Looks like a couple of posts were swallowed. Vas, could you repost the Alex to Ryu quotes again? And I’ll send you Guile’s quotes during the weekend.
And the SMB story too? Hate the swallow monster I do. Ok, I’ll do them again.
Yes, plz. Thanks. Man, this is some bullshit. It’s like whenever SRK is taken down for maintenance, we go back in time.
AGAIN, exactly where is it officially stated that Ryu and Sagat didn’t fight eachother during SF2?
Quick question regarding that hungry thread bastard: I remember one of you saying that he printed out the posts regularly, are you still doing that? I think I’ll make a backup of the whole thread and mark what’s important. I hope that’s legal since I guess the thread somehow belongs to srk.com.
Also vasili10 and Golden Dragon don’t you want an avatar? It would be easier to search for your posts when skipping through the thread, sumimasen.
In the first post of this thread Saiki notes that Mike (SF1) is Mike Bison. But we recently cleared up that they are two separate characters. This to me shows that Saiki just assumes certain things which we then take for granted, we should be careful about such notes without any sources given.
I used to do it but not anymore. SRK has back ups ever since the big crash, if it goes down nowadays it only swallows a couple of days and that’s it. It’s sort of impossible for the crash to happen again in that way unless the back up discs are wiped out too. However, SRK on occasion especially in the General Discussion forum has eaten entire threads, but I think that’s due to General getting more action than the rest of the forums, second only to Fighting. I wonder if this is the biggest thread in SRK history hmmm.
Yes but quite often the forum is not available at all (maybe at times where only I check because of my location on the planet). This is what it would look like, if you have any special wishes let me know:
http://fightingstreet.com/folders/variousinfofolder/shoryukencomfolder/warriorsthread_backup.htm
Right now it has username/avtar, date, page#, post# and of course the posts. I’ll also add marks for storyline important posts.
Hey that looks great! I applaud your efforts! 
Some thoughts
Gill has a great control over the elements Fire and Ice, since he can ignite or freeze opponents on touch, and create damaging fireballs and ice balls out of nothing. Gill also has the power of ‘Miracle’ (according to tiamats faq) which would explain Gills super arts, the angel wings, the bombardment from heaven, the ressurection.
Urien seems to have lesser control of his elements, which seem to be a bit amibigious, probably relating to Earth/Metal and Lighting/Thunder. This is demonstrated by his ability to turn his skin to metal or rock, and his ability to shoot balls of what appears to be spheres of metal shards held with a magnetic field of ball lightning or plasma.
Urien’s ability to control his elements seems to be limited, he seems to be able to create completely controlled fissures of lava from the ground (such as in his winpose) but he doesnt seem to make use of this ability, or his ability to control lightning, which may explain why he is considered weaker than Gill.
Notice how two of Urien’s super arts SA2 Jupiter Thunder and SA3 Aegis Reflector, make reference to thunder in greek/roman mythology, Jupiter being the early version of Thor, the thunder god, and Aegis being the shield of Zeus, which was usually represented as a storm cloud. Storms and Thunder relating to violence, which is pretty much Urien’s nature.
Aegis Reflector is an interesting super that seems to make full use of Uriens Metal and Lightning elements by fusing energized(electrified?) shards of metal together into a perfect shape that breaks down after a short period.
You could make an argument that Urien can control only one element, since lightning can create glass out of sand, as well as fuse rock, but his ground pound winpose doesn’t support this.
The reason why it’s said that no one can master all 66 fighting techniques of the Illuminati organiziation, may be because since it seems that even through the Illuminatis genetic engineering, only one person can gain a maximum of three elemental abilities (fire, Ice, and ‘miracle’ in Gill’s case.) And the 66 techniques refer to every element, making them impossible to learn by one person.
AAC, and rather than saying outright they didn’t fight each other, it says that Sagat still waits for the day they will fight again, even after his SSF2X ending, both in the ending dialogues and in the Sagat entries.
A very insightful and well though out post. Thanks for that.
I thought it was stated that Gil had mastered every one of the 66 techinques though.
Ryu also makes reference to the God of Thunder when using his Dejitz.
Sorry aerialgroove. I commend your efforts, but I don’t want an avatar, at least not yet. Maybe later this year.
Saiki knows a great deal, but he has made mistakes in the past also. 4 years ago on the Gamefaqs thread, there were things he said and others said that he let slide, and having read halfway through what sano has, only one person so far asked him about his sources, to which he said various magazines, Street Fighter guidebooks, the All About series, and Capcom employees. He also mentioned the Fanbook since it has version 1 of Ojou-san, and that’s all I’ve managed to find so far with specific sources.
Just some notes to add that aren’t blatantly in the plot guide (at least I don’t recall them to be) since I’m halfway through the Gamefaqs thread now:
-from Saiki, until SF2 Ryu and Ken’s style was Kyokushinkai karate, a derivative of Shotokan, that I learned is a full-contact style with considerable focus on strenuous training and philosophy. After SF1 he said Capcom changed it to a generic ansatsuken. I feel that it wasn’t until SSF2X that this change occurred; I have yet to see any source break down the style to its building blocks before the Fanbook, which lists karate, judo, and training of the heart/mind; and AASFZ3 later on would describe it even more. In any case, before Gouki appeared in Capcom’s SF universe, it was the basic moves themselves that defined Ryu and Ken’s style, and after that the emphasis was placed more on their three originally killing moves as identifying their style, the present toned-down version of Goutetsu’s ansatsuken.
-About Dan and Retsu, Saiki seemed to agree after reading someone’s explanation that Retsu allowed Dan to continue training in certain moves under him after Gouken excommunicated Dan from Suzaku-jo.
-Bringing up the matter of when Ryu fought Ken and Gouki in SFZ2, Saiki answered for someone that Ryu after Sagat’s defeat made it back to Gouken’s, found Gouken dead, saw Ojou-san was missing, felt Gouki’s chi, and left for Goukentou Shima (Island). Hence he holds that Ryu didn’t see Ken either before leaving to find Gouki, which makes sense of Ken’s speech to Ryu in Ken’s final Zero 2 game battle, he says “It’s been a while…” They hadn’t recently seen each other.
-Saiki and several other people believed that in Vega’s SFZ3 ending, as Ryu’s being siphoned in the psycho drive, Vega blows up Hong Kong as his first target, that being the city you see the laser going into and annihilating in Vega’s ending.
About Gill and Urien, Eternal says that Urien has mastered one of the 66 techniques, Aegis Reflector. The rest of the material that we’ve read about Gill and the 66 have been from Japanese fansites. No other book I have yet talks about Gill and the techniques. I should be getting the rest of the SF3 sources soon, so I should be able to comment more on this later.
That still doesn’t explain why Ken isn’t tracking Gouki down himself or with Ryu. We know from 2I that Gouki has encountered Ken before, probably before he even met Ryu.
Ryu & Ken most likely just missed each other. Ken arrived at the last moment, and to support the dialogue from 2I, started to fight Gouki, showed him some flaming fists no doubt, then depending on how conscious Gouki left him, Ken possibly tried seeing where Ojou-san went, possibly got more details on Gouken’s and Goutetsu’s demise, etc. Meanwhile Ryu reaches the castle, finds Gouken dead and no one else around, most likely buries his master (by the time of SFZ3 it is stated that he visits Gouken’s grave once a year), feels Gouki’s chi pulling him, then takes off immediately. So I most definitely agree with you that Gouki encountered Ken before Ryu.
Isn’t that kind of stretching things considering Ken never really shows any discernible interest in his master’s past? Or most things associated with either Gouken or his style?
One of the things I think Saiki proposed that perhaps Retsu was also present and may have intervened to protect and or Ojousan. That comes on the heels of his statement that Gouken and Retsu were friends of course.
Retsu could fit in anywhere within my proposal, hence I said etc. Although no hard printed evidence is with me yet for what happened between the time Ryu defeats Sagat and resumes traveling, and time he meets up with Gouki, I’m just expanding on what Saiki has left with us. Actually, if you just go by SFZ2’s dialogue, you’ll find that Ryu hardly takes anymore interest with his master’s death or past than Ken does. Ryu doesn’t flatly accuse Gouki of killing Gouken as SFA2 wants you to think. In fact the only time you’ll see Ryu coming even close to badmouthing Gouki is if you meet up with him as SnH Ryu in SFZ2. Ryu’s line if you fight Ryu as Gouki’s midboss: “I will avenge my master’s death.” is Capcom USA’s tinkering again. Gouki last line however in this battle does tell Ryu he’ll die the same way as his master.
I’m not sure if I understood your post but in SFAlpha2 Ryu accuses Gouki in his prefight dialogue (either mid boss or that bonus fight you get, can’t remember), I don’t know about SFZero2 though.
What about his dialogue in Zero1?
aerialgroove: In SFA2 if you fight as Gouki and earn the right to fight your midboss Ryu, Ryu says he will avenge his master’s death. Nowhere else in Alpha 2 does he accuse Gouki, and in Zero 2 Ryu doesn’t make that accusation anyway.
Hcparker: Whose dialogue? In SFZ1 Ryu and Gouki don’t even have any dialogue together.
Co-sign.
Well if the 66 techniques are mentioned in ‘Eternal Challenge’(which is an official source), that’s all the assurance of its legitimacy I need.
Speaking of which, Dan is mentioned in Retsu’s ‘Lives of SF’ bio/profile page. There’s text next to Dan’s name which explains how he and Retsu are related. I understand the translation for the most part, but the word ‘training’ is mentioned in the sentence and I’m not sure how it’s being used. Anyway, take a look for yerself:
???
And so far we haven’t found ANY official sources that support that claim. I mean shit, atleast the stuff about Gill and the 66 techniques is supported by atleast 1 official source. IMO, that whole thing about Gouken and Retsu being friends is bullshit until I hear of an official source that confirms it. Even if it is tru, the idea that Retsu was present during the Gouki vs Gouken battle is a bit of stretch.