You probably have at least one maybe two of his Gamest issues already, so I’ll ask about the third. Thanks for all the goodies sent. :tup:
It doesn’t serve a point in the main story no but there’s nothing else for Guy to do so I would say it happened if for no other reason than to give Guy something to do.
Ohhhhh… I gotcha. Yeah, I don’t see why it couldn’t have happened. It’s mostly filler, anyway.
re: Honda & Fujinoyama (or how ever you spell his name) in Sodom’s Z2 ending
Looking at the ending, I think that when the announcer mentioned “In this corner, Fujinoyama”, he was referring to the other guy, i.e. the guy that Honda was facing, not Honda himself. In other words, had he not been interrupted, his announcement speech would have been something like “In this corner, Fujinoyama!!! And in this corner, Edmund Honda!!!”. Honda was being announced second, but we didn’t hear it because Sodom interrupted the guy.
re: Ryu fights in Z2
I definitely agree that Ryu fought Gouki first. Regardless of Ryu’s focus/lack of focus during that fight, I think Gouki would not have killed him either way since he saw the potential. As noted, Gouki doesn’t kill willynilly: He saw the SNH potential in Ryu and knew he could get a good fight out of it (because of SNH no doubt), so he ends the fight and gives him ye old “Come back when you’re stronger kid” line, more or less. Ryu’s all dazed and confused, and then Ken snaps him back to (almost?) normal later.
I’m not sure about Sakura, but I think it would make more sense if she fought him before Ken. But Gouki was definitely first on Ryu’s fight list.
Fujinoyama is Honda’s registered name, not Sodom’s. The wrestling referee who announces the names wouldn’t hesitate because Sodom gave him a strange name, in fact Sodom doesn’t register under any name thus the referee doesn’t know who he is.
Extra note in SFZ2, the referee doesn’t say “in this corner” for the wrestlers. He says “west” and “east” while he’s in the north side of the ring facing south. Honda’s in the west side facing east, and Sodom’s in the east side facing west.
I agree and I disagree. Yes Gouki could have sensed Ryu’s SnH potential. However Gouki is nothing if not ruthless and ready to kill anyone he views as weak.
It also still doesn’t explain why Ken didn’t accompany Ryu when he went after Gouki. After all, virtually every thing else indicates that Ken is the only one who’s SEEN Gouki and would also likely be searching for his master’s killer.
Yeah, that’s strange, Ken should know or at least want to know who killed Gouken.
Someone sold secret files on Yahoo Japan. On the bottom right side is a Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure secret file and he also sold the SFZ3 and SFIII 3rd Strike secret file. I’ll try to get it next time and scan it.
http://img111.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/5/3/6/4/world_1973-img600x450-1122171181yahoo_003.jpg
Have you seen the new SFII book cover (Udon)?
Are you talking about the new SF Eternal Challenge covers done by Shinkiro and Ikeno that I posted here not to long ago or are you talking about Alvin Lee’s cover for the Street Fighter II Issue Zero comic? Anyway, yes to all three counts. 
Me and Stick-Click came to an agreement so I’m getting all of his Arcadia Issues. Some of them like I said I have already but he wanted to sell all of them at once so that was the deal breaker. With the hefty price I’m spending Stick-Click said he’d toss in some bonus material, hopefully I’ll get some good stuff.
vasili10:
Actually, I was referring to the other sumo that Honda was going to wrestle, not Sodom. Honda was obviously going to wrestle somebody before Sodom showed up and interrupted. I was thinking that Fujinoyama was referring to that other guy. Does it officially say that Fujinoyama is Honda’s registered name?
Hcparker:
> I agree and I disagree. Yes Gouki could have sensed Ryu’s SnH potential. However Gouki is nothing if not ruthless and ready to kill anyone he views as weak.
If Gouki sensed his SnH potential, why would he want to kill him? Gouki’s not stupid. Ryu was not weak, he just lacked knowledge. If Gouki killed Ryu before he could fully tap that potential, then Gouki wouldn’t get as good a fight as he could have. Gouki knows Ryu probably doesn’t know a thing about SnH, so he probably used that fight to put Ryu on the “correct path”, and then left it at that.
I dunno about Ken though.
I personally think that Ryu defeated Gouki while he was holding back and during the fight Gouki sensed hid SnH. So by defeating Gouki(Even though he was holding back) Ryu showed that one day he would possible be and excellent fight in the future.
And yeah I have always wondered why Ken didn’t go with him. Maybe he thought this was something Ryu had to do on his own since Gouken was like hie father. But that doesn’t sound like the Ken we all know and love. Oh well
Official Member of Team Death
You go against us and you DIE!!!..Simple as that.
I’ve been thinking about the Ken thing and a post by sano in the FG forum about what may have happened during the second SF tournament. He speculated that one of things that could have happened to allow Guile or Chun li to face Vega is Ryu beating Ken then dropping out of the tournament.
That led to me to wonder if Ken dropped out or threw his match with Guile or Chun li to let them face Vega.
IIRC sano reiterated the two official statements from Capcom about this tournament that is 1)Ryu and Sagat did not face each other and 2)Gouki killed Vega with the ShunGokuSatsu.
Also Ryu states in SF3 that he used to beat a man from India who could stretch his limbs thus implying he defeated Dhalsim and in his pre-fight dialogue with Ken he says he has the better win record. The only official fight he has with Ken that we know the outcome with is in Z2 which Ken wins. It’s possible they fought in the 3rd tournament but not likely.
So my take on the second tournament goes as such:
Ryu defeated Dhalsim.
Ryu did not face Vega in the finals nor did he likely fight either Bison or Balrog.
The winner of Ryu and Ken’s fight let either Guile or Chun li win their match and dropped out.
Sagat dropped out of the tournament when Ryu left.
Gouki killed Vega AFTER the tournament was over and he had lost against Guile or Chun li.
One match that could have happened that I haven’t seen discussed is Cammy vs. Balrog. Neither fighter reappears post SSF2T so perhaps something happened or perhaps not.
I haven’t read it to say officially that Fujinoyama was Honda’s registered name in AAC, quite surprised since it gives separate entries for things like the Ten guy, Adon’s reference to Gouki, and even Gomen ne! aka Chun Li’s taunt. Still, because the referee says east and west in accordance with the positions of the sumo ring, and west is the referee’s right side in the ending scene, where Honda is positioned, and the referee announces “west, Fuuuujiiinoooyamaaa,”; that’s why Fujinoyama is Honda and not the other wrestler whom Sodom replaced. It’s a Japanese realization that was completely thrown out in SFA2, with saying “in this corner,” etc.
Yeah, one of my older theories was that Ryu fought Ken, whoever won the fight dropped out since they only seem to care about their rematch more than anything, if Ryu won why would he even bother continuing. He beat Mike in SF1 and would prolly see Mike Bison as the same guy, he knows he’s not ready for Sagat and he had a hand in taking down a much stronger Vega(Cape) in SFZ3. But I’ve heard the theory of Ryu going after Gouki after sensing his Ki and thus dropping out a few times, for some reason I like that scenario just a bit more than him plainly dropping out. Guile or Chun-Li can deal with Vega, Ryu can deal with Gouki after he kills Vega. It gives Ryu a chance to fight the “true SF2 boss” and still giving him main cahracter qualities while the other characters deal with Vega. However Ryu vs. Gouki would prolly just be another learning match, Gouki holding back to see how much Ryu has improved, but in SF2 gameplay wise he had no Shun Goku Satsu, he’s already held back a bit so maybe Ryu can catch another SFZ2 style win here. Anyway, that’s just how I see it.
RANDOM: Mwahahaha… finally did it and created a sketch of Ryu and Chun-Li’s bastard child Tonbo for the SF4 Thread in the fan art section. (Sano runs away as all of the storyline people come to his house with flaming pitch forks…)
On this thread I put down Tonbo’s… BRILLIANT (?) storyline scenario too. 
So exactly where is it officially stated that Ryu and Sagat didn’t fight eachother? I realize that’s what happens in his SF2 series endings, but did it officially occur? It’s been bugging me for a while and I’d just like a clear answer.
Speaking of ‘finals, the North American arcade flyer for the original SF2 says that the game is set during the tournament’s final round(s). That would explain the small cast of characters. Of course, the reliability of that source is iffy for obvious reasons. Just thought it was interesting. I do believe Ryu and Ken fought during the SF2 tournament. ‘Eternal Challenge’ states that Ken trained hard in order to decisively defeat Ryu at least once and married Eliza afterwards. I suppose Ken might’ve one that match, but it sounds like EC’s speaking in generalities when they say Ken defeated Ryu, instead of just saying that Ken defeated Ryu during SF2. Then again, perhaps they are referring to SF2. I just wish they were clearer on that subject. In any case, we know Eliza was racing to reunite with him, so he was either A) eventually defeated/eliminated and married Eliza afterwards or B) eventually approached by Eliza and dropped outta the competition. I suppose it’s possible Ryu could’ve dropped outta’ the competition after his match with Ken, but not for SOME of the reasons sano mentioned, IMO (mainly the stuff about Balrog and Sagat). Why would he avoid fighting Sagat? Ryu’s a fighter who’s always seeking strong/stronger opponents. However, I think it’s likely that he might’ve left to find and fight Gouki after sensing his Ki. If not, then he either A) defeated M. Bison, won the tournament, and fought Gouki afterwards or B) was about to engage in battle with M. Bison, but Gouki intervened and murdered Bison with the SGS. It’s a tough call ‘cuz there weren’t many competitors in the tournament capable of defeating Ryu, IMO. The only characters who I’m certain are capable of beating Ryu in a fight are Sagat and Ken(runners-up are Chun-Li and Guile). EC confirms that Chun-Li successfully finished her father’s case against Shadaloo and brought down Bison’s evil plans over time(We guessed as much). Whether or not she fought and defeated Bison is another story, though I’m not ruling it out. It should be known that Chun-Li entered the tournament with the intention of killing M. Bison (not just defeating him in battle). It’s likely that Guile defeated M. Bison and his SF2 ending happened. The only problem is that it leaves M. Bison alive. Perhaps Bison attempted to attack Guile while he was leaving with his family, but Gouki intervened and killed him with the SGS . I know, it’s a lil’ farfetched. Or perhaps Guile’s family caught up with him (before he even made it to the fight with M. Bison) and talked him outta’ carrying out his murderous plans, causing Guile to drop outta’ the competition prematurely.
In both Ryu and Dhalsim’s SF2 series endings, M. Bison is in 2nd place while Sagat is in 3rd. I find this a lil’ confusing, 'cuz M. Bison didn’t even participate in the tournament. I thought the set-up was that the 15 characters (NOT including Akuma) fought amongst each other and the fighter who came out victorious earned the right to battle M. Bison in the final round of competition (atleast that’s what we’ve been led to believe). Why is M. Bison in 2nd place? After all, didn’t Ryu hold the championship title at the time? Bison/Shadaloo was only sponsoring the contest.
In all of Ryu’s endings, it’s stated over and over again that he cares nothing for titles or ceremonies, only the fight. Thus it’s conceivable that while he is acknowledged as a World Champion, he is not the world champion or even the current champion. Each sponsor of the tournaent has very different reasons for holding it. Sagat held it for pride, Vega for revenge and Gill to find those most worthy.
Sano: I think similar to what you described happened as Guile did beat Vega and Chun li did destroy Shadolaw’s organization but I don’t think Gouki jumped in and saved Guile at all. For one thing, that’s not Gouki’s nature and way of doing things.
I don’t even think Guile knows Gouki exists. I mean near as I can deduce very few fighters relatively speaking have any in-game contact with him at all:
Ryu
Ken
Vega
Gen
Adon
Oro
Sean
Guy
Rose
And that’s about it. Of that group only Ken, Ryu, Vega, Gen and Rose I think have confirmed face to face meetings with him. Oro does not but senses his ki anyways while Adon is busy trying to hurt him down. Sean gets a joke interaction while Guy’s meeting most likely didn’t happen at all.
Maybe a few other characters like Sagat and Sakura could sense Gouki but I doubt it.
In any case, had Gouki ‘saved’ Guile, I have to think he’d be asking a lot more questions and looking for the man named Ten. So would Chun Li by my thinking.
The more I think about it the more lame the official story of SFII becomes, now after Zero and Gouki appearing in the tournament. Is it even possible to tell the official story and not make it extremely boring with everybody not fighting, dropping out, getting talked out of fighting and then just Gouki showing up and killing Vega with one move? The whole thing about SFII and what made the storyline so interesting is gone.
I doubt that Capcom even spent ten minutes on this topic. There is no real tournament ingame with cameras, announcer, audience and such (DBZ like), that’s why the story was always told in completely different ways (SFII Manga comic with an official tournament where you could bid on your favorite fighter, SFIIAM with no tournament and just the characters meeting, Udon with well we’ll see, and the trillions of comics that all made up new stuff to fill the large gap of not knowing what the whole event was like (compared to such precise questions as who fought who). My personal guess is that they wanted to make it like Dragonball first, with the stage of Vega being the final stadium for the fight. You get an idea of what Akiman wanted the event to be like if you look at the giant map of the Shad base. The whole point of giving SFII an own storyline is gone, now that everything happens in SFZ3. Back then the best was always the character you played, then Vega, then Sagat and it would probably have continued with Balrog and M.Bison. Why? Because that’s all Capcom could make up, the rest of the time was spent in design and background story for each character. After the game got so popular they had to make up some more stuff but they never cleared up the rules of the tournament. So my personal thought is that Sagat and Vega standing on the podium doesn’t mean anything but laziness.
This is one theory I’ve been pondering over for a while actually. We know that both times Vega is destroyed, it’s from getting grabbed from behind, first by Nash and then by Gouki. I had fancied that Guile was finally going to kill Vega, then Julia and Chris appear, talk Guile out of it, Guile lets go, Vega’s enraged that Guile won’t finish him off, pulls off a nearly-dead DBZ Freeza on Namek and launches at all of them with a final psycho crusher, to which Gouki says “enough of this”, appears, grabs Vega and destroys him for good, then vanishes.
I don’t believe that Gouki fought anyone else in SF2 except for Vega, which of course wasn’t really much of a fight, and for several reasons.
- In SSF2X, CPU Shin Gouki says the same generic speech to everyone if you see him appear. This speech was carried into SFZ as CPU Shin Gouki, SFZ2 as CPU Shin Gouki, and SF32I as CPU ordinary and CPU Shin Gouki, with the exception of Ryu and Ken meeting Gouki in 2I. Hence Ryu and Ken are most likely the only fighters Gouki comes across in 2I storywise, and of course Gouki comes across others as well in the Zero series and SF3. Bottom line, if Gouki tells you “I am of the ultimate fist…” it’s not a canon battle but the CPU’s reward for you to fight him, nothing more.
- This was interesting to see: again in SSF2X, had you succeeded in defeating Gouki, what happened to your ending? For most fighters it remained the same as if you defeated Vega normally. But for three, Cammy, T. Hawk, and Guile, a slight change was made in the normal dialogues, and the most significant one was in Guile’s. Chun Li also has always said at her father’s grave that the evil organization’s been destroyed, never Vega himself, like the US versions have said “now that I have destroyed Bison…”, sorry wrong wrong Capcom USA. Confessions had to be made before Vega’s demise if all SF2 endings were to happen in some shape or form, and Gouki wouldn’t interfere with those. More on this later in my forthcoming SF2 endings evolution report: from World Warrior to Revival, textwise every character has at least two and at most three unique endings, something to look forward to later on from me. :bgrin:
- In Revival, you cannot fight CPU Gouki in arcade mode, remember the horrible glitch? Thus the only time he’s around in the story persay is when you use him yourself, you defeat Vega with him, and Gouki’s Revival ending is nothing more than a pasting together of his two possible SSF2X endings, first with Vega destroyed and then with his shadow pummeled. Coincidence for the glitch? Who knows…
aerialgroove:
> The whole thing about SFII and what made the storyline so interesting is gone.
Wait: Since when did “SF2 storyline” and “interesting” belong in the same sentence?
I didn’t think of it as Gouki saving Guile. Atleast that isn’t what I mean. Gouki did it for his own reasons, not outta concern for Guile. I forgot to mention that Gouki vanishes aftewards.
Agreed. However, it is a fact that the SF2 series is set within a tournament. Hadouken no Nazo, instruction manuals, endings, dash accounts etc. confirm that. The only thing is that Capcom doesn’t emphasize it as much as Namco and/or SNK Playmore do with the Tekken and KOF series. The tournament aspect doesn’t have much significance in the story, which is why the story has been told in several different ways. Eventually, SF2’s storyline eventually became insignificant altogether after the Zero series was created (mainly/particularly Zero 3). The SF2 tournament was always said to be an ‘underground’ tournament, which might explain why it didn’t receive any media coverage. I realize the whole ‘podium’ thing doesn’t carry much significance in the overall story, but I was just curious.
TEEHEE!!!
Damn tease :karate:
btw, not sure if I asked this earlier but in the CFJ dialogue request files I’d like to add Guile to Ryu, Alex to Guile and Guile to Chun Li along the reverses of course.