Fooling around with the training mode again in alpha anthology
Xenozip you’ve probably answered this a million times but in the vc where chun does the rising kick than a s.sk and then you can jump and go into crouch cancels, how come the opponent cant flip after the standing short?
I know chun is the only character with “real” unflippable cc’s but why is this again? Thanks 
You can’t airblock his scrapes or 360+K move. Technically you don’t need to start with a normal move, you can just start from a scrape. The Strong scrape has really good vertical reach, but you can also use the Jab scrape.
The startup time for the scrapes is a bit slow – slow enough that the opponent returns to active frames after the activation flash before they are hit by the scrape. So, there is the risk of the opponent doing a counter-activation. However, if the opponent doesn’t counter-activate and if you time the scrape immediately coming out of the VC activation (buffered during the activation), you should have enough invulnerability time to blow-through most attacks.
Well, actually Rolento has a gauranteed setup because there aren’t any neutral states in his. He trasitions from ground to air via his command super jump.
And, technically there are other VC’s that transition into a CC without allowing the opponent the ability to tech flip. However, it’s not gauranteed that the opponent will not be able to tech because most of them are very timing specific. For a lot of unflippable setups you have to just-frame it.
Chun-Li’s is nearly gauranteed because you just have to time the standing SK right when you land. Basically, if you time it wrong the whole set-up fails anyway and they won’t land on the shadow. But if you time it right so that they land on the shadow, it’s gauranteed that they won’t be able to flip after the shadow hits them.
The reason they are possible is because the shadow is hitting the opponent, which puts the opponent in a “hit” state and therefor they can’t act/move for a few frames. If hitstun frames overlap the recovery frames of your attack, then they won’t be able to flip because the only time when they could have acted was when they were getting hit (by the shadow), and aren’t able to act after the hitstun has finished because you have left the recovery frames and are now in a non-neutral jump state.
Sodom’s VC1 setups are a good example, since if you time the attack right there’s a pretty good chance the opponent can’t tech.
Though, the point is kind of moot since most VC’s that CAN be flipped rely on the fact that you can’t airblock when leaving tech-flip recovery state. Thus, if the opponent does tech flip they are only hurting themselves by resetting the combo count (and therefor resetting damage scaling).
Guess the answer is basically no then. The LK > Strong scrape ones works if they try to cross me up at least I guess.
Even if I buffer the motion or whatever, the scrape ones are still wayyy too slow unless I see the jump coming way in advance which I won’t against anyone good. I’ve never seen anyone use them except against Dhalsim.
Kind of off topic, but related to my previous post… In HSFA non-A3 characters immediately become invulnerable and fall to the ground if you enter a neutral state. This means that almost every CC setup that transitions from ground to air will fail on non-A3 characters.
I say “almost” because also as previously stated, Rolento doesn’t enter any neutral states during his transition between ground to air, because he has a command jump (super jump) which puts him into the air.
However, the need for CC’s is actually relative and character-dependant.
Since both OTG’s and “slam damage” still exists in HSFA, characters like; Zangief, Akuma, Sodom, Cammy/Juni, Birdie, etc. can still cause massive damage without needing to CC at all.
Though, characters like V-Vega and V-Chun-Li definitely suffer immensely due to their lack of damage outside of CC’s.
[Edit]: Actually, V-Guy may also have a gauranteed transition as well. But I really don’t spend much time playing HSFA so that’s just a theory.
Hmm… I’ll have to get back to you on that.
Do you have any more info or tips on anti-airing via sweeps at the start of a vc?
Ive done it with rolento about 1/50 tries, and chun seems to work every time, probably because her sweep covers alot more area, and further from the ground than most other characters
yeah, it’s all off the scrapes for the most part.
but there’s always taunt :lol:
no seriously
early taunt, whiff jab scrape, s.rh
or taunt, walk cancel, s.rh, whiff jab.
then there’s his dp+k toss, strong scrape, whiff jab scrape, s.rh
all equally inpractical especially as taunt’s can’t be cancelled out of and i’m pretty the the priorty sucks, but hey it’s something and seing people get pissed off from the taunt always provides a laugh.
other than that you’ll just have to get used to make the space (usually by moving back), so that jump attacks fall short enough to give you a AA free scrape.
cr.fierce, jab/strong scrape and b+fierce, jab/strong scrape works too but the scrape must hit and getting it to hit is pretty inconsistent because you have to fight against the games ‘air hit recover thing’
(I don’t mean tech flips).
For most anti-air sweep VC’s the opponent has to attack in the air in order for them to work. It mostly has to do with hitboxes. For the most part, if the opponent is hit as they land (not out of the air), they become invulnerable. If they are hit out of the air then they will be juggable.
It is easier with Chun because her sweep is pretty high off the ground so it doesn’t require the opponent to attack at all. However, most of the time if the sweep’s hitbox isn’t particularly high off the ground (like Rolento’s), then it’s not hitting them out of the air, it’s hitting them when they touch the ground. So in order to anti-air with those, the opponent needs to attack.
The opponent is attacking, its not really an opponent, its just a macro i setup for 2p to do an air attack so i can practice trying to sweep him
So you dont have any tips besides practice?
What Xenozip has said is correct, and I’ll only add: The jump attack that you’re attempting to sweep must be fairly deep; you’re hitting the attacker out of their jump attack.
What macro system are you using?
Follow Middlekick’s advice; you want the attack deep. The SFAA recording system is kind of weak. You might get better results practicing in training mode against certain CPU characters that have a habit of doing deep jump-ins.
If you’re using Rolento, you kind of need to hit with his body/hip, rather than his extended leg/boot. You also have to time the SJ and j.FK/RH pretty early (I recommend using j.FK).
Other than that, yeah… practice. But if you’re still having trouble with it, you might consider using an anti-air sweep to set-up Rolento’s crossup unblockables instead.
Im using WinKawaks
I wrote the macro so 2p does a crossup without enough waits to do it pretty deep, generally the crossup mk beats my sweep though
It seems to work really well with sodom though and cancelling the sweep into a jigoku scrape to start his midscreen
My other question is if the opponent does a jumping attack at the peak of their jump will the sweep still work? Or do you need to get kind of an in vc counter-hit on the opponent
Only reason the crossup would beat your sweep is if the activation invulnerability wore off. Which means you need to be activating later. Try crouching and then activating right before you get hit, then immediately inputting the sweep just as you’re leaving the activation freeze.
In this case it’s more of a timing issue. But just consider that while crouching your hitbox is really small, and therefor you’re able to activate much later than you would need to if you were standing.
You could also try setting up another macro: Sakura dp+FP, cross-up j.MK. In this instance you’re invulnerable on the ground and while waking up, and as soon as you leave invulnerability Sakura’s hitbox should be deep and close enough that you’re forced into correct timing and distance. EG. you have to reversal-activate, but if you succeed, then you can punish with an anti-air sweep VC.
This is a more practical form of practice anyway (IMO), since it’s a more commonly used crossup trap (Karin’s and Cammy’s too, FYI).
For your V-Cody video, you used a jab > jump LK set-up for the CC infinite, but when I try it, they flip and airblock it half the time. It seems to work more often if I jab them at the earliest possible point, and then immediately jump LK as fast I can.
Same with the c. MP set-up on occasion. I don’t know why, sometimes they flip before the shadow even hits.
I’m juggling them with RH instead of FP since it’s easier not to cross over or drop them that way, and I haven’t seen any of the Japanese Cody players use FP either, but they rarely flip during CC set-ups because they don’t want to risk resetting the damage counter.
It’s not that I can’t get the set-up to work, it’s that I can’t seem to guarantee it. I don’t like leaving it to chance. Especially against characters like Chun’ and Vega where I ‘need’ that infinite.
When I use VC2. I can just whiff FP and jump up and they get hit by the shadow of one of the tornados, but for the VC1 ones I’m clueless.
Also, what strength criminal upper were you using for the guard crush VC?
I’ve been using the FP version, but I’m wondering if maybe the others are better.
Right on the first few points. The timing for the j.SK is kinda strict off the JP setup – it’s a 5 frame window to input the j.SK, which isn’t so bad (it just kinda “feels” strict). And, the timing for the c.MP must be executed pretty deep in order for the shadow to connect prior to your recovery frames (and is therefor difficult to time) for the c.SP setup. Which reminds me, I’m hitting with the JP and not the shadow of the JP in that vid, which may or may not help. The reason I do it so deep is it removes the possability that the opponent could late tech backward and then would therefor be out of reach of the j.SK, although it’s not really necessary to do it that deep. It actually might be better to do it early.
As for the FP/RH juggles, both do the same damage IIRC. Only reason to do one or the other is preferance. It’s also easier to accidently do a FP criminal upper when you’re juggling with FP, but ehh… I did it to show it’s possible (which is why I also put a RH juggle combo in there).
And you’re right, the VC2 setup’s require less timing. But again, it’s really just a timing issue. Technically both the JP and c.SP setups in the vid are inescapable so long as you time the j.SK right. Personally, I like the VC1 setups because of the initial damage (particularly in the corner) and also because I’m more use to those type of setups from playing other chars.
And for the guard crush I use FP. I think you kind of have to anyway because it moves you forward more and causes more block stun than the other strengths. But then I always assumed FP was better anyway because it chips more (more hits).
Update: Added Birdie.
I’ll be adjusting the Zangief, Rose, and Vega ones next to include some things I missed. I have a few theories rolling around so I might also revisit Akuma and the dolls. Does anyone have any other suggestions for any of the current vids? Any comments or suggestions are welcome of course.
Also, is anyone willing to help type up transcripts? PM please.
PS.
I apologize for dragging things out, I hope people understand. I’m really sketchy on Ken and Balrog (boxer) right now – I actually think Balrog (boxer) may have absolutely nothing outside of guard crushes and air-to-air activation VC’s. If anyone wants to take a stab at those characters then by all means please do.
On the other hand, I do have some solid Adon and R.Mika combos and a few wacky Blanka combos on the way.
I read somewhere that Boxer has: VC1 anti-air crouching Roundhouse (hits the opponent out of their jump attack)-> a whiffed crouching Strong-> shadow crouching Strong hits-> jump to cc series. Tried for a while and couldn’t get the combo to work. Mind you, I always practise against Classical characters so that might be the reason; and even though shadow hit VCs do work against Classical characters, there are some VCs which are seeminlgy impossible to perform against them. Chun’s VC1 anti-air crouching Roundhouse-> whiffed standing Short, for example. Though VC1 crouching Roundhouse> whiffed standing Strong works just fine.
Also, the Good Book lists that it’s possible to cancel from the higher strengths of his TAP into his specials. I’m not sure how you can make use of that, though. Additionally, there’s also a Sagat only, corner only jumping Fierce-> activate VC1-> crouching Forward-> [crouching Forward-> Forward Dashing Upper] x n thing.
And if you really need some filler for a Boxer vid, there’s always the Good Book’s jumping Fierce-> VC2 -> [standing Jab x 4-> jumping Fierce] x 4-> standing Jab x 3-> standing Fierce-> VC ends-> Jab Dashing Straight.
Thanks MK. Good info.
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this vid has a balrog corner vc at the end
I remember seeing a midscreen vc but i can’t remember if it started with a crouch cancel
i’ll try to find the vid
found it in
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they start with a air to air counterhit so might as wel do jumping fierces but it looks nice
That mid-screen they used isn’t too bad.
You could just do AA c. RH, LK Dash uppercut, whiff c. RH, LK Dash uppercut to corner, then CC jump FPs. Damage was pretty good too.
Didn’t know Blanka had a CC infinite either.
Problem is, that VC is not a true juggle and the opponent can easily escape. During a VC, Boxer cannot cancel from any of his specials save the TAP or the Buffalo Headbutt (in the home versions).
As for Blanka, though he has a cc infinite, it involves cc-ing with his Fierce till he gets 50% meter so he can re-activate; very difficult. The sequence in the vid, if continued, will eventually allow the opponent to become too low to be juggled.