About Hugo and Andore, the two new books should’ve just said Hugo was just a former Mad Gear member and left it there. That way no Japanese sources would conflict with each other, and the story might have progressed like this, assuming that FFR is still not canon:
Hugo leaves home and his parents with two sisters to become a pro wrestler, finds and joins Mad Gear not realizing they’re a gang and instead a possible haven for tag team partners, soon leaves because they are a gang and because the Andore clan pressures him for being a solid black-haired imposter thus not appearing in any FF title but catches Poison’s eye before he leaves Mad Gear, starts promoting himself as early as Zero 3 hence the billboard in Cody’s stage which AAC states is Hugo’s only non-SF3 appearance, Poison finds Hugo and becomes his manager, enter 2I and 3S.
So what does the Japanese bio for Andore Jr. say in CCC? Is it the same as the English? Anybody know?
I sent Sirlin a PM asking this question. He worked on localizing the game, he’s from Digital Eclipse. Not sure if he knows anything about the translations but it’s worth a shot, he might even be able to ask the right person if he’s up to it. You can read his post here about CCC.
Ok, I think the main reason for confusion is that Capcom wants Hugo to be Andore (pink-red outfit) and you think they want Hugo to be Andore Jr (totally pink outfit). Now think about the whole thing again, it does make sence except for the whole Andore family in FF thing but they are just clones and clones are ignored in the storyline. You never see Poison’s clone anywhere (artwork, storline, FFR, etc) do you? They are only clones and have no real story.
By the way, what’s CCC? The game or the manual?
The aniversary book said that Hugo was in FF or in Mad Gear, right?
“We all know…” I don’t “know” or as I would put it “believe” the same, sorry. In all artwork Poison looks very very female and behaves female, simply because her look didn’t get changed at all after Capcom USA and Japan made her male. So of course she still looks just like a woman in FFR.
Hugo was in Cody’s SFZ3 stage and Andore was in Guy’s SFZ3 stage and they look the same. And Cody and Andore are FF characters. You think that’s by chance? Of course they put him in FF characters stages, just like in SFZ2.
In the end you have to decide wether you say that Hugo and Andore are one and the same (again, they look and move and fight exaclty the same) or that there are two guys with all that in common and they are both hanging around with Poison so they’re probably both from Metro City and they never meet. Does that make ANY sence? No. Does the first theory make some sence? Yes. There is no other possibility so you say that they coexist in the same universe as two separate characters?
No problem.
His only non-SF3 appearance as Hugo as I might add. If it wouldn’t say Hugo, they would have called him Andore but since it says HUGO they are forced to call him Hugo and since they don’t go by characters but by names they list him separately of course. Makes perfect sence. Same guy.
Is it possible that Poison’s full name is Poison Kiss? She’s called Poison Kiss in the Japanese version of MFF, while all other characters have the usual names. If that’s old news, sorry.
I know that she’s named after the band Poison but Kiss is a band, too.
CCC is Capcom Classics Collection, a new game released. It has bios for Final Fight characters. Okay, I think I understand you. There is an Andore Jr. and an Andore. My bad. However, we still can not speculate that Andore = Hugo until it is officially stated. Until we uncover a source that flat out states his name is ‘Hugo Andore’ there’s nothing we can do about it. It’s the same reason why we can’t say Mike and Mike Bison are the same person even if it makes a lot of sense that they would be, but there’s no evidence. As it stands we know that Andore’s brother is a Pro Wrestler, Hugo doesn’t have any brothers(check Tiamatroar’s post) we are really no better off than we were before, in fact this just makes it even more difficult to say that Andore and Hugo are one in the same.
Got the response from Sirlin over the translation:
“We did not touch any of the text for the character bios. It was written (or maybe gotten from old archives) by Capcom. It took a long time for Capcom to even give us text because they needed a bunch of approvals for it, probably from Capcom Japan. So it’s pretty accurate, but you never know when a company is rewriting history with their story. Bottom line, it’s a pretty trustworthy source, but you never know. --Sirlin.”
The Hugo thing: they are obviously the same guy, but not…I assume Hugo was thrown into SF3:2I, I’m guessing because of Ryu: Final, or whatever manga he was in. Since they didn’t want ties to the old games, or to avoid timeline issues, they made him a “different character” wink wink nudge nudge. Was Hugo named Hugo in Ryu: Final? If so, that would explain the re-naming…was he German there, also?
If anything, Hugo would be Andore Jr., and not his older brother…please don’t adopt that theory, I completely made it up. Andore Jr. wanting to be like his older brother seems most likely to be a reference to either Andore or Andre the Giant, who he/they are based on. To think that Capcom would be aware of Hugo so far into the past as to give him storyline ties to Andore Jr. is a hell of a stretch.
Anniversary book saying that Hugo was in Mad Gear…they probably said so since the writer/translator/editor saw that Hugo and Andore were clearly the same character, and maybe figured that one of the names was an alias, or only part of the name. I don’t think Mad Gear is mentioned by Hugo anywhere in any of the games…since there are no SFA references in the SF3 games, and maybe one SF2 reference, it’s safe to say that there are no Final Fight ones, either. Capcom was trying to cut ties to the older games, I think. Hugo and Andore are the same character, but not the same person, as there’s no continuity between SF3 and Final Fight, anyway.
About Zangief being gay: If he were always gay, I think Cap USA would have picked up on it sometime in the last 10 years. They censor a lot of stuff, but some of the fans, at least, would have found out. Even in the Japanese games, I think his win quotes to female characters would present some clues (and male ones too, for that matter)…though they could possibly be translated as not being strong enough (and, so, not having a masculine-enough physique), which would support the gayness theory in some people’s heads.
About the Guile thing: was the Thailand prison scenario something Capcom of America just made up, or did they read it in some mook somewhere, or…? They do make stuff up a lot, it seems…
Was it Sano who said that Capcom says that each of the games are their own work (and thus are to be viewed seperately), and isn’t it the general consensus that what Capcom of Japan says, goes? That’s sort of my opinion on the whole thing, but:
The account in question was written to give Guile more backstory, and let you know more about him as a character, and a bit about Bison (Vega). Being that the entire backstory at the time was something like, Charlie dies (Bison’s fault) -> Guile is mad -> Guile goes after Bison…you can either take the account in that regard, or disregard it; Guile is in SFZ3 for little more reason than Yun is in portable SFZ3.
As I stated in the old SF4 thread which was moved to the comic book forum, i don’t think the SFZ3 -> SF2 time gap really exists, as SFZ3 was not made with continuity in mind, as that would defeat it’s purpose as a dream match type of game. There’s a pre-SF2 area, and there’s a post Z3, I suppose, but SF2 doesn’t happen after SF2, and SFZ3 doesn’t happen before SF2. So stuff that was written to expand on character backstory thirteen years ago could still take place in the SF2 timeline, and you can throw in a few things from the A3 games, if you want…knock yourself out. But Charlie’s death exists as a motivation for Guile to fight against Bison, and the account was written as such; from the writer’s perspective, the A3 events CERTAINLY never happened, as the game wouldn’t exist for some years to come, and something like Charlie’s SFZ1 ending was probably more likely.
Or, taking SFZ3 into account, Guile met up with Charlie and Charlie sacrificed himself, destroying Bison in the process…there’s a fundamentally different motivation there, but that’s where the story ends…the SF2 events do not come afterwards. When you do stuff like that, try to tie the two together, you get (crazy) ideas like Bison jumping into Rose’s body.
I agree with a lot you said about all topics. Don’t you think though, that Hugo being in Cody’s SFZ3 stage does tie the two game series together and also the character? If Capcom wouldn’t want them to be thought of as the same, would they put both of them in the same game in the background? Why in Cody’s stage?
Maybe it goes like this:
Character designer guy meets up at a buro with a few other guys, some programmers, marketing staff and such. “Hey what’s up guys, what do we have there? Andore is going to be in SFIII?” “Yes but we call him Hugo now” “Hugo? Hmm. Well, ok what are going to eat today, Sushi or Chicken?”
No source so far says that Andore is Hugo. The 15th Anniversary book comes closest in stating that Hugo now has completely the figure to the title named Andore. In Zero 3 both Hugo and Andore appear, the most striking difference is in the hair. Both Eternal and the 15th say Hugo was originally a Mad Gear member, which AAC & every source before doesn’t say, and I’m willing to bet that the addition of info was placed to clarify the reason why Poison became his manager: they first met in Mad Gear.
Hugo was Hugo in Ryu Final as we know him in 2I and 3S, German and traveling the world with Poison as his manager searching for a tag team wrestling partner. I thought I did see that Poison’s full name is Poison Kiss other than Club Capcom’s Mighty Final Fight article, but I can’t remember where. Check your FF1 books, aerialgroove, if you can spy any Poison info somewhere. I know AAC just lists him as Poison, as do Eternal and the 15th. But it’s an interesting point you brought up TS about the writer’s/editor’s thought. I noticed that when Hugo in Eternal and the 15th is mentioned in conjunction with FF, they say “from the Final Fight world” or “from the participated Final Fight war” or in the 15th the bold “together with Poison, first appeared in Final Fight,” in the game commentaries. In the separate character story boxes however, they only go as far as “German” and “former Mad Gear member.”; no Final Fight game or Andore lead-in’s. I find that intriguing.
SFZ3 was designed to tie into SF2, even before Revival came out, and AAC as well as AASFZ3 proves it. Capcom USA most likely did make up the Thailand prison scenario, as I’ve read so far that only Nash suffered at Vega’s hands/with Vega, not both Nash and Guile.
That’d be my guess. Yun is in the portable versions of SFZ3, right? Same sort of thing. In both situations, you’re putting chararacters from the SF3 games into SFZ3, and not the other way around. Being different projects, I think SF3 having so few connections to the other SF games was very much intentional.
Ok but that makes it even worse because that means both characters
Look the same (Andore’s hair was changed to black in all art too), same clothes, chain
Fight the same (the ass move and the stomach-dash, wrestling moves)
Are both down with Poison (imagine that BOTH never at the same time)
Were both in Mad Gear(!) so they met before
That’s simply not possible. Either you have to say they are one and the same character, or there are two universes. Is there any other possibility?
Vasili10, any news from the Final Fight prologues?
Since the look of Shoryuken has changed (not very good in my opinion) I get a mail everytime somebody replies eventhough I keep unsubscribing all threads. Anyone else?
It was Udoneko that stated that Capcom told him that the various Street Fighter games were in their own worlds with no continuity to them or whatever. Udoneko, of course, is perhaps one of the most trustworthy English sources we can get for obvious reasons. This, however, is in direct contradiction to the various statements and proofs in all older official sources before that, including ones which had SFZ3, indicating that at least back then, SFZ3 WAS made with continuity in mind. Perhaps NOW Capcom considers them to be different for some bizarre reason, but all indication and evidence and statements are that back then, they did not. In fact, even as late as the Gameboy Advance version of Final Fight, they still had to have considered them the same continuity (as playing as Alpha Guy or Alpha Cody has them referencing both Final Fight and Alpha 3 as the reminisce and flashback about things). SF2 Revival we can’t really be as sure since technically, most of those endings are just better translated versions of endings that were there in Japaneses SF2 all along. But at least for Final Fight One for the GBA, they obviously had continuity in mind.
Given that there is much proof that at least in the old days, they were meant to be the same continuity (although no, we haven’t been able to track down the exact statements how Bison is in SF2 after blowing up in SFZ3 after being unable to find the Rose body switching thing stated anywhere, there’s still proof that they were meant to be in the same continuity), then perhaps the reason Capcom considers them to be separate continuities now might have something to do with how they sold the license to Capcom of America? (BTW, the copyright on the SFZ3 webpage for the PSP game says “Capcom of America”, if you need proof that Capcom of America has the license, now). Or perhaps Capcom decided to declare it all in its own separate continuities to give Udon more freedom with the comic or something. Who knows. I think I’ll just include a note in the plot guide that it’ll be written according to the games being connected just as was what USED TO BE the case for the sake of historical archive purposes as to what Street Fighter continuity used to look like before Capcom randomly decided to retcon everything into their own continuity one day (as the latter and current version of Street Fighter’s canon doesn’t need a plot guide at all if it’s all going to be separate).
On Hugo being an “Andore Clone” but not an Andore:
That would make him the 2nd one, then. Abigail is an “Andore Clone” of sorts as well and hates that fact according to his dialogue in Final Fight One.
And SFIII being completely separate (in terms of how much the storylines and character roster are interconnected) from SFII isn’t really anything that new. SF2 was VERY separate from SF1 as well.
Abigail looks a bit like Andore, he has a different head, different colors. That’s as much as a FF character can get different from his clones. Hugo and Andore though look exactly the same even if not in the same games. Abigail looks like Andore because he’s an ingame clone. A technical clone. Hugo is a perfect copy with same friends clone. Again either
A) they both exist in two universes that both meet in SFZ3 or
B) they are the same character
What other possibility is there?
Well, there is an alternate version for B)
C)They want them to be the same character, but they don’t want the whole FF soty of Andore in SFIII so they only show the parts of Andore that are the same as in the Manga. That way they can have the Manga-Andore in SFIII but still don’t have to change the real Andore’s story. They do what they always do, they simply ignore it. From now on Andore doesn’t matter anymore within the SF world, only Hugo. Then when it comes to the FF aspects, they show him in his FF surroundings, with the other FF characters and call him Andore but still don’t make ANY moves to differ the two.
It would be the same if they would suddenly put the stupid Zangief of SFIIV into SFIV games and call him Wodka and he would look exactly like Zangief and move like Zangief and when he wins Gorbachov shows up. But he’s “not” Zangief.
I’d also like to add that even if you don’t consider FFR canon, Andore’s enging is a lot like Hugo’s SFIII ending and that one came later. Now if they have different stories, why would Capcom make a wrestling ending like in FFR, a non canon game. That means either they told them to make the ending or they made the ending more possible by copying it in their SFIII games. Hugo could go back to Germany or have a unique ending but he has Andore’s ending without the Haggar aspect.
Same with the FFR art. Even if FFR and it’s artwork is not official, it is still older than the SFIII art of Hugo and he looks just like Andore in FFR. My opinion is that Capcom Japan made the art because it sticks to the other official art a lot. They redesigned Andore before Hugo existed that’s why they look exactly the same.
Hugo is the FinalFightDoesntMatter-Andore.
Mike and Mike Bison are nothing like it. They can easily coexist within one universe. Hugo and Andore can’t. Also if you call Abigail an Andore clone you have to call Ken a Ryu clone.
And then there’s the last possible explanation:
D) Hugo is Twelve, who cloned Andore’s body and Gill gave him the German bio to hide the truth.
He would be the very first character to split the universe like that, especially due to Poison existing in both universes. He would be the opposite of the Noembelu case, instead of two designs, sharing one role he is one design sharing two roles, directly connected through Poison though.
2.5 out of 4. When was Andore down with Poison? AAC never puts them together, unlike for Hugo who’s had Poison be his manager ever since Mad Gear completely dissolved.
Andore’s hair was changed to black only for FFR. I haven’t seen it like Hugo’s for anywhere else, and all other places Andore had a scraggly mess of reddish brown hair.
FFR art isn’t older than 2I’s. FFR came out almost 2 years after 2I.
No matter how alike they look, the Russian president is not Gorbachev and Andore is not Hugo. If they were, in Z3 Andore would have his sprite with black hair, or the billboard would show a messy redhaired poser. After all, both Hugo and Andore were introduced to the masses by the time Z3 came out, Andore since FF, Hugo since 2I. Why were they still shown differently and separately in Z3 if they’re the same character?
The circumstances for their similarities are solely the problems of Capcom, and they have not announced that Hugo and Andore are one and the same, only that one is nearly a dead ringer for the other.
I dunno, maybe. It would’ve been great if AAC labeled Andore’s sprite as Hugo’s sprite next to Poison, then being together it would give them a reason to be witnessing the fight while scouting for Hugo’s partner, which AAC does say both Andore and Poison appear in Guy’s Z2 and Z3 stages watching the bouts, and that’s it. In any case, that shot from Guy’s Z3 stage is just an outright tease, with the hobo at Poison’s feet.
I skimmed over the FF1 prologue and the FF2 game story, doesn’t look like there are many things we don’t already know, I’ll still post translations up a little later. Watch for them.
The Prologue to FF1 (SNES version) and the game story for FF2 from the pages aerialgroove provided. Not much new that’s not already in the plot guide, but the FF2 book (and Club Capcom now that I noticed the small print:sweat: ) does list her name as Genryusai Maki (father’s name first) which is commonplace for families developing styles of martial arts. Unfortunately the FF1 boss words were just strategies and movement descriptions, but the art’s not bad considering its age, thanks aerialgroove.:tup:
Prologue
The super crime capital, Metro City. One day, under Mayor Mike Haggar, the enormous group of mayhem nestled in the city, it thoroughly summed up to the attacks of Mad Gear.
However, the Mad Gear guys, succeeded in kidnapping Haggar’s beloved daughter Jessica. Those guys, in the case of too much intervention by the police, will take Jessica’s life.
“What!! You said Jessica was kidnapped? What cowards!!” Here now, 2 characters arose as admirers of justice!!
Game Story
Once Again Begins Mad Gear and the Struggle
Mad Gear’s boss Belger, was defeated through the actions of the trio Cody, Guy, and Haggar. And so, peace returned to Metro City. However, Mad Gear’s remnants began to move for revenge. Mad Gear begins with Guy’s master Genryusai, and his daughter Rena swept away. However Rena was Guy’s betrothed.
2 days later, Haggar gets in touch, with Rena’s younger sister Maki.
“The Mad Gear lot, has kidnapped father and sister Rena. I request for Guy together with 2 others to help out…”
"Huh! Genryusai by the Mad Gear lot…"
However, at the moment Guy had been journeying out for training.
“Mad Gear’s message, left a written clue that the two are in Hong Kong.”
"Fine, I’ll take responsibility for Mad Gear. Since Guy’s not around, I’ll go alone."
Maki promised to join up with Haggar in Hong Kong and just at the time of departure, a man appeared before him.
“Mayor, I’d appreciate becoming of assistance by accompanying you. As such, these evil ones cannot be forgiven.” A South American ruffian appears, originally found by Haggar was the fighting stylist Carlos. Thus these two with Maki, and so begins their trip to Hong Kong where Mad Gear waits. Where is Genryusai? Is Rena alright? And what of the whereabouts of the trio’s struggles…?
