Warriors Fate: Street Fighter story thread, revived

Oooooh. I thought you were talking about Bison’s physical similarity to Hitler’s, not the portrait’s similiarities (or lack of) to Hitler. Gotcha. But you know, I already did say that odds are the storyline writers didn’t consider Bison to have been Hitler reincarnated until they wrote the storyline to SFA3 (assuming no mistranslations. By the way, from now on, I’m not going to bother saying "assuming no mistranslations because all of you should know that by now and anyone who dares point out “But it might have been mistranslated!” as a primary argument from here on I will call a poopyhead because DUH, of course things might be mistranslated!), so of course that means that odds are none original people initially intended it. As far as I know, it wasn’t until SFA3 that they decided to have all that far out stuff (such as Bison possessing Rose) regarding lots of things, after all.

Regarding genocide, Vega killed his own master and ordered the deaths of his own Dolls. Killing people because he feels like it isn’t below him and as Sano points out, he blows up entire cities just to test power. Heck, thinking about it, he DID commit racial genocide. Thunder Hawk’s tribe, anyone?

Working through page 2 of 3 in Hawk’s story now, yeah these’ll be a long read if you thought the Dash accounts were big.

Vega’s speech to Guy has no “throughout” in it. Vega proclaims himself eternal, and for that reason he’ll place into history various names he’s called by. He was still born a human, and through the teachings from his master as well as his own delving into the deepest realms of his hatred to become more powerful than anyone, he can control his soul’s journey to an extent even after his body dies, but he’s most likely not the always was; always is type of being who was previous people in existing history. He rather refers to his own history that he would’ve made had he not seen Gouki’s face.

AAC states in Z3 Vega’s entry that he could live on in Rose or Cammy should his body be destroyed: Rose because of the soul, Cammy because of DNA. The same entry further states that Vega (not Vega within Rose) met his end with the SGS in SSF2X. This is the binding tie that links SFZ3 to SF2, and about the only one AAC gives, mind you this was stated before Revival surfaced, so no dependence on a console GBA title necessary for this.

What I had said in AAC’s Z3 Rose’s entry was that during their battle Vega’s soul proceeded to take over Rose’s body.

About the only piece of all this without printed confirmation yet is that a new body was constructed for Vega by Shadoloo scientists, along with SF2 held for revenge, etc., which I hope Arcadia will finally clear up.

Sure thing Golden Dragon. Hope that was fairly reasonable given I couldn’t find the team’s name anywhere else on the net.

Tiamat, even if it’s murder and evil and all that, it’s not genocide. The dolls and his master are just not enough people for genocide plus their from different “races” (I don’t know the correct term sorry). Hawk’s tribe was simply in his way and he wanted their land, like many rich companies do, that destroy places full of natural recources (as well as dictators who commit genocide, too of course but not only them).
Meanwhile I’ve tried to find more nazi related things and I found one. The emblem on SF Zero Vega’s belt looks like the “S” in SS (Hitler’s Schutz Staffel). It can also be found in the logo of the band KISS and looks like a flash.

It probably isn’t genocide, but even if it wasn’t it wouldn’t matter because I’m certain that directly addressing Hitler’s racial genocide is a third rail to video game companies and thus something they won’t ever even vaguely make the case no matter how much Hitler connection the storyline or a character has (at least not until someone finally raises that bar). Hitler’s racism and genocide simply doesn’t exist as far as any video game that has him goes. Regardless, if the quote was mistranslated, there’s nothing to argue, anyways. Thanks, Vasili!

Hmm, I was wondering if the return-via-Cammy DNA thing was still open or if that got fixed sort of like the Dolls did. Saiki said the former but I wasn’t sure if that was him connecting dots or if it was actually stated. Now we know for sure it’s the latter. Of course, I’m not sure if there’s been any specific official direct statement (so much as conjectural dot-connecting) that Vega can no longer return via Cammy after Akuma did the SGS on him.

Regardless, we know that obviously he didn’t return via Cammy, and thus that leaves Rose. Just a little bit more, then. Thanks again, Vasili!

Dou itashimashite Tiamat.:china:

aerialgoove’s correct, the Thunderfoot’s plight was a massacre rather than a genocide.

Wow, didn’t know that. That puts to rest any doubt I had that the Alpha and SF2 series aren’t connected storyline-wise. Still, Capcom says that each game takes place in its’ own universe. :looney:

Quick question:
In what official source is it stated that Morgan is Lucia’s last name??

Speaking of the Thunderfoot village attack, I’d like to clear up any confusion over the incident since I’ve recently learned the details of T. Hawk’s official SF2 series backstory. Shadaloo slaughtered the Thunderfoot tribe and destroyed their land/village. The surviving members fled/escaped and found somewhere else to live/went into hiding (this includes Arroyo Hawk and Thunder Hawk of course). Shadaloo didn’t willingly give anyone the choice to just leave. Arroyo, on his deathbed, informed T. Hawk of the events 30 years afterwards.

Now the details of the incident might’ve changed since the release of Alpha 3, but that is the official word on how the event went down before then.

Haha, I made you say Vega instead of the incorrect “Bison”! Sorry that was unprofessional.:sweat:

The Plot Guide provides 2 explanations why Blanka’s plane was sabotaged. First it says the plane was sabotaged because it was flying too close to a Shadaloo base.
Then a few paragraphs later it says Shadaloo sabotaged the airplane Jimmy (Blanka) was on because cabinet members from a country opposed to Shadaloo were on board. The latter is the correct reason, so Tiamat you may wanna remove the lines, “Blanka was the sole survivor of a plane crash that crashed in Brazil. It was too close to a Shadaloo base there so they sabotaged it.”

Hopefully aerialgroove can answer, he’s got the FF books.

Yep, that’s pretty much right on with what I’m translating right now, page 3 of 3 as we speak, hoping to post the complete account sometime tomorrow.

Also adding to AAC’s declarations, Vega offed by the SGS in SSF2X is in Gouki’s Z3 entry as well as Vega’s. The latter gives a little more detail: Vega’s taken from behind like Adon’s ending (as opposed to the face front beating if you get Gouki to appear in Super X), and the SGS (his weakness) easily defeated as well as ended the act of soul hopping.

Sorry I don’t have the FF3 book yet, it always went out for about 60 bucks and that was a little too much for a small guide book to me. But I’ll keep looking for it.

Ah, thanks Vasili. Guess that answers the question of if the SGS ended Bison/Vega’s soul hopping days, then. Keen.

I wish I could remember where the heck I got that last name for Lucia from. For all I know, maybe it’s one of the few remaining remnants from the days when the plot guide just wasn’t as strict as it should have been. Coulda sworn I got it from somewhere although I don’t recall doing any extra extreme verifications for it, either.

Hey, Tiamat maybe it’s on a FF3 flyer like Rolento and M. Bison’s full name.
EDIT:
I forgot that it was a SNES only game, anybody know if there are Japanese ads for the game in video game magzines?

In case it isn’t already mentioned in the Plot Guide, Sagat fought Go during an annual world Muay Thai competition (???). Sagat had recently become champion and his match with Go was his first title defense.

Vega’s/M. Bison’s match with Gouken is mentioned in Vega’s/M. Bison’s Street Fighter Zero 1 backstory. Of course, Vega doesn’t kill Gouken and only whups his ass. It appears that Ryu and Ken had completed their training and left the dojo by the time this fight took place. vasili10, could I post the details of the fight and you could translate it when you get the chance?? I attempted translating it myself, but there a few significant lines that I can’t make sense out of.
EDIT:
On second thought, it would probably save both of us a lot of time and trouble if I just posted only the said lines. The following lines are right after Bison defeats Gouken. From what I gathered, I think they explain why Gouken lost.

???
???
???
???
???
?

Gouken lost because he held back, unknowingly at the time but for his students’ sakes. It is said that with Vega and Gouken going all out against each other, they both perceived to be a dead-even match for power. Gouken didn’t use the shoryuken in their fight, lost the battle, and succeeded in keeping hidden the power of hadou’s strongest technique, of which Vega had demanded him to show everything. Full details forthcoming in Vega’s SFZ account.

The story I released from SF2 Himitsu Hyakka long ago was the early version of the same account, trailing off with the possibility that Vega had killed Gouken, but that one still maintained that Gouken lost from having held back. When I start posting Zero series stuff, you’ll see both the originals and the rewrites found in the All About series and the mooks.

I haven’t been able to find any Japanese page mention Final Fight Tough’s female fighter named Lucia Morgan, only Lucia. Furthermore, none of FF3’s faqs on Gamefaqs or even Nintendo Power’s coverage of the game says Morgan either; so now really wondering where it sprouted from.

Sure thing Tiamat.:cool:

Alrighty here’s the first of the four Street Stories from the SSF2 pre-mook. Enjoy.

T. Hawk from Gamest SSF2

Story of T. Hawk

Clumps of red clay, the destruction exposed to dry winds.
Something narrowly withering an escaped highway along the river, that man was walking.
The dust dancing, the man covers his eyes. However his legs have come to rest.
On his back is a wooden box 1 meter square a large thing in itself, the man shoulders it and looks around a little.
A highway with no sign of life would make for a single person inconspicuous, for a man 2 meters in body height it would’ve far off crossed into that of a giant. For arms that ordinarily couldn’t carry an adult across a burly chest, he could sturdily.
The man’s name was known as Thunder Hawk.
He once a month, from his canyon home runs 3 times, walks downhill into town. For tourist opponents, he wood carves souvenirs to sell them.
For him and his father, besides making their living in forestry, such a side line couldn’t have arrived. His father as a wood carver commonly couldn’t help but hold him in his arms while running, here at an advanced age for several years of remarkably ill condition, he complained of his physical strength declining.
At the foot of the town there was a cart and an automobile, those “vehicles” which he disliked, with his own legs he migrated. As he would see it, even three times at that distance is nothing. That day going to return to his agricultural land he took the distance to his garden.

For Hawk, even so with such signs of having been tired, he stood still, leaning on the roadside’s megalith, he drank the bottled water. This vicinity was already a canyon he could quite associate with.
The right hand hill slightly elevated from the primeval forest’s overgrowth, he looked up at a precipitous bare rock. Experienced in tracking he climbs.
At the peak before long he climbed and broke off, he could peer at the steep canyon’s bottom.

For him, the heart of a scattered ravine was seen. And there for him, he could see his father’s dwelling. It can’t be something underneath the precipitous rocky mountain, a detour to the home before him as he arrives from here furthermore 1 time as such.
At the considerably sloped mountain’s western face, until sunset likely came around he wanted to have considered it was nothing whatsoever.
A steep shadow began to stretch lengthwise down the highway with many small feet stopped.
At that moment… for Hawk, a feeling of piercing-like indication, he stood still. What is this.
"… wolves?“
It began to storm within Hawk’s head. However, it was not for wolves. What in this way, he seemed to recall a chill, an ill omen he felt.
After a while of exchanging looks on the vicinity, taking care to once again take steps ahead in an instant, that’s when he stood before his eyes.
”!!"
It was a human man. However, he didn’t believe it was a very ordinary human. Just as if there was no life. That is, the vicinity of his skin was filled with the piercing ill omen.

The scenery was the thing that distorted as he was looking thus.
That man was with a jet-black cloak twined around his body. Eyes covered by a hat’s interior, two ill-feeling flashing pupils coming into view.
"… Arroyo’s son is it?" The man questioned. A seemingly chilling desolate voice.
“That’s right…who, are you?”
“Me, you don’t remember eh. Hmm…” The mouth of the man swerved, gesturing a laugh.
“Who are you? Why, do you know my father?“
Hawk tensed up. A strained air, made for a cruel warning with him. Instinctively he understood the man as an “enemy”. For him, at all times to eat up blows from thick arms would be loaded with power.
“Your father, was once a strong man…but how about now? Regrettably there’s nothing more to say.”
”?..what are you saying? Father, what did you do to him!?”
"Heh…still at any rate, you will come to meet him. At that time, it’ll be slightly entertaining…"
The man having spoken thus, all of the sudden he sprang amongst the rocks. A sign of disappearance, the man’s appearance also carried off.
Hawk in a daze for a little while, an intuitive of his father’s accident comprehended, racing towards their home.
"This man…"
While rushing to the man’s circumstances he was remembering. The mysterious man. Quite certain he was aged. And also, a seemingly familiar reverberating in his head, as a fearful tone. Did that seem to be a human?

Hawk approached his home put together with logs. He’s in the state of being changed and about to go out into the garden. But, the door has opened.
"Father!"
While exclaiming he dashed in and, really his father, soon fell prostrate from the right side of the door.
Hawk hurriedly helped him to his feet. His father’s body confirmed to be breathing, the worst situation escaped and relieved. Grind, unexpectedly the state went to a worsening
condition, he breathed into his large shoulder.
"Mmm…you eh…"
Well having exceeded an ill body aged 70, the father ranking as taking 3-4 young men opponents to defeat was no more. Respectable with a long run beard and sharp insight, as a grand dignity, he could also drive away wild animals. That father on this day it seemed was met, already that cloaked man came to the dispairity.
"Father!, hurry and take this!“
Hawk now took out merely a tablet he had bought. It’s an internal medicine for moments of spasms. However, because his father looked at Hawk, his neck slanted to the side.
For Hawk, everything understood, he carried under his arms a loaded power. To be agitated here, his father’s every expectation.
Father Arroyo Hawk quietly began with the story.
”…did you, meet that man?"
Hawk nodded.
"That man…once, eradicated our clan, the man who led the massacre group called ‘Shadoloo’. A story from 30 years ago…"
Hawk was appalled. Here for himself a past livelihood since then and the like, to have considered it all.
"We, were people of the proud Thunderfoot tribe.
That night, in our village, the group named “Shadoloo” broke in. The abundant mine veins of ore there in the village, these are what drove many aimed sets. I believed those guys were companions of them.
However, it wasn’t the intentions of those guys.
They, had fall into their hands the elderly and the children one by one…set, fire…"
His father continued the story. Within that riot, fierce village youths were angered, merely a single slaughtering cloaked man.
Hawk became terrified. Wasn’t it the man from some time ago?
"That guy…soaks up a power of hatred, which I designated.
Before that guy’s demon commanded pale flashes, all my companions were defeated…
You the defending young, from a blazing hand flee from me, that man said.
'It seems I am hatred…hatred freely is excellent.
That power is strong to the extent of enjoyable.
You, should become stronger. Hatred. Request of me to be defeated.'
The time my flaming heart had grown hazy I heard the guy’s voice, myself and you, will fall down flat engulfed in walls of flame, tumbling into the pool below the waterfall…"
Occasionally his father came to perceive, the two of them father and child, knowing by sight how to say the earth flowed.
"I have thought it over. That guy, hopes I will retaliate on the matter. As with coveting a strong “hatred”. Snatching away my companions, the burned sacred ground will not attach to a toothed grudge. Grind…that’s how that guy thinks of it. If that’s the case, and…"
His father’s options did not become avengeful.
As a young child, he settled into the new sacred ground. Mourning his captured friends, that regret and resentment, it was for the proud clan’s descendants as the appropriate method of
refreshment.
"Hatred spawned of black power, in time will destroy the self. You were still little, that you seemed to not desire choosing that path. Therefore you have persisted in concealing everything. Son!..I desire you to forgive your continued deceiving father. And also, and perhaps what that man likely said, ‘you will be next’… Before that guy’s power, your great arms are still unable. Don’t settle on hatred. Also don’t harbor a grudge.
That’s what I wish for with that guy."
Father Arroyo’s eye, already came to not see Hawk. All that remained of his power concentrated in his right arm, piled on Hawk’s hand.
"Proudly our clan’s descendants!.. That blood, must not be stained with hatred. Attain the justice of oneself."
Hawk fully directly, was gazing into his father’s eyes.
"Our sacred ground?..continuing the searching for 30 years, not at all is this matter unable to be redeemed…"
For Arroyo, a thoughtful gentle face far away, died.

Something of a hot blaze, Hawk felt it.
From his father’s hair, a hair ornament’s red feather full-fledge extracted, he inserted it into his own hair.
"…Father!, I will take back the sacred ground for you. Together with me…"
Determination solidified in his chest, Hawk arose.
His blood is boiling. Feeling a welling-up infinite power, he for a while, roared. That voice migrated through the valley. As even to the world’s end it was received.

Next time Fei Long and naturally whatever else comes up, shoot just remembered I need to send Ramah a monthly “reminder.” Thanks for reading minna-san!:tup: :clap:

Awesome! So T. Hawk’s father has a beard? Is that even possible?
Oro’s sleeping bag looks a bit like the war god Oro http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/images/h2/h2_1979.206.1481.jpg

Wow, sweet, Vasili. That’s really interesting. It seems like the whole “Bison’s power feeds off of hatred” thing came long before SFZ3 with this (Unless T. Hawk’s father was simply being metaphorical, I suppose). It also confirms that Bison personally led the massacre.

And that T. Hawk’s father didn’t die until shortly before SF2 and after SFZ3, come to think of it (since T. Hawk’s father says “30 years ago”, which is ST timeline). Hmm. Although he also apparently kept this all a secret (“Forgive your deceiving father”) until now, too, so SFZ3 had to have retconned it slightly so that he told T. Hawk about Bison a little earlier and also gave him Bison’s name. However, given that T. Hawk says to Bison in SFZ3 that Bison ‘drove his father away’ as opposed to killed his father, his father still didn’t die to Bison until after SFZ3 and before SF2 (again assuming no mistranslations).

Also, it shows that T. Hawk dislikes modern vehicles, making the trek and lugging the merchandise with his own two arms and legs. :stuck_out_tongue: And T. Hawk’s father used o be a great warrior and was about 70 years old when he died.

Why not? One of Mami Itoh’s manga stories shows old Arroyo with a beard.

Slightly mistranslated but still not much of a change for the story, rather than “drove my father away” in Z3 Hawk says “my father’s pretext”.

Sorry if I misquoted. However, given the fact that nothing is ever mentioned, anywhere, ever about Bison getting a new body at any point (and this was of course also the case at the time the AAC entry was written), that would make it unclear whether Bison ever got a new body.

This is my entire point. We know Dan likes karaoke and Ken hates soap operas, we know the names of Guile’s wife and daughter, there are not only locations for the stages in the games, but sometimes actual times of the day. But…there’s nothing about Bison ever getting a new body? Really?

Capcom does goofy stuff, sure, but do you think they’d actually leave that out?

How about Bidon doesn’t need a new body, because he didn’t die? If you’re going to link A3 to SF2 in any direct way, how about that? Just because it happened in someone’s ending doesn’t mean it happened. It’s just in the account for that one character, because it’s in their ending. I don’t see anyone insisting that Dhalsim or Honda’s endings are the way things happened.

That’s what I’m saying. The body-switching thing is unnecessary, and relative to any other plot point, rather unsupported.

~~

[rant=long]

Canon does not strictly exist in the first place.

The only reason people suggest that Bison switched bodies in A3 is because he’s in SF2 and therefore must have survived. That, and they’re used to the idea.

There are one hundred thousand ways in which A3 conflicts with SF2. Probably more. You have characters who have no business being there and/or who’s stories are different (Guile, Dee Jay, and in the handhelds Yun is a big “WTF”). You have things which happen in A3 which should not have happened prior to SF2- Bison dying or being defeated, Ryu destroying Bison in his ending, etc. Not to mention the fact that Balrog, Vega and Sagat all turn on Bison, but they’re all chums again a short time later…?

Is there anyone who will argue that SFA2 doesn’t lead up SF2 better than A3? No Psycho Drive which magically disappears and is never mentioned again, the SF2 characters mostly don’t show up until SF2, Nash killed, Chun Li finds out about her father, Sagat hanging out with Bison, etc. There is a reason for that- it was written with SF2 in mind.

A3 was not. A3 is a game where they through all of the Alpha characters together, and all of the SSF2T characters together, and they all fight, and there’s some cool story going on about Bison. And there’s Final Fight guys, too. That’s basically it. It is much more of a sequel to A2 than a prequel to SF2. This is clear if you actually look at the game.

However, it maintains the same art style as A2 and takes place during roughly the same time period. Which is confusing to some people. It has to directly tie into SF2, because it takes place before SF2, right? Not so much. There is overlap, but there are many elements which are different (a few of which I have already mentioned).

Ever wonder why there are no post-A3 accounts? No official source explaining what happened between A3 and SF2? Not a coincidence. Why would you ever think that we would know minor details like Ken’s birthday being on Valentine’s Day or character weights and hobbies, but absolutely nothing explaining the 15 or so characters that don’t show up for SF2 and why? There is a reason. Even ruling that out as being a gameplay issue, there are plenty of things that could use some explaining.

There are 2 options you’re left with: #1, ignore everything and rule the game out as not being “canon,” #2, try to play connect-the-dots and think of reasons why stuff happened.

There is a third option, which is to not explain it at all. A3 is it’s own game, and does not NEED to tie into SF2 directly, because, as CAPCOM said, each game is it’s own entity, and may or may not tie into the next game in the series, let alone a different SERIES.

In comic books: The Ultimates and The Avengers share a lot of the same characters, and both versions of characters have a lot in common…but they are different books. Adam West Batman is different from Michael Keaton Batman. Same character, different takes. Smallville changes a lot of the Superman backstory relative to the Superman movies. Anime- Tenchi Muyo is different from Tenchi in Toyko. Full Metal Alchemist manga is different from the anime. 90s X-Men series is different from X-Men: Evolution. Dragon Ball/Z movies (OVAs) share characters with the main series, but are sorta their own thing. Etc. None of those things necessarily invalidates the other(s).

This is one of those things.

With A3 -> SF2, you can pick and choose what happened and what didn’t, if you want…but certainly everything couldn’t have happened, and there are entire characters and storylines which are incongruent with SF2. This is incredibly clear if you’ve played the game a lot.
[/rant=long]

TS:

> Is there anyone who will argue that SFA2 doesn’t lead up SF2 better than A3? … There is a reason for that- it was written with SF2 in mind. A3 was not.

Irrelevent. Two words: Retroactive continuity. Look it up.

> This is one of those things.

No. This is more a X-men: Deadly Genesis kinda thing.