hey…
Does anyone know what happened to Retsu and Geki after SF1?
So… basically, Juli and Juni were officially from Germany before they were given official bios (before they became major playable characters with the home ports of SFA3) and from there, things got all buggered up? …well, that’s just… bizarre whack.
I guess I’ll say she’s a member of T. Hawk’s tribe but should hail from Germany so she’s maybe she’s not exactly a German Native American by strictest latest canon but she’s close enough to one for me! By this point, I don’t think it really matters because I’m getting under the impression that around the time they were trying to reconcile with Noembelu and Juli and everything else, the Capcom storyline writers just threw their hands in the air and screamed “Whatever. We don’t care, anymore!” That would explain why All About Capcom is confused as heck regarding the thing. When storyline writers no longer care about the facts because nonstoryline restrictions forced them to act another way, there probably isn’t much point to getting too anal about analyzing this sort of thing from a fiction perspective.
As for Zangief being gay, while the whole guidebook source thing was refuted long ago (that’s old news by now), I believe Vasili stated that Gief’s SFZ3 win quotes had practically no way of being interpreted as anything but sure gayness. Maybe I’ll just include a note of super implied gaynescity like Eagle.
Speaking of things Capcom may have changed (or, in this case, mistranslated), can anyone confirm that in the A3 storyline, Dan had beat Sagat at some point?
In the Cap USA version, it says “after defeating the man who killed his father, …” The Japanese version seems to say:
“chichi no (father’s) kataki (enemy) o uchitotta… (kill/capture/arrest)” The translation would be, “having killed his father’s enemy…” which seems a bit…odd.
Little help? I guess it could be construed as saying that he brought his father’s killer to justice…sorta…right?
I’ll check the other part of his profile in AASFZ3, but is there mention elsewhere of Sagat losing to Dan? Because it’s not in Sagat’s section. I’m thinking it’s something that only happens in Dan’s story, like how Bison only wins if you play as him (or, lose to him in the arcade version). We all love Dan, on various levels…him beating Sagat leaves me scratching my head, unless Sagat didn’t show up for his match, and was disqualified.
Edit: checking the other part of Dan’s profile (AASFZ3, p.106, as opposed to 431), it does say that Dan beat Sagat, but again…the word usage seems a little…off. It seems to be sort of strong…not like Dan squeaked out a win, but that he really kicked his ass.
I would also like to point out that the only reference to a character in one of the Alpha games made in a non-Alpha was put in there by Capcom of America.
Continuity -10.
And in AAZ3 it doesn’t say that the doll’s locations are where they actually hail from, I don’t think…it’s certainly not the same kanji combination for “nationality,” used elsewhere in the book. Maybe it’s just where they’re stationed? Maybe it’s info on their names, or is racial info (different from nationality; ex. Guy’s nationality is stated as being American, even if he has Japanese heritage).
edit2: it does seem to say something about where they come from, but it’s nonspecific enough for Capcom to weasel something through, as they seem to have done. However, given that they all seemed to be named after months anyway, maybe the names are all counterfeit anyway, and codenames- the countries where the names originate would supposedly be the countries where each agent is from, but I guess the guy who came up with that idea was overridden by the whole T. Hawk angle.
Um…no. Zangief has only one SFZ3 win quote that would be interpreted as gayness and even that one hardly implies any gayness. It is when he says to Ryu, “I hate projectiles, but I like you personally!” That’s it! And that remark could mean a lotta’ things. Lemme give you an example. Tiamat I hate your screen name, but I like you personally(that’s just an example, btw). Does that make me gay? No. Yer gonna tell me that your gonna base your whole argument concerning Zangief’s gayness on one win quote? Are you kidding me? All tha while, Eagle’s got several CVS2 win quotes that scream gay and his homosexuality is considered as only hinted or implied? NIGGA, PLZ! Something is wrong, here.
Word. Tiamat, it seems like there is some need to just force Zangief to be gay somehow eventhough there is no evidence. I say ungay until proofen gay. If they can make Eagle gay that obviously, why would they make it so unclear for Zangief? Why would they use the projectiles thing (this is so ridiculous) when Zangief was the first character who could beat all projectiles with his Lariat while all others had to either shoot one themselves or jump away? This is obviously a gameplay insider quote, it’s about Zangiefs ingame skills. I like you personaly just means eventhough he hates projectiles such as the Hadoken, he likes Ryu just the way Honda, Blanka and Dhalsim like each other as shown in the SFIITV episode, millions of mangas and also the secret files (ie Eddy & Jimmy in the SFIII Secret File). The 8 Street Fighter characters (or at least all except for Guile) seem to be friends in or after SFII. That’s all the 1(!) quote is saying and now tell me that’s an evidence for his gayness. And again not one single non hentai manga, not even the 4 Koma ones depict Zangief as gay. This just totally got out of control. I never saw a different source than the Plot Guide stating that Zangief is gay except for those who copied it from the Plot Guide and considering that there are about 30 books with official detailed information about Zangief it’s just not probable.
I agree with you about the bizaar whackness.
Vasili10, thank you very much for your time and work!
Both went back to training, Retsu possibly kept Gouki from killing Ken after Gouken was murdered, small reference back to the first page of this thread.
TS:
“chichi no (father’s) kataki (enemy) o uchitotta… (kill/capture/arrest)”
“Uchiotta” has one more interpretation, “to take possession of.” The phrase is Dan’s SFZ3 intro reads as “having taken revenge for his father…” Sagat has handed over a victory to Dan by SFZ3’s beginning.
“Kataki o utsu” is an interesting phrase; “kataki” by itself is “foe”, and “utsu” by itself is “to strike”. So putting them together “strike a foe” goes to “avenge” in Japanese. It stumped me too while reading about Ojou-san in HnN. Then after reading Dash no Chris’ interpretation, I made some small changes in my translation, but I don’t completely agree with what he posted. He specifies certain things that I believe the passage just leaves more general. Grammar issues and stuff like that.
Well then did he also save Gouken’s daughter (ojou-san or something like that) from Akuma? Did Akuma kidnap that girl or what?
…man retsu wpuld have been awsome in SFA. They should have put him in their.
Possibly to your first question. Highly doubtful for your second. Yes it would’ve been nice for Retsu to be in SFZ/SFA and not just in Dan’s nosebleed scene.
TS: needed to mention this also above regarding AASFZ3, but the kanji combo found for the dolls does say “country came/hailing from.” The combo found for character bios is “birthplace/native place” and the two combos aren’t that different, just one kanji changed in the end for each.
A little more AAC strangeness: for all 10 non-playable dolls, each entry says "hails/comes from (insert country here), except for Noemberu, in which her entry says “a Latin American woman.”
aerialgroove: some requests with your new collection please. Scout through Gamest #193, the SFZ2 Saturn guide, and All Capcom 1991 and let me know if you suspect any worthwhile story stuff, new art, etc. Also let me know please about this Takayama Repro artbook and if anything’s cool and interesting with the merchandise ads or the Game Gag 1P. Anything else is up to you and everyone else. Domo arigato and enjoy your boodle!
Ah, thanks for the clarification, and you’re right about the kanji, of course…that’s what I get for trying to read a foreign laguage without sleep.
Were there ever any details about Sagat’s loss to Dan?
Yes and I’m all for it! 
So from the looks of things their info was changed once the console version threw in T.Hawk into the mix since All About SFZ3 is based on the Arcade version, and AAC mentions certain things from the console version. And in the Arcade version, they had no storyline like Mike Bison, they were swaps for Vega(cape) also. So I would think “?” was the more finalized version myself. But what you intend to put in the plot guide is fine by me.
Sure thing.
Dunno, in AASFZ3 the best bet would be in Sagat’s stage story. In Dan’s it mostly focuses on Sakura and Dan, so not sure yet. Working on it.
Anything ready yet sano? The SF3 report depends on you!
Goldren Dragon: You don’t like my screen name? 
…just kidding. Though it is a pretty cruddy one. I just use it because it’s the one I’ve been using whenever Tiamat was already taken since my introduction to the internet (before I found out that Tiamat was a girl’s name!)
I’d say that maybe this is due to Noembelu’s nationality being Mexican, except… this was all before T. Hawk was planned for SFZ3 (and thus, assumedly, before Noembelu was planned to be a member of his tribe) so I guess that doesn’t work.
And yes, I do believe this officially makes Juli… um… well, her birthplace is still listed as ??? so maybe I’ll just throw my hands in the air and say “Whatever. Take of it as you see fit, readers!” like Capcom’s storyline writers had to.
Regarding Zangief: Well, maybe not super-implied gayness like Eagle, but with the fitting into the Japanese stereotype for gay (and it’s not just the big muscular hairy man thing. The “I love my body!” thing I THINK is a Japanese stereotype for gay, too, isn’t it?), the dislikes beautiful young women thing, that one quote (who said all his quotes had to be about him being gay? That’d be… horrible), and his introduction with Eagle (Yes, I know there are other possible reasons for that intro. It’s not that the intro with Eagle is a 100% certain thing that Zangief’s gay. It’s that the intro with Eagle is a POSSIBLE implication that Zangief is gay), I’m still inclined to believe that an implied gayness is there.
So I shall say that there is POSSIBLY an IMPLIED gayness to Zangief, then. With a note that perhaps Capcom either forgot or it was overridden when Udon did the endings for Capcom Fighting Jam (It should be noted that Udon’s ending conflicts with Zangief’s 100% confirmed dislike for Young Beautiful Women whether he’s gay or not).
…man, at least there are still people at Capcom that remember that Poison’s a man.
I’ll try to send you stuff today or tomorrow, sorry!
S’alright. I’m just a little miffed that D. ALF from “The Lives of Street Fighter” and Ivan from “The First Place” Italian site haven’t gotten back to me yet, TAS probably won’t respond and Dash no Chris seems to have vanished. Just a little information shortage syndrome, nothing to worry about. Everything will come pouring in at the times when I’ll be too busy to enjoy them and let them sink in, as always.
Oh yeah, currently waiting to see if I win the Street Fighter Zero/2 Book. Back to reading.
Vasili10, I’ll get to it as soon as I got time.
Tiamat, the Udon ending doesn’t proof anything of course, I wouldn’t use it to proof that Zangief is not gay. To me the “evidences” that are getting less with the time are just silly. Also Balrog thinks his body is beautiful but that doesn’t make him gay, eventhough he looks a bit like a woman on some artwork. If you would search long enough you would probably find much better reasons for any other character to be gay than Zangief. The ONLY thing pointing to him being gay is the one single info about the young beautiful women. That’s it and that I accept as a hint to it but it could be interpreted in other ways. Anything else is just too blurry and I wouldn’t even think about them meaning that Zangief is gay. Also why do we have to tell Japanese people what their stereotype for gay men is when they never see Zangief as gay? Kind of weird isn’t it?
NO!! You misunderstand me. I was trying to come up with an example and that’s the only thing I could think of. Your sn’s fine! My sn is crummy. C’mon, now. An sn doesn’t get any more generic than ‘Golden Dragon’.
Fair enough!
vasili10
I forgot to say thanks for translating tha rest of those bios, so thank u! :tup:
After readin’ Guile’s SF2WW backstory, I’ve noticed that this is tha second official Japanese source that doesn’t give any other details on Charlie’s death besides tha fact that Vega (cape) killed him. I’ve only heard tha whole ‘Thailand prison death’ scenario from American sources (specifically the SF2 Turbo and SFA2 instruction manuals, except tha SFA2 instruction manual says that Charlie survived and went to find out who’s behind tha disturbance in Thailand). Was tha ‘Thailand prison’ scenario something made up by Capcom USA from tha very beginning? What does AAC say???
Ojou-san has disappeared from continuity so while it’s possible Retsu stepped into save her, it’s not really important.
My personal theory is, she got upset, Ken already upset, got further motivation from seeing her in emotional distress and Retsu had to step in to save them both. Since then he’s vanished aside from beating Dan.
I don’t know whether the Japanese think of Zangief as gay or not. I’d have to like, you know, understand Japanese and be immersed in Japan’s society to know that. I just know that the macho man who loves his body is one of the stereotypes for gay (for example, Mukki in FF7, although I coulda sworn there are others. Memory escapes me at the moment though). On that note regarding Vega, a bishounen who loves his body is a Japanese stereotype for a playboy who gets all the wimmenz. Go figure. Don’t ask me to understand why this is so because I am not Japanese. :xeye:
On the last post of this page I posted an AOL conversation I had with Jed-Chrizt regarding SF EX and what happened to Hokuto/Kairi. Now, I’m not able to back up anything he says but I share the info all the same, and if someone can confirm/deny please do.
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2622831&posted=1#post2622831
Interesting. I wonder what’s this SF Info Guide by slate that Jed-Chrizt was talking about?
Golden Dragon:
I don’t seem to see any Thailand prison scenario with Guile and Nash anywhere, so I’m guessing that’s a Capcom USA creation. What is supported even in AAC and looks like Guile’s upcoming Dash account also, is that originally Guile and Nash were still staying in touch with each other wherever the Shadoloo base was, but they split up at some point, in a similar manner seen in the last few episodes of SF2V, then Nash got ambushed and offed by Vega as he was telling Guile he’s got a feeling about this Vega guy, which were his final words cut off with the transmission and remembered by Guile before the Zero series came around. Notice the similar scenario with Nash’s SFZ ending.
aerialgroove:
No rip-off mentions in the Complete File, just staff thoughts and name tidbits, no references to other characters in manga, movies, or otherwise. Yes, the sumo wrestler in one of the mangas featured does look like Honda, but the similarity stops there. After reading a series review, the manga’s sumo character isn’t patriotic, happy, and easy-going with even villains; he’s described as invincible, cruel, ruthless, and rude.
Rats, lost the book by a buck! Trying for another one now…got it! My first doujinshi. :party: