If we were going to require tournament organizers to specifically state every possible act that isn’t allowed they’d be there all day. It’s unfair to hold them to that standard when there are countless ways somebody can gain an advantage over the opponent. Would you seriously suggest that blocking your opponent’s view of the TV needs to be specifically stated in the rules? Like I said, “no cheating” more or less covers everything. And I don’t see how anybody can conclude that turbo is not cheating when the guy you’re playing doesn’t have it. And especially if he doesn’t know you’re using it.
Being able to much more easily get a reversal lariat by mashing one binded button is definitely an advantage. Like shoultzula said, remember the controversy with one button dash in MVC2? And that was even at the cost of an assist button. Imagine if the game let you assign an extra button to dashing; everybody would be using that perversion for better execution instead of playing the original arcade game as it was meant to be.
Anyway, official standards can only be defined when the vast majority of tourney players agree to them. No Gouki in HDR has been a given accepted by every serious player (incidentally, Evo’s early decision probably legitimized this rule more than anything). But then you have HDR’s aspect ratio where 4:3 is used in far more tourneys nationwide (including Evo) but many players on the west coast seem to prefer 16:9.
Adding on rules to tournaments about banning turbos/macros is insufficient information without explaining why. I understand that you can’t explain every rule in every tourney, so all we can do is spread the word.
Like I said before, new players don’t know what the big deal is as long as it’s not game breaking.
Other new players (mostly pads) figure turbos/macros will help them compete without learning the skill we call execution. They will believe it’s not fair for them if it’s not mentioned in a defined ruleset to learn how to play without programs.
I do have faith in the community to help each other explain why things are done a certain way :wgrin:
Maybe somebody could make a “Playing in a Fair and Competitive Environment” thread for the new crowd that addresses some of these issues? It could be helpful.
Ok, I HAVE NEVER ALLOWED turbo buttons at Final Round. I see that I didn’t put that down in my official rules this year, but it widely known that autofire is banned in tournament play. If these noobs need to see it in stone then it will be changed today. Obviously it was an oversight on my part, but I will NOT ALLOW turbo/autofire at ANY finalround tournament.
I don’t even like allowing the :3k: pr :3p: default macro in capcom games so why in the hell would I allow autofire/turbo button? If anyone is caught using autofire/turbo button at Final Round will be disqualified fromn the tournament due to cheating with an unfair advantage. Fighting games are not 1st person shooters or side scrolling games like megaman. I will never allow people to play them like they are side scrolling at Final Round. If my rules keeps anyone from from attending final round then i’m sorry, but spoon feeding has to stop.
Our community rules are base off of the foundation of arcade tournament play. In the arcades there are no turbo buttons or macro :3k: or :3p: button. We have made slight changes to concessions in recent years to help the new influx of pad players that never played in the arcades. They only know about using macro’s because they learned how to play with the default console set up’s. Autofire/Turbo button isn’t a tool that shouldn’t be used in ANY game. This will never be allowed at Final Round and it shouldn’t be allowed at any serious tournament imo. IMO this isn’t a topic worth talking about because anyone with any amount of skill or knowledge of how fighting games are played would know autofire is NEVER ALLOWED in tournament play. If don’t agree with that then I don’t know whatelse to say to you. It’s obvious that you need to learn how to correctly play fighting games.
This is great, ShinBlanka. Exactly what I was thinking. Keep the turbo to mega man and contra!
:lovin:lets go to an arcade!:lovin:
Again, can we separate the 3P/3K issue from the turbo issue?
They are completely different. One is out of necessity, the other is not.
if standard pad player not allowed to use 3p/3k, that is super hard 
I used turbo and he didn’t know/didn’t do shit.
No, they don’t. The arcade versions of these games never had 3P or 3K buttons.
The 3P and 3K buttons are a concession to casual players at home to make it easier to play the game with a controller. It’s essentially a built in cheat.
I think it should even be banned in SSFIV.
As a veteran Mega Man player and all around Mega Man obsessed person, I find the implication offensive. Real Mega Man players don’t use turbo! :arazz:
Also, FPS competitors would have quite a few issues with turbo, as well. Really any game pitting one player against another essentially can consider turbo “cheating.”
Ah, but what of a fighting game that has no arcade version? And is a tournament using a console version trying to replicate the arcade as closely as possible or simply playing the console version for what it is? If so, should it? :looney:
I’m sorry if I brought up the :3p: :3k: issue into this thread. That was the concession our community has made for the growing pad players influx in to the community, but that’s as far as it goes! No turbo buttons. Atleast not at any event I organize. I can’t and won’t speak for other organizers. All I would say is if you feel the same way about turbo buttonsas I do and you organize tournaments then make sure you post it in the rules section so there is no misunderstanding durig the tournament. Like calipower saidthis isn’t a witch hunt type thread. Just a thread to make people aware of a growing problem that someof the newer players don’t know/understand the no turbo button rules. We can’t assume people know that rule anymore.
But, we aren’t playing in an arcade with arcade equipment. Why would you apply rules for different equipment to pads?
A pad is not an arcade stick. It shouldn’t be treated as one, just because of some sort of nostalgic love for arcades.
Even though I’m an arcade purist, but if people allow console characters (which I wish they wouldn’t), it just seems silly to not allow 3P or 3K bindings.
No to turbo but ok on 3p/3k on pad only should be fair
It seems this cultural going to have major setback with ideal as these dictating. Arcade authentic is an old ideal that needs to be left alone for the golden age that’s already been dead for years.
I honestly feel were limiting the growth of this cultural with the leading organizer and player icons always using the. “The game was meant to be played in arcades methods.” This is propaganda that I grew tire of and is inane. For a community that desire to grow, there seems to be the essence of strong elitist that don’t welcome any people of indifferent ideas. (Sounds very counterproductive)
I?ve accepted arcades are done and welcome the generations of consoles which will ultimately dominate in game media activity’s (if it already hasn?t, besides personal computer) because its flexibility in nature. The community needs to be more flexible and not this hard core bigotry, that fails to adapt in the new growing generation. I planned to pave new path for this generation, one that will be developed with the intention of benign flexible and ultimately maintaining competitive integrity that’s long been neglected.
Oh chivalry where art thou? (Pun intended)
I think the :3p: and :3k: thing should be permitted simply by virtue of 1) pads being an extremely common control device, 2) it being almost essential for pads since those commands were never intended to be nearly as difficult as they can be on certain controllers, and 3) since Capcom and other devs more or less officially endorse them.
But there still has to be limits and I think that’s pretty much where the line is because of those three factors. A keyboard isn’t a pad or a stick and is arguably worse than both but it wouldn’t be right for somebody to come in with a keyboard and say “Well, I’m at a disadvantage so I’m going to map 1 button supers, ok?” If somebody is crazy enough to use a keyboard as their favorite interface device then they can get the :3p: and :3k: but that’s it.
I’m all for 3p or 3k on pad or stick. It’s not an unfair for advantage for a pad player. It’s a necessity. Way to awkward to do 3p or 3k on a pad. Anything else (easy specials, mapped throws, turbos, dir. shortcuts etc.) is uncivilized.
All of you guys know there is a big difference between the issue of console characters, feature, no arcade version, etc and button binding.
This issue isn’t simple. We have to find a balance between the old arcade standard and the current scene on consoles. I think on this issue we need to stick to the old standard.
There’s no difference between pushing 3 buttons on an arcade machine and on an arcade stick at home.
There’s no way you can make a rule so that 3P and 3K are legal on pads but not sticks. The majority of tournament players are going to be playing on sticks. Do we really want to turn SF into an 8 button game?
I don’t. We’ve got to recognize that the the SF games are marketed towards a casual audience, and that the default settings of a game are not necessarily the tournament standard.
To be honest, I want a new standard that isn’t based on anything but whatever is best for the scene. From there we can have a fresh start.