Before Zero 2 came out, the SF universe timeline went according to game release dates for games prior to SFZ. SF1 happened in 1987, FF happened in 1989, SFZ events went clear into 1990 where Z3 is today, and SF2 in 1991. Entering into SFZ, Guy is already proclaimed the 39th Bushinryu master, so he’s already had his fight to the death with Zeku; aka the game’s not about his training to become the 39th, he already is, just like if you enter SFZ3 as him. The real time year is 1995.
Next real time year 1996, SFZ2 comes out. Now Capcom decided to have Guy still training to become the 39th, and he meets Zeku at the end of the game, Guy’s ending, to then engage the fight to the death. Back to the SF universe timeline: now with Zero 2 events beginning in 1988, now FF is backed up to 1987 because both FF and SF1 still have to be prior to SFZ2 as before with SFZ, and consequently FF2 backs up to where SFZ2 is as well, to account for Guy’s absence in FF2.
If Saiki said that Zeku’s still alive after Guy’s become the 39th, hey I’m always ears as to what’s the evidence. The only way I see the master still alive after a deathmatch is if the apprentice mercifully spares the master’s life for some reason; with Zeku and Genryusai it could’ve been old age I suppose, if Capcom thought that far when creating Zeku.
I told Dash no Chris about that as well, no comments yet. However, if this pic comes from the same place as the old Nash w/ Guile burnt-out photo pic seen in Red Cyclone’s page, which the webmaster says came from an old manga story, Capcom might have liked them so much that they made them official at the time (maybe they still are, dunno); and because it was another artist who did them, Capcom would still be correct in saying they themselves never made designs for Chun Li’s father.
aerialgroove: I wasn’t aware that you were getting the book too. Yes HnN is the Mysteries of the Hadouken book. I was going to send you the scans since you originally asked for them when I first talked about HnN, so thanks a bunch for volunteering.
Here’s a small Street Fighter Alpha Generations trailer, thanks to Sagatryu for directing me to Manga’s site:
Yeah, I can’t watch the trailer on this PC at my job, doesn’t use Quicktime and rejects free downloads of it. I’ll have to wait until I get home to see it on my PC at home. Can anyone tell me what I’m missing for now?
EDIT: Over at the poll at http://www.capcomcity.com Guile is currently beating out everyone else as this July 4th’s most patriotic Capcom Character.
Jericho from Darkwatch - 31 votes (24.0%)
Smith from Killer 7 - 12 votes (9.3%)
Protoman from Megaman Battle Network - 9 votes (7.0%)
Colonel from Megaman Battle Network - 7 votes (5.4%)
Guile from Capcom Fighting Evolution - 46 votes (35.7%)
A little bit of Ryu, a little bit of Sakura, a little bit of Gouki, and a lot of talking. Looks like the people at Evo2k5 will be able to see it first before anyone else, but they’ll most likely be seeing it in English, so I can wait until the DVD comes out and see it in Japanese.
I don’t like how Gouki looks in the Trailer, too chubby and bully. Also too much glowing and shooting for my taste. Looks almost like an X-Men VS SF movie.
vasili10, what comic is the photo of Guile from? It’s not in HnN, right?
Thanks.
According to Red Cyclone’s webmaster and Golden Dragon, it was from a story called Skinhead published in an ancient game magazine called Marukatsu Super Famicom. Apparently the webmaster doesn’t even have the issue anymore. But fortunately the pic is in HnN also, same drawing style as young Chun Li, Blanka & his mother, and Ken with his bride Eliza. Those are the three you’ll be wanting to scan. All others have been shown in other books.
sano: Sure thing, and if a fansub does appear, you can be certain I’ll grab that as well until the time comes! :tup:
Ah hah. So in other words, we do adjust the timeline accordingly, and ignore the “Final Fight takes place officially in 1989” thing, much like we have done all along. Though I guess your explanation was more in depth as to how and why, even if the end result is the same.
In fact, if this is the case, why were we even talking about “Final Fight officially takes place in 1989” a few pages back at all?
One thing though: I thought SF2’s official date was based on Cammy’s age, which is 19 in SF2. Since her birthdate is 1974, that puts SF2 in 1993 (the same year that Super SF2 came out). Was this always the case (i.e. before SFZ) or did they retcon this after the fact?
Kinda sucks about Zeku though. I always thought that he lived after that fight. When he said “Do you stake your life on it?”, I thought he was asking if he was willing to fight to the death, not necessarily that he had to fight to the death. We do know that Genryusai was still alive after he fought Zeku, but it’s quite possible (hell, probably very likely) that Capcom simply forgot about any death match requirements. After all, the only reason Capcom came up with Zeku is because they completely forgot Genryusai existed. >:|
Or maybe there are no death match requirements… maybe Zeku’s fight with Guy was special or something and Zeku wanted it. Bah. Who knows…
Okay, finally saw it. Why’s it called Alpha when Ryu has a red headband? I mean, he’s supposed to have a red one by SFZ3, but the last Anime left off with him fighting Gouki with the white headband, oh well, it’s not like anyone gets the headband thing right anyways, and who knows if this one has anything to do with the last one. Or if this is their second fight or something.
Yeah, Gouki is fat.
Didn’t care much for that water gun Hadouken.
I liked the way they drew Ryu’s face, (them blue eyes seriously needed to go, along with Ken’s purple eyes and Chun’s red eyes… course I’ve seen all three of these guys in Capcom art with blue eyes anyways, so they suffer from the typical anime/manga eye color switch disease…) he really looked like a Fist of the North Star type of character. I’m not thrilled about the anatomy though. The last Anime Umakoshi was copying Bengus, big hands and big feet, as was Shuko Murase with the DS Anime (but Murase took the exaggeration to a whole new level which was really great) but here the anatomy is straight forward, like taking a step back all the way to the SF2 Animated Movie.
Overall I’m still pretty excited, it’s still going to rock to see Gouki vs. Ryu in an anime. I would love to see Chun-Li in this one but if they have to force a Shadowloo story in there just to give her camera time, I’d rather she just made a cameo.
Two months to write the story, I’ve heard great things about Dead Leaves too. Very interesting…
Mostly because Dash no Chris brought up the fact that Final Fight One still says 1989 (due to probably the same reason that Revival endings didn’t show up in the Hyper SF2 Collection, Capcom’s forgotten and/or lazy), and my suggestions to reconcile the Final Fight games so that all ages would still work out. Bottom line, it’s all relative, but SF has priority because it has seniority.
Cammy’s age could be used to officialize SF2’s date once SFZ3 was released. AAC never gives her age in her SSF2 entry but does say in her SFZ3 entry that she’s 15-16, and both entries say that Colonel Wolfman finds her and takes her into Delta Red 3 years before SF2. We’ll see if more can be found from her SSF2 street story later on when I get to it.
When FF2 came around and Genryusai appeared, he was Guy’s master, but Capcom didn’t have FF2 come up with the formal 38th or 37th masters yet. When SFZ and Zeku came onto the scene, Zeku was now Guy’s master and the 38th Bushinryu master, and the stipulations of Bushinryu Ninjutsu appeared. Capcom dug their own hole by introducing Zeku and Bushinryu formalities, but we’re stuck with them now, and we’re forced to extrapolate what’s the deal with Genryusai still alive.
Genryusai existed before the formalities of becoming a Bushinryu master did. Those came with the introduction of Zeku. If Capcom thought they could solve the problem by simply bumping Genryusai down to 37th master instead of 38th, they didn’t realize the other holes they were digging themselves into. With the formalities made after Genryusai’s around, we don’t know why he’s still alive. If Zeku wasn’t made, then we could say Guy still hasn’t fought Genryusai to become the 39th yet. Or if Zeku was made but no formal Bushinryu statements on becoming the next master that would’ve been okay as well. But both were made, and so here we are, assuming that Zeku must’ve spared Genryusai, and Guy may have spared Zeku, which is clearly not the Japanese mentality of truly inheriting a fighting style (what Gouki embraces BTW), exceptions being most notably acts of mercy (which I could see with Genryusai and Zeku because of major age differences but not with Zeku and Guy) and the passing of styles within immediate families (if Maki were to fight her father for the title for instance, hypothetically of course).
Like I said before, if Saiki or anyone’s got proof that Zeku was spared after Guy became the 39th, lay it on me.
But we established that it looks like Gouken was a master before his master was killed off by Gouki most likely since Ryu was likely left to a “Master” to be taken care of and not a student, and as you stated Sakura was born at the same time Gouki and Gouken’s master was murdered, making Ryu left with Gouken much earlier than Gouken’s death, so you have Gouken being a master without the death of his master. Or are you just saying that it is only Gouki that has the view of for him to become the master, he has to kill his master and Gouken just felt like he was a master? Well, the Ansatsuken school doesn’t say anything about killing your teacher anyways, and even if it did, it’s not like pacifist Gouken would believe in it or teach it.
Perhaps there are other ways of becoming a Bushin Ryu master that don’t involve death? Take Fist of the North Star for example. There can only by one master at the time, all other students have to either abandon the practice, have their memory erased or have their fists destroyed. Anyway, food for thought.
I have won the Academy Award for using the word master the most times in one post. Thank you all.
Responses to paragraphs are backwards, just to avoid confusion:
I suppose there could always be other ways, but a fight to the death is the common mindset.
Ansatsuken by it’s very name is not a style with formal attachments. It’s generic. You won’t see Goutetsu called the umpteenth inheritor and Gouken the umpteenth + 1.
Gouken doesn’t believe practitioners should live for the style, but rather the style should live through them and grow in them, basically shifting the importance from the style itself to instead the style’s user, what’s more important to preserve, the style or the user. Gouki’s naturally the opposite. More on this when I repost the full version of Ken’s SFZ account much later.
Wrong. It’s mentioned in Maki’s CVS2 ‘ending’ that Genryusai is dead. Maki’s A3 account doesn’t even mention Genryusai.
Maki’s CVS2 ending text:
“The final bout…but…I wonder where Guy is…?”
After her father died, Maki’s been searching for Guy to see
who is more qualified to be the next master. She didn’t
find him this time. She says, “I will see him someday…”
Maki’s A3 account/biography:
Maki… She’s a modern Ninja and an expert in Bushin style.
Searching for her missing rival Guy, she travels the world.
She must prove to herself that she is the legitimate successor.
Btw, when will the Alpha 2 anime be released in Japan?
Yeah, Saiki did say Zeku didn’t die and that the comment Zeku made about Guy staking his life had a different meaning. However, if AAC clearly states that the fight between them was a deathmatch then chances are Zeku died. While we’re on the subject, does anyone know where it’s stated that Genryusai’s now the 37th Bunshin-ryu master(Zeku’s master) and NOT Guy’s master? I remember Saiki saying that Genryusai’s backstory was retconned, but he never provided a source. I find it strange that Capcom would bother to retcon that, considering they don’t care to remember ANYTHING having to do with the FF sequels(Maki being an exception). I find it interesting that Genryusai isn’t even mentioned in Maki’s A3 account. It’s as if they did that purposely to avoid the whole Zeku/Genryusai thing.
I was wondering where Genryusai was mentioned after checking Zero 3 Upper Maki’s opening and not blatantly seeing his name. Now I need to see Maki’s ending in CvS2, just for insurance, haven’t played CvS2 in a while anyway. Hey sano, does your CvS2 book give endings as well as quotes?
mbthomas claims that the new anime debuts in Japan around the end of this month, the 26th I believe.
I don’t know where it says that Genryusai is the 37th and not Guy’s master anymore, I’d imagine if there is one it would be a source for CvS2 since that’s probably the latest game that refers to him in any way, but Crawfish’s Zero 3 Upper omitted lots of stuff altogether, so I’m not too shocked about that.
I’m glad you brought that up. ‘Ansatsuken’ isn’t even the name of their style, really. Their fighting style is a ‘type’ of Ansatsuken. Atleast, that’s usually how it’s described. I could be wrong, but I don’t think their style even has an official name. Very few sources refer to it as simply ‘ansatsuken’. Most Japanese SF-related websites I’ve been to refer to Ryu and Ken’s style as either ‘Martial Art/Karate originated from Assassination fist/Ansatsuken’, ‘Martial Art based on Karate + Qigong method’, or ‘original martial art based on Karate’. Gouki’s style is usually referred to as ‘Assassination Fist/Ansatsuken’ with ‘Satsui no Hadou’ in parentheses, or just ‘Satsui no Hadou’.
One I would disagree that it’s the Japanese way of inheriting a style for the master to be killed by his apprentice. The only time that becomes relevant is when Gouki kills Goutetsu (and we don’t even know how Goutetsu felt as he died) regarding this.
I would add that Gouken spares Gouki in their first match.
Second, for Guy to kill Zeku would grossely out of character for him. As proof I would point to Rolento who survived FF and apparently FF2 alive even though both times he either directly or indirectly conflicts with Guy’s mission and/or family.
The ONLY time we see Guy kill anyone is Belger in Final Fight Revenge if you want to count that as canon. And Belger’s appearance in that game was the very definition of ‘unnatural’ or against Bushin.
“I would add that Gouken spares Gouki in their first match.”
-Where is that from? Is that in the Plot Guide?
Is the pic of Maki as a biker(gangmember) also in there? I haven’t found it in the FF2 guide and as far as I can tell it’s not in the Japanese manual of FF2 either. And there are no other official books of FF2.
