioned). To me Deadly Genesis seems it can actually fit into the storyline if you take the obligatory grain of salt that goes revealing this back story, like Cassandra Nova and other things X-Men seems to pull out of nowhere. Unlike, say, Toxin’s origin which still doesn’t make too much sense - Venom has had other children so Toxin being the next symbiote after Carnage is wrong unless this occured long ago, Black Cat has met both Venom and Carnage on various occasions and even met Venom before Carnage was born unlike the Toxin series states - but Marvel has embraced him into their continuity, with his Marvel Encyclopedia entry removing what # symbiote he was to not conflict with Venom’s Marvel Encyclopedia entry.
Yeah, Marvel’s continuity has some glitches, but at least lately they’ve been trying. DC sort of gave up on it, and just point to either of their 'Crisis" stories to explain any changes. Even the DC Encyclopedia says, “Continuity is what you make of it, believe what you want!” Something to that effect. So much so that they can introduce Supergirl twice in the same new continuity, because she wasn’t popular the first time they brought her out they just brought her out again in Superman/Batman and since she was popular there that was the legit explanation. But in DC’s defense, it seems like they are sticking to their guns with their new/third continuity going on now after their latest crisis.
Even Marvel and DC’s attitudes towards revamps is different. Marvel calls Ultimates a new continuity, while DC refers to their All Star comics as a new way to tell older stories. But it is a new continuity, funny, they just don’t want to sound like they are jacking Ultimates… but I read All Stars and not Ultimates, 'cuz I just can’t start Marvel continuity over again in my head, DC no prob…
Both DC and Marvel are great though, or cause an equal amount of headaches down the line…
Because Native Americans from the Rockies don’t have beards.
Well, just like the world record for keeping your breath underwater is less than 9 minutes and Sagat can go 20 and that beans don’t give you the power to spit fire…
About Zero 3, I think they didn’t spend too much time on the story, it’s a gameplay game like MVC2 with lots of characters and game modes. I think there is a possibility that they exaggerated the story so much (Vega being atomized instead of just dying, Sagat’s statue being a giant robot, which is just impossible, all the characters meeting and working together while they’re not shown together in SFII,…) just to show that it shouldn’t be taken too seriously and that it’s basically just the typical Capcom way to show HOW characters are. Just like they don’t worry too much about a SF movies story as long as the main characters are depicted correctly. I’m not sayin none of the SFZ3 events happened, I’m just saying most of them don’t matter and some are intedned nonsence.
It isn’t hard to figure out that lots of Z3 events are intended nonsense if you’re taking from the game. Charlie’s ending (AKA Kenny’s Revenge), for example. Some endings contradict others as well (Juni’s vs Juli’s). But even after you weed out all the nonsense ones and use the left overs to determine which endings are probably what-if (example: Juli’s ending taking precedent over Juni’s due to basically just being an alternate depiction of Cammy’s), nearly every character becomes accounted for (not including SFA3Max). The main points of contention thus must be whether the ones that aren’t obviously nonsense happened at all (and within those, the ones that anyone actually gives a crap about like Cammy’s, Guile’s, Ryu’s, Rose’s, and any related ones like Sagat and Sakura. I don’t think many people care about whether or not Balrog’s ending happened).
Getting to the main point in question, I think that if Capcom really REALLY meant for absolutely NONE of SFZ3 to lead into SF2, they wouldn’t have included things like Cammy losing her memory or Charlie dying in SFZ3. There isn’t much point to doing an alternate universe if you aren’t going to actually make things ALTERNATE. Sure, there were some discrepancies like Fei Long and T. Hawk, but both of those are minor characters (and Capcom went out of their way to change Fei Long’s SF2 Revival ending anyways). Well, I guess Sagat wasn’t exactly a minor character, but his plotline started to deviate ever since SFA2, really, and for sense or for nonsense, they decided to resolve his SFA2 plotline with what he got in SFA3 (…and he too had his ending changed in SF2 Revival anyways. Actually, it’s possible that he was dropped off of Shadaloo’s roster ever since SSF2X). Regardless, if they had intended absolutely none of SFA3 to have happened regarding SF2, they wouldn’t have had Charlie die or Cammy split off from Shadaloo.
Also, if they really intended on Bison/Vega’s death in everyones’ endings to be indisputable proof that SFA3 were alternate from SF2, they wouldn’t have inserted all those lines about him returning someday. Typically, a storyline writer doesn’t do stuff like that unless the villain will actually, you know, return, and of course since SFA3 is was directly stated to officially be the last SFA game (barring retcons), the only place Vega/Bison can return is SF2.
On a side note, I imagine you don’t see any characters together in SF2 because SF2 is practically storyline-less besides the endings. It’d be interesting to see what they came up with if they ever remade the game to have mid-boss dialogues and character-to-character intros and win quotes but I think we’ve had enough SF2 iterations already :lol: But anyways, just because characters don’t interact doesn’t mean the connections didn’t exist. Lee and Gen had a storyline connection yet no one has ever shown me a time when they interacted in SF1. Adon and Sagat had a storyline connection yet I certainly don’t see them talking to each other in SF1 either. Chun-Li and Yun storyline-wise know each other yet their interaction within the actual game of SF3 is dubious at best. Ken and Ryu never say one word or even MENTION each other in their SF2 endings yet they had storyline-connections. Therefore saying that SFA3 (or most of SFA3?) should be discounted just because none of the characters in SF2 are shown interacting with each other doesn’t make very much sense. SF2 is a game without mid-boss dialogue and where they could only cram in brief endings. SF1 was the same thing. Yet the latter had character connections that were never shown in game, so why would the former not be the same thing? Especially when there’s already one concrete example (Ryu and Ken, whom were never shown interacting with each other in-game during SF1 either, for the record).
Really though, why is the plot guide so adamant about M. Bison getting a new body?? Why do we still consider that official when it’s completely unsupported? Haven’t we come to realize that sometimes Saiki’s word isn’t enough?? Now don’t get me wrong. After reading M. Bison’s Z3 entry in AAC, I believe now more than ever that SFA3 and SF2 are connected storyline-wise and that M. Bison survived the events of SFA3 somehow. However, I’ve never understood why M. Bison getting a new body was considered the official explanation for his return in the SF2 series when we have found absolutely nothing to support it. Why is everyone so quick to accept that as fact?? Wouldn’t that be a perfect example of a remaining remnant from the days when the plot guide wasn’t as strict as it should’ve been?
I’m not quick to accept that as a fact.
Tiamat, what I meant about the charaters appearing together is not that I think they don’t have anything to do with each other in the other games. But they are each shown separately, like in Tekken and other games with importance on storyline and events. Beating a game with a character is like watching a movie about just this character and of course he meets and talks to others. But in SFZ3 they build strange teams and duos to destroy the psycho drive and the unique character gets less important, that’s why characters like R. Mika seem so boring and undeveloped to me, they are only sharing their storyline with others. Ryu had his owns story in SFII and Ken had his (marriage), he didn’t need Ryu in it. I see the SFZ3 events as “what crazy stuff can we stuff in between SFZ2 and SFII to throw all the characters into a story?”. The whole psychop drive thing can only exist because it gets destroyed at the end, so it doesn’t show up in SFII, yet that’s not a connection to SFII to me. It’s just a way to stuff things somewhere. I do think the game is inteded to take place in the same universe, it’s just that most of it doesn’t take place at all or doesn’t matter and since SFII is so old and all the desginrers are gone nobody told them to do it better. The main goal was to sell a game with many characters and game modes, who cares about the story (see Ingrid, Yun,…)?
I think the story is mostly built on SFZ2, SFII and FF1 and all other games are just there, too but have no real importance. SFIII for example doesn’t have a storyline as reasonable and thought out as SFII and that’s why the characters will probably not come back. By trying to make sence of Capcom’s latest moves and to make up why and how things of SFZ3 happened when SFII happened too, you’re doing the same thing as the story writers of SFZ3. You stuff things in wherever there is room just to somehow make it look like a story, the difference is, that you try hard and they just didn’t.
I personally don’t think the plot guide sounds THAT adamant about it these days.
(Hmm… I do need to correct and remove “Guy” from that paragraph now, though)
Also, a “trust Saiki 100%” remnant is still worth noting compared to a “n00b13 Tiamat probably got it off some random website or fanfic and didn’t realize it” remnant. So far it’s pretty rare when Saiki’s completely 100% wrong. As Vasili stated, the ONLY thing left from the Saiki days are that “remnant” of Bison’s body and the whole “invitations for revenge” thing. Given the HUNDREDS of other stuff Saiki stated that ended up being true after being researched (albeit some of them might be misinterpretations like the Zangief Gay thing, there still was at least something that caused Saiki to say it), I think it’d be premature to completely throw out the New Body thing now.
Of course, I do have to admit that I’m not sure where to draw the line on research being done to finally decide to actually throw it out, though. But I don’t think we’ve reached that line yet.
Ah. But I think that has to do more with SFA3’s storyline being crappy and slipshod than whether events happened or not. That and the Alpha series was inspired by the SF Animated Movie and meant to adopt an anime style in general, so that it’d adopt the concept of people working in teams shouldn’t be too surprising.
It’s kinda funny/pathetic how all the ‘new’ characters in SFA3 rely completely on old characters to justify their existance, though (R. Mika to Zangief, Karin to Sakura, J&J to Cammy), but again, I don’t think competence has much to do with whether or not an event actually happened.
No SFII characters returned to SFIII besides Ryu and Ken either (until Capcom later on slapped in Akuma and Chun-Li, but that’s still not very many). It’s likely simply SF tradition that not many characters come back in general to new non-Alpha SF games, storyline reasonableness be damned.
They didn’t need to. They had Cammy lose her memory, Charlie die, and Bison say to multiple characters that he’ll be back (they were also nice enough to provide the method with which he can return). There isn’t really anything else you need, really (although them covering their butts with Fei Long in SF2Revival was pretty funny).
I only try hard while they don’t because they don’t give a shit whether people accept it or not. It’s not like it matters to them or anything they do. No self-respecting storyline writer gets in an argument with the storyline reader about what happens in a storyline because they themselves KNOW what happened. They say “Bison can return via Cammy and Rose. BYE BYE LATER SEE YOU” and call it a day and what are you going to do about it? Me meanwhile, I’m not the storyline writer (…I don’t even speak the same damn language as the storyline writer :() so the best I can do is merely present what they said (according to what Vasili and Saiki and whoever else said they said) and what I think is probably true based on that (having to disclaim every time I do that). Under those conditions, I have to put up with people constantly talking about ways the plot guide should be changed that may or may not be valid, so of course I’m going to argue why I’ve decided to do things a certain way if I think my way is the optimal way (or I’m too lazy to change it, I suppose). Doing that helps me go a long way towards figuring out kinks in the system rather than just keeling over and not addressing it. Furthermore, it’s my obligation to myself as the plot guide’s writer to show my devotion and seriousness about it by not just brushing people off whenever they say the plot guide is wrong and by trying to find the links in the storylines. Otherwise that would be lazy and I pride myself on the amount of NOT-laziness I put into the guide.
As the plot guide’s new disclaimer at the top says, I am NOT a Capcom Employee. No one’s ever forced you or anyone else to believe the guide, nor does the guide ever claim (on a whole) that it’s perfect, infallible, or 100% accurate.
I don’t see what the big deal that everyone needs to get pissed off whenever the guide seems like it might have been even a little bit in error. Seriously, even if the Plot Guide screwed up the Street Fighter fandom beyond recognition with a billion conjectures and “facts” that turned out to be wrong, then it’s not like God’s going to go out and kill a kitten over the thing. OH NOES THE STREET FIGHTER FANFIC COMMUNITY GOT MISLEAD A LITTLE ON A CONTINUITY SERIES AND FRANCHISE THAT IS PRACTICALLY DEAD ANYWAYS. The world isn’t going to die over something like that.
Although frankly, I think a lot of effort went into SFZ3’s storylines. Any loser can say “Chun-Li’s father died, Charlie died, and Ken gave his headband to Ryu” and call it a day Most of those storylines are things we already KNEW from Street Fighter 2 ANYWAYS and it doesn’t get much lazier than showing a storyline that everyone KNEW ALREADY. But it takes an astoundly insanely devoted (and devotedly insane) mind to come up with “Ryu goes to meet Rose who warns him about Bison who tries to possess him but Sagat and Sakura show up and give Ryu promo speeches so Ryu boots Bison out then Cammy gets a hit order placed on her by Shadaloo but Vega can’t bring himself to do it and she gets all her teammates to turn on Vega before he reveals the startling truth that did not exist before SF2 and thus was NOT just some lazy writer showing a storyline that everyone already damn knew well enough already before Vega decides to rescue Cammy and then blah blah blah.”
SFA2 is a good example of why I think most prequels are one of the most LAZIEST effortless storylines you can possibly make. It’s like, GASP! Chun-Li’s father died! Charlie died! THIS IS SHOCKING REVELATION WE NEVER KNEW BEFORE. Except… it wasn’t!
At least SFA3 tried to show an actual new side to things. Even if most of it was cheesy and stupid. But cheesy and stupid does NOT equal effortless. Effortless would have been saying “Oh, Cammy was an assassin that worked for Bison. She got in an accident and lost her memory. The end.” Effortless is NOT “Cammy was loyal to Shadaloo but then Cape Bison revealed to her the shocking truth of her true purpose and despite her loyalty, she had to die because she had become useless to him thanks to developing a mind of her own, but she managed to fend him off and then save her Doll companions because they were worth more than just mindless slaves, and then Matador Vega decided to rescue her for his own reasons.” Stupid (with the clone thing)? Yes. Effortless? Compared to the alternative of her just being an assassin who got amnesia after being bonked on the head, no.
Besides, when you have to make THIRTY DIFFERENT ENDINGS WITH DIALOGUE, THIRTY DIFFERENT STORYLINE PROLOGUES, AND MORE THAN ONE-HUNDRED DIFFERENT MID-BOSS AND BOSS DIALOGUE EXCHANGES, you’re probably going to try to cut corners with some of them.
How do you know there aren’t any? Because I haven’t found any yet? I haven’t even begun to post a third of what was ever released, and I’ve given out mostly old stuff so far. Saiki began talking on Gamefaqs just before Revival came out, and he covered new as well as old material. Can you attest to there being nothing from Capcom in publications for the Saturn, the Dreamcast, the Playstation, and the Gameboy Advance as well as Arcadia and Gamest? If so please let me know so I can stop conjuring up possibilities for what I hope Saiki will sometime answer for me.
The short Revival accounts from aerialgroove’s book will be the last things I post before moving on to Zero series material.
The Rockies don’t extend past New Mexico, much less into Mexico itself.
It’s not Sagat’s statue. The one in the ruins of his SF2 and SFZ1/2 stages is a genuine relic. Z3’s statue, different stage from the Ayuthaya Ruins but also in Thailand, is the psycho drive’s output cannon remotely operated from the underground base of Secret Point 48016, the Nachapa Reclining Buddha Statue (separate entry in AAC).
Finish absorbing everything from AASFZ3 before you say they didn’t try.
Honestly, yeah- you not having stumbled across anything is a contributing factor. You just got done posting a small novel on T.Hawk’s backstory, I’ve no idea how many books you have relating to Street Fighter, and you, of all people, haven’t found anything other than “this is what happens to characters in SFA3” and “this is their SF2 storyline,” with nothing in between. My point isn’t that there are no post-A3 accounts, it’s that there’s very little linking SFA3 to SF2.
Other than that, there are a bunch of differences between the SF2 games and A3 in terms of storyline and where A3 leaves off, so it’s of course not JUST that you haven’t found anything. I don’t think the A3 -> SF2 time period exists, because A3 could have been written so that it ends where SF2 picks up, but it clearly was not. It is it’s own game. It certainly has A2 elements and SF2 elements (X-ISM, all 17 SSF2T characters are present), but it does not bridge many (if any) gaps to SF2.
Ah, but if you don’t worry about continuity with SF2, A3 storline isn’t bad at all. Though, I’m sure that sounds insane.
Cammy having worked for Bison and Charlie being dead are integral parts of their characters. BTW, Cammy doesn’t lose her memory in her own ending…actually, I’m not sure she does in any ending with her in it, though I guess you could make a case for Vega’s. And, Cammy’s ending actually says that she is never seen again…i’ll not bring up that could be a mistranslation. And the mistranslation card isn’t one I like to play, except that…you know…Capcom mistranslates/changes stuff all the time.
And, of course, Charlie only dies in Guile’s ending. Guile, who was not in the arcade version of the game, and didn’t show up until the home versions. You might say tha it casts doubt on his story points…Guile’s whole point as a character is that he’s tryingto avenge Charlie’s death, but that death doesn’t happen at that point. Guile shows up in the home versions with other characters who’s stories are changed (Dee Jay, T.Hawk, Fei), Hawk especially having no business being around and having his motivation greatly changed. Though that might be coincidence.
I don’t see why SF2 Revival would be necessary canonically- if most of the stuff in A3 happened prior to SF2, Revival wouldn’t need to change anything, as it wold be evident. The fact that they changed things, sorta points to friction between the games. That said, I don’t think there’s any mention of Bison being defeated, the Psycho Drive, Rose, Bison having tried to capture Ryu, etc in SF2 Revival, all of which would be mportant things in the SFA games, and the last of which could easily have been adopted.
I very much appreciate the plot guide and the work you and many others have put into t. My whole deal is that Capcom does more of a "this is what happens in X game and this is what happens in Y game, and there’s not always stuff in-between, and in A3’s case, games are sometimes made just for the sake of being games, continuity be damned For example, even if Bison changed bodies in A3 (as possible/likely as one wants it to be), it would have no effect on SF2, because there is little continuity. There rally isn’ continuity within a single game…every ending can’t happen, after all. Within a series, entire games are sometimes overwritten and defer to the next one. Inter-series continuity…? Eh…
Ultima- this is why A2 fitting better as a prequel to SF2 is relevant. We get to see the origin of Ryu’s (red) headband, you see Sagat hooking up with Bison’s organization, you see Charlie dying, Chun Li finds out about her father, etc. A3 could have been writen this way, if it were meant to precede SF2. Alpha 1 was overwritten by A2, I guess, but A1 had similar storyline points.
You would not need to conjecture about Bison getting a new body, or what happens between SFA3 and SF2, because it would mostly be clear- as it was with A1 and A2. A3 is unclear, because it was not intended to be clear, because it was not intended to directly precede SF2.
Thing was, A3 was about cramming all SF2 and Alpha characters into one game, and a bunch of new stuff, etc. Bison would not explode into atoms if A3 was not meant to hea in a different direction than SF2 did. A bunch of characters might show up, and Bison would not be super-powerful in in Alpha and less so in SF2. Bison’s base would not be destroyed, all of Bison’s guys wouldn’t turn on him, etc. There is a reason these things didn’t happen in A1/A2 endings. Look at how the other games were written in terms of endings and whatever…they clearly lead up to SF2. A3 cleary does not. That’s all I’m saying. That, and it wasn’t Capcom being laszy…the guyswo made the game did this on purpose. Every single story point tells an alternate version of the SF2 storyline. A1/A2 did the same (Chun Li was supposed to have never met Bison before, Sagat shouldn’t have fought Ryu prior to SF2 since his SF1 loss, etc), but A3 takes things waaay further.
As far as A2 being lazy…well…you have 18 characters instead of 28 (~32 in the home versions, plus more on the handheld versions), and you know certain storyline issues aregoing to resolve themselves…Rose obviously can’t kill Bison, Chun li is going to find out about her dad, Charlie is gonna die, Final Fight characters are going to go do FF stuf, Gen is a timebomb from the begining, since he’s terminally ill, regardless of a victory to Akuma or a loss, etc. A2 wasn’t especially lazy, just was what it was.
A3 is somewhat lazy for the universal ending (Bison dies in almot al of htem, plus the Shad base explodes in at least half of them) and BGM. Otherwise, yeah, a fair amount more work was put into the game from a plotting standpoint. Don’t forget the characterto-character win quotes…every character has at least 25 of them, not sure if new ones were made for the home version characters. I also wonder if the three -ISMs in A3 were all supposed to get their own BGMs…X-Sodom has his own, and I would think that may have been part of a larger plan that got scrapped.
…and another thing. Why is super-powerful, anime-inspired Bison losing to like 18 different characters? Come on. Since when can Cammy ever beat up Bison? Even just regarding intra-A3 continuity, Bison can’t lose to half the cast, because he’s the most powerful character. And EVERYBODY can’t destroy his base.
BTW, where does Bison say he’ll be back? He makes statements to the effect of him being invincible and that sort of thing, but I don’t recall him ever saying he’ll be back.
Exactly. I think at some point you have to accept the fact that there are characters who were thrown in, just for the sake of making the game better and attacting more players. Whether you think it’s Yun, or Guile, or everybody, it would be hell writing backtories that line up with SF2 perfectly, especially considering half of the cast shouldn’t be in the game. That, and stuff would get boring, real quick. You would have very little freedom in adding new things. Would look a lot more like A2. A3 clearly took a different approach from that one.
This guy is a genius. I actually shouted out “GOOOOOAAAALLLL!!!..!” like a Mexican soccer announcer after reading this post.
~
On a completely different note…I’m calling it Shadowlaw, if I even mention the blasted name at all. 1. I have seen Shadowlaw in romanized characters (All about SFZ3, page 389), and I’d assumed it’s katakanized to mean “rule” and the two were confused somehow, but “rule” is katakanized differently. Seriously, what the fuck is a shadaloo? And it’s sha-do-ruu…how the hell do you confuse “ruu” for “raa?” Has someone else seen the name in romanized characters?
> this is why A2 fitting better as a prequel to SF2 is relevant. We get to see the origin of Ryu’s (red) headband, you see Sagat hooking up with Bison’s organization, you see Charlie dying, Chun Li finds out about her father, etc. A3 could have been writen this way, if it were meant to precede SF2. Alpha 1 was overwritten by A2, I guess, but A1 had similar storyline points.
You obviously didn’t read my post. I’ll say it one more time: RETRO-ACTIVE CONTINUITY. LOOK IT UP.
It doesn’t matter that A2 fit SF2 better. SF2 is absolutely bare bones story-wise, made at a time when “fighting game” wasn’t even a proper genre, far less “fighting game story” having any meaning at all. It’s a virtual blank slate. Sure, A1/A2 fit with the bare bones SF2 “better”. So what? They changed their minds and made SFA3, which required a somewhat modified SF2 to coincide with it. They somewhat accomplished this with Revival, but because Capcom is lazy, they didn’t go all the way with additional/new story material. If, for the 20th anniversary, Capcom were to re-release SF2, but updated with improved graphics and additional characters and with the full bells and whistles and mid-boss quotes and character-to-character dialogues, etc., I can almost guarantee that it would be made to fit in with SFA3.
The fact that A1/A2 fit in better with the bare bones SF2 that was released in 1991 before anyone gave a shit about its story (including its creators) is competely irrelevent. SF2 has been changed. It just hasn’t happened properly in game form. Revival, half-assed as it is, already proves that.
You may know that Gouki’s D,D,D+PPP Super in Third Strike is called the “Kongou Kokuretsu Zan”. This translates as “Country/Continent-Splitting/Rending Vajra Slash”.
Kao Megura’s Third Strike FAQ touched on the Vajra, which is a weapon that has symbollic meaning in Hinduism and Buddhism. Upon investigating this further, I’ve found that there is actually a visual parallel between the appearance of the technique, and the form of the Vajra. The Vajra is two-sided, with each end terminating in a central prong surrounded by several other (usually 4) equally-spaced prongs. Here is an image of one end of a Vajra to illustrate. Looks familiar, eh? Interestingly enough, while the number of outer prongs vary, the most common number seen is 4, while Gouki’s Super has 6.
LOL, no offense, but the Plot Guide would be so much easier to read if you’d keep an eye on sentence length. Not that you’d really go through all that trouble again, but just MAYBE that’s why some people are having a hard time accepting what’s in there. Written language counts for a lot.
Anyway, I’ve been playing Final Fight again last night. Some things came to my mind:
What makes the lead pipe “Haggar’s weapon,” and what makes the katana “Guy’s weapon?” I don’t get it. Neither of them use those weapons differently from the others, so Cody’s the only one with a designated weapon of preference. Have the weapons changed in FF2 & 3 in ways to make each one FEEL more to a certain character’s liking?
Does AAC state how many people Guy and Cody have KILLED? I can’t fathom fighting through so many people with knives and katanas without any casualties.
Probably, yea, it’d be easier to read. That’s the very nature of shorter sentences. As I’ve stated (in the latest update, I think) I’ve been thinking about devoting an update to trimming that thing down.
In regards to people accepting it just because it’s easier to read, honestly, um… no. That’s naive. I refer you to TS’ posts on this same page. In the interest of short sentences, I’ll let you figure it out yourself.
The Katana is Guy’s weapon and the pipe is Haggar’s weapon because they swing those weapons faster than they normally would with other weapons.
Also, I don’t think Cody has ever killed anyone but Belger. At least, if Final Fight Streetwise is to be believed. People are amazingly resilient in the Street Fighter world.
Thanks for the Sagat statue clarification, Vasili. Always good to see something that seems really wierd actually officially be slightly less wierd.
Yeah right, as if it made sence that the statue is in Sagat’s stage like always and looks like always but of course it’s a “different one”. Yeah thanks for clearing that up.:looney:
aerialgroove, T. Hawk’s account said “precipitous rocky mountain”, rocky as in adjective modifying the mountain like steep mountain or sandy mountain, not the Rockies as in the range in North America.
SFZ1 tied into SF2: Nash died just as Guile’s Dash account revealed, and Rose died by Vega’s hand to explain her absence in SF2. But Zero 2 immediately led to Zero 3: Capcom vehemently announced that Nash does not die in his Z2 ending, and Rose forsees that Vega hasn’t seen his last battle yet (Gamest SFZ2 mook). In both Z1 and Z2, Chun Li never accuses Vega of killing her father, nor does Vega ever say that he did or not. All she does throughout the entire saga is keep a remote possibility in the back of her mind that Vega personally had something to do with her father’s sudden unaccountability, due to Vega saying her father was entertaining, but she never comes out and says it. Throughout the Zero series Chun Li’s feelings waver on whether her father could still be alive or not (her Z2 ending and a little of Guile’s Z3 ending), but by SF2 she’s convinced that he’s gone for keeps, her gut feeling more than ever points to Vega as her father’s murderer though she has no concrete proof, and she’s finally relieved once Shadoloo is destroyed (Revival account).
A small “novel” of T. Hawk’s backstory indeed…what will you dub the Z3 stage accounts when I get to those, TS? Mini-pocketbooks?
Shadowlaw in AASFZ3 is a comical note for Birdie and his stage, a mode of transportation called the Shadowlaw Express, possibly a ridicule altogether on English-written spellings for our favorite evil organization. If it’s heard in Japanese speech kind of rapidly spoken, it sounds like they’re pronouncing it Shadaloo, but I’ve tried to keep it as Shadoloo when writing it, since with the katakana it’s sha-do-ru.
Ultima- Right, Capcom changed the story, but just never bothered to actually adress any of the changes. The only things SF2:Revival alters are the Ryu/Sagat relationship, Cammy, and Fei Long. If you’re saying that Capcom changed that, fine- then SF2 is void, right? And therefore SFA3 can’t precede it. If you’re saying the entire backstory has been changed, there’s really nothing to back that up at all. So it’s best to look at them as different games instead of trying to cram them together (even Revival only took a handful of elements from the Alpha games).
I’m saying that Alpha 3 clearly was not meant to precde SF2- there is almost nothing that ties them together, other than the existence of SF2 as a game. Concurrent and retroactive, but not exclusive continuity.
Thanks for the clarification. A2, at least those things you mention, also leads to SF2 (and I suppose to Final Fight). Did Capcom say Charlie didn’t die in his ending in any of the A2 books, or did they just say that to explain why he was in A3 when they were planning/releasing the game?
I wonder about Capcom’s intentions…they could easily have known SFA3 would be coming, but when it did, they couldn’t possibly ditch the character. Then, at some point, they fell in love with the idea of him being evil/controlled by Bison (Shadow in Marvel Super Heroes vs SF and his appearence in Bison’s ending in that game, cameo in Marvel vs Capcom in Chun Li’s ending). Although those games are offshoots and don’t really effect other games… I really wonder if they were thinking about bringing him back in some non-SF2 game at some point, or if they just liked the character and didn’t want to kill him off.
Biblical text, since A3/Z3 is a holy game. I refer to All About Street Fighter Zero 3 as “The Good Book,” or sometimes just “The Book.”
A3
I assume it would refer to the derailed train in his A3 stage background. Either way, you’ve not seen the name written in English in any of your Japanese books? (though that’s a weird question to even ask)
I know, I already posted that I misunderstood your post thanks again.
Tiamat, in the Plot guide it says that Noembelu is not mentioned by T. Hawk to Vega in Revival and then conclude, that this means that in Z3 certain things must have happened or T. Hawk must know. But don’t you think she’s just not mentioned because the game Z3 has no impact on SFII at all?
I understand this conclusion as it makes sence when you first play SFZ3 but now that we see how they don’t give a rats ass about how things tie together how can you assume that stuff must have happened in Z3 because of what SFII says about it? I doubt that SFII can be used as a source to find out what happened in Z3. Just my opinion.
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Did you know Rolento and Zangief were rip offs too?
Aerialgroove: That’s odd. I thought I deleted that paragraph or editted it to instead state that unlike other characters, Revival didn’t seem to have revise T. Hawk’s SF2 ending for SFA3 and I had no confirmed explanation for that (although I did conjecture that maybe they simply forgot).
checks Oh, I see. I didn’t update Noembelu’s paragraph to reflect that new uncertainty. Hmm… looks like I should have editted the paragraph right above the paragraph where I say that maybe it was just an accident in T. Hawk’s section, too.
…blech, trying to fix times when I think I originally erred gets pretty frustrating when I’ve sometimes repeated the same thing in different sections. I need to figure out a way to prevent that in the future if I ever do a trimming update.
You’re welcome. Saying it again, the Zero 2 Gamest mook, for the game’s Nash ending comment.
Yeah it’s the train, I should’ve realized that, his stage is a Train Cemetery after all:sweat:. Outside of English-version-game-context which uses Shadaloo, nope.
In Revival Hawk yells at Vega for the sacred ground, with indeed no words for Noembelu or Julia/Juli. Unfortunately even AAC leaves T. Hawk’s actions in Z3 up in the air. We know that he went off to recover missing villagers. But after that, none of his dialogue battles can be verified. About all that could’ve been certain is that if he did meet Vega at all in Z3, he most definitely found one or both of the dolls prior.
Say that regardless if he ran into Nash or not, Hawk finds one or both of the dolls. If they’re all dependent on Vega’s and the psycho drive’s existence, they all eventually die, and Hawk’s powerless to stop that. But assuming Capcom left Hawk’s Revival account the way it is purposely, Hawk must’ve somehow not been able to know and prove that Vega was to blame for his loved one(s)’ conditions. Either the doll(s) knocked him unconscious and when he came to they were dead, or he managed to subdue them and they just died as he trekked back home.
Looking back at his SSF2 account, Hawk’s canon role in Z3 could be interpreted as a rescue mission and nothing more. The last thing his father wanted and exactly what Vega wanted was to lash out at him with hatred. The missing villagers I feel provided a slight temporary diversion for Hawk, lightly keeping him from going after Vega for the land and his father’s pretext. After all, Hawk’s just been highly renowned as a warrior by his village/tribe as Z3 opens; I figure his conscience veers toward the benefit of many before his own immediate satisfaction.
but I read All Stars and not Ultimates, 'cuz I just can’t start Marvel continuity over again in my head, DC no prob…
A3