Vega (Claw) Thread

[zaspacer]

I was watching the 3 v 3 team tournament that was posted in the videos thread. DGV was there I believe? He played 2 games and got beaten quite bad, maybe he had a bad day because I’ve played him and he was better than that.

DGV wasn’t able to get a handle on his controller at EVO.

EVO is a bunch of monitors on tables (the tables are small and you cannot play with your controller on them) and players have to figure out a way to play the game using some combination of the floor and chairs.

Some play on the ground, some play with the controller in their laps as they sit in a chair, some kneel in front of the chair using it as a table… and some struggle because they can’t find a position that approximates what they are used to.

I saw DGV try to play with the controller on the ground, on a chair with him on the ground, on a chair with him in another chair, etc.

Didn’t matter, he never found a way that worked for him.
I saw many instances where an opponent jumped on him and his Ryu dipped his head in reaction as another uppercut failed to come out.

I feel Dictator has to be Claw’s worst matchup.

Dictator was Claw’s 2nd worst matchup in Super Turbo:

Super Turbo - New Arcadia Diagram

With the nerf’s to Boxer and buffs to Dictator, it’s not surprising that Dictator would be Claw’s worst matchup in HDR.

:d::mk: completely beats my entire ground game.

Well, not “completely”:
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
0:02 in
0:08 in
0:16 in

[media=youtube]cQHTzSRs9-E[/media]
0:02 in

[media=youtube]Ni2GfMN2plg[/media]
0:09 in
0:19 in

But YES, for the most part, Dictator’s :d::mk: is nasty for Claw.
And it seems in the replays that ARG takes great care to stay out of mid range from Dictator.

Straight up :u::mp: completely shuts down my walldive game and even beats tip of claw walldives cleanly. And now he can even followup with a Juggle.
Did the added juggle property change it in any other way aswell ?

Dictator’s :u::hp: has an even better hit box for Dictator. (but the move does come out slower)

I can barely corner pressure since he can get out with DR now.

If you come in with a jumping attack, Dictator will have to stand to block, or else you will be able to hit him on the jump-in and then combo it into 1-2 hits on the ground.

DR can also get him out of Walldives it seems.

Grab or dive?

I have to be honest absolutely no idea what to do in this matchup. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Check out what Claw is doing in these vids:
http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/dictator/dictatormatches.html#Vega

LOTS of keeping at very long range from Dictator.
Pokes mix-ups from very long range, or jumps to punish Dictator Scissor Kick or Torpedo advances.
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
1:15 in jump.up.Strong to punish Scissor Kick, follow up with crouching strong to combo, then another crouching strong to push back

Walk or slide forward to bait, then jump back with crouching.Strong attack when land.
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
1:09 in
1:21 in

If Dictator executes high jumping.toward.Strongx2, counter with attack then follow-up with ground attack string:
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
0:15 in (what is that anti-air attack Claw is using there?)

Bait jump to hit with flip kicks.

If Dictator gets knocked down, walldive as he gets up or jump on him with toward.Fierce or up.Forward or up.Strong:
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
0:26 in; 0:28; 1:40 in toward.Fierce (follow with ground attack string, crouching.Short then jump again, walk close to and jump straight up, or other mix-up)
0:29 in up.Forward
0:30 in up.Strong

When at mid range, block and jump back to get distance.

When at very close range, use double attack string to push out.
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
1:07 in
1:39 in
[media=youtube]cQHTzSRs9-E[/media]
0:27 in
0:33 in

4 attack ground poke string:
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
0:09 in
0:16 in
[media=youtube]cQHTzSRs9-E[/media]
0:37 in (3-hit variation)
[media=youtube]Ni2GfMN2plg[/media]
0:20 in (3-hit variation with Jab roll lead-in after slide knockdown)
[media=youtube]Ni2GfMN2plg[/media]
1:43 in (3-hit variation with Jab roll lead-in after slide knockdown)

Punish predictable pokes with Flip Kick (VERY risky):
[media=youtube]cQHTzSRs9-E[/media]
0:35 in

Punish Torpedo from distance with standing.Jab
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
0:08 in (follow up with ground attack string: standing short, crouching short, crouching.Jab, standing.Fierce)

Punish blocked Fierce.Torpedo with crouching.Strong after it passes:
[media=youtube]1faRHXW2o4Q[/media]
0:17 in
1:12 in

6 poke attack string after jump.toward.Short:
[media=youtube]1faRHXW2o4Q[/media]
0:04 in

3-hit ground attack after cross-up walldive:
[media=youtube]Ni2GfMN2plg[/media]
0:28 in

Slide to escape high jump over:
[media=youtube]Ni2GfMN2plg[/media]
0:48 in

DON’T GET CORNERED WITH DICTATOR AT CLOSE RANGE

Study this chart and memorize how Dictator can use Scissor and Torpedo to cross you up in the corner after you’ve been knocked down:
http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/dictator/specialcrossups/
Dictator’s Scissor Kicks will ALWAYS cross you up if you are knocked down.
Dictator’s Torpedo can only cross you up in the corner on the side below your character’s portrait.

[Shari]

God i love you so much.

Grab or dive?

Dive.

If Dictator executes high jumping.toward.Strongx2, counter with attack then follow-up with ground attack string:
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
0:15 in (what is that anti-air attack Claw is using there?)

Close :hk:

You’re one of the Dictators i have the most trouble with hopefully you will be willing to do a few sets sometime so i can get some practice.

Thanks a lot. :lovin:

[xcfrisco]

One more thing that I didn’t mention versus projectile throwers…if you’re at full screen range and you anticipate/react to them starting to throw a projectile, that’s a free off-your-wall Wall Dive Izuna Suplex for you. You need to be really quick though. Guile and Dee Jay recover a little too quickly, though.

omfg, keep this in mind folks. I used to think it was super tight timing that let me wall-dive against these two cause sometimes they would punish and sometimes they wouldn’t but now i know the ones who didn’t punish just suck.

With DJ, (I believe) you can still wall-dive cross them up if they do roundhouse up-kicks because of the slower start up than his other up-kicks. A lot of (probably bad) DJ’s go for the roundhouse up-kicks x2 for that sweet damage. My friend recently caught on to this though and now just does short up-kicks and my wall dive get beat clean every time :sad:

[Shari]

snip.

You can get around this though by already being in the air when they throw their projectile giving you alot more leniency for doing the izuna or tagging them with the tip.

There are two ways of doing that.

Either by simply doing fake walldive over and over and until they throw or advance on you which gets rid of their charge and opening up your offense.

Or by doing the more risky option of doing halfway dives which lets you pressure him with but is vulnerable to their anti air.

This is also a great way to get in on a turtling Ken player.

So yes i take back what i have said earlier Fake Walldive has uses.
Very good ones.

[Heavenly_Claw]

snip

I’d rep the crap out of you if I could, buddy. Great advice on my worst matchup anyways LOL

[Heavenly_Claw]

You can get around this though by already being in the air when they throw their projectile giving you alot more leniency for doing the izuna or tagging them with the tip.

There are two ways of doing that.

Either by simply doing fake walldive over and over and until they throw or advance on you which gets rid of their charge and opening up your offense.

Or by doing the more risky option of doing halfway dives which lets you pressure him with but is vulnerable to their anti air.

This is also a great way to get in on a turtling Ken player.

So yes i take back what i have said earlier Fake Walldive has uses.
Very good ones.

I’d like to add that both Deejay and Guile’s jumps are rather slow, sometimes you can walldive and hit them from behind when they attempt to jump forward at you or whiff their anti airs

[zaspacer]

You’re one of the Dictators i have the most trouble with hopefully you will be willing to do a few sets sometime so i can get some practice.

I’d be happy to help practice.

But the lag in our matches might play havoc on tuning tactics toward less laggy play.

Also, make sure to have anyone you practice with tighten up their tactics vs. you as well.
To really test yourself you need to make sure your opponent is bringing the best anti-Claw game possible.

[zaspacer]

When at very close range, use double attack string to push out.
[media=youtube]t2YzYX12PlQ[/media]
1:07 in
1:39 in
[media=youtube]cQHTzSRs9-E[/media]
0:27 in
0:33 in

I think it’s important to note that 3 of the 4 crouching attack (Strong?) push outs were done in reaction to a blocked Dictator standing Short.

[Shari]

Spanish Clawing Ninja Turtle! Spanish Clawing Ninja Turtle! Spanish Clawing Ninja Turtle! Turtle in a white mask! Turtle power!

Ugh.

I’m wondering if Zangief can splash or knee his way through cr.:hp:…or possibly Banishing Flat after a missed cr.:mp: and stuff the next move…or Kick Lariat through cr.:mp: and then SPD. There has to be something 'Gief can do. This fight can’t be that easy.

Had a chance to try this out today.

Splash and Knee will trade with :d::hp: at certain ranges.

But.

Vega can simply take a step backwards and st:hk: will beat both splash and the knee cleanly:lovin:

[1hitparry]

Vega can simply take a step backwards and st:hk: will beat both splash and the knee cleanly:lovin:

I’ve had problems, though, where they splash almost immediately and I can’t step back. : ( What about just back flipping out?

[Shari]

I’ve had problems, though, where they splash almost immediately and I can’t step back. : ( What about just back flipping out?

Backflip works or you can just do a st:hk: anyway 8/10 cases it will still beat it clean. If you do backflip remember to hold down back so you can catch him with a :hk: flipkick if he jumps after you when you backflip.

If you’re scared of a dizzy you can just do jump back :hp: and get away for free.

[System_1]

yeah I’ve noticed on knockdown with bison, that if you walldive, its safer to just use the claw attack instead of going for izuna drop. most bisons will try and use j. lp or j. mp on wake up, but using the claw attack after walldive seems to always catch them. it just sucks that all his normal moves beat vega’s specials…grrr.

[FreshOJ]

yeah I’ve noticed on knockdown with bison, that if you walldive, its safer to just use the claw attack instead of going for izuna drop. most bisons will try and use j. lp or j. mp on wake up, but using the claw attack after walldive seems to always catch them. it just sucks that all his normal moves beat vega’s specials…grrr.

If he has time to do a jumping attack, you’re not wall diving early enough after knocking him down. If anything, he should be trying to escape with a Devil’s Reverse. Other than that, Dictator has absolutely no way of countering you. You can even grab him out of any other move that he tries. See the Throw Shenanigans video that zaspacer posted in this thread.

[System_1]

usually I immediately wall dive off of c. HK, and somtimes, a bison player has somehow been able to counter my walldives with a jump and mp…but its rare.

[smokemare]

Some observations from the weekends extended play sessions:-

1. It’s worth getting into the habit of automatically starting with a MK if you are very close and crouching. Ending the irritation of reaching past with your claw is a good thing and C:MK seems a decent normal anyway. It sounds obvious, but numerous times I’ve got hit simply by not training myself to use C:MK when you don’t have a charge, are crouching and want to stay crouching.

2. The slide is a great move, firstly people still don’t seem to always grasp how far away you can hit them with this. Also when people are going to for a cross up tick setup, sure you can backflip out of the way, or flipkick them, but if the distance is right you can use the slide to dodge under their jumping attack, have no block stun and sometimes hit them while they are facing the wrong way.

3. Jumping HP is a fantastic move, it’s hitboxes and priority make it probably the best ‘jump in’ for Vega, particularly against standing and even more so crouching opponents.

4. The range on the Super Izna is not just extended - it takes the micky, it looks like the other guy teleports two or three character widths into your arms sometimes…

[Heavenly_Claw]

Some observations from the weekends extended play sessions:-

1. It’s worth getting into the habit of automatically starting with a MK if you are very close and crouching. Ending the irritation of reaching past with your claw is a good thing and C:MK seems a decent normal anyway. It sounds obvious, but numerous times I’ve got hit simply by not training myself to use C:MK when you don’t have a charge, are crouching and want to stay crouching.

2. The slide is a great move, firstly people still don’t seem to always grasp how far away you can hit them with this. Also when people are going to for a cross up tick setup, sure you can backflip out of the way, or flipkick them, but if the distance is right you can use the slide to dodge under their jumping attack, have no block stun and sometimes hit them while they are facing the wrong way.

3. Jumping HP is a fantastic move, it’s hitboxes and priority make it probably the best ‘jump in’ for Vega, particularly against standing and even more so crouching opponents.

4. The range on the Super Izna is not just extended - it takes the micky, it looks like the other guy teleports two or three character widths into your arms sometimes…

I’d like to add a little…

If you know your opponent likes to jump or advance quickly, Neutral J.HP is a great opener. C. MP is good against projectile throwers who like to start with projectiles.It seems like the best opener for Vega if the opponents ability is unknown is a wall dive, which can lead to a fake to create distance, or close in on them if they suddenly go defensive.

C. MK is wonderful for lower defense and can be used as a fake c.HK. In other words, you can punish dp reverse happy kens by faking with this move, then punishing afterwards.

Sliding C. HK is also good for sliding under opponents and punishing afterwards. If blocked, leaves claw pretty open so needs to used cautiously or on footsie range.

You can also purposely whiff Flip Kick during jumping cross up attempts to get out of the way.

[FreshOJ]

Some observations from the weekends extended play sessions:-

1. It’s worth getting into the habit of automatically starting with a MK if you are very close and crouching. Ending the irritation of reaching past with your claw is a good thing and C:MK seems a decent normal anyway. It sounds obvious, but numerous times I’ve got hit simply by not training myself to use C:MK when you don’t have a charge, are crouching and want to stay crouching.

Don’t forget that cr.:mk:, cr.:mp: is Vega’s bread-and-butter link. If you’re close enough to reach past your opponent when you try cr.:mp:, you’re passing up an easy 2 hit combo. Do the link instead. At point blank range, use cr.:mk: twice before linking to cr.:mp: for a 3 hit combo. This info has worked since Champion Edition when I used to be a scrubby wall-diving fool the majority of the time.

For more links…READ MY FAQ!!! Go to GameFAQs.com and read my HDR Cross-up, Link, and Combo FAQ.

2. The slide is a great move, firstly people still don’t seem to always grasp how far away you can hit them with this. Also when people are going to for a cross up tick setup, sure you can backflip out of the way, or flipkick them, but if the distance is right you can use the slide to dodge under their jumping attack, have no block stun and sometimes hit them while they are facing the wrong way.

I can get with you on the max range slide…especially because ST and HDR are the only versions of SF2 in which that is a viable strategy. Even a max range slide in any other game is punishable by most of the cast.

Note, however, that because Claw is pretty much the fastest character in the game, most players are not going to try to cross you up if you weren’t knocked down first. The only exceptions here are those that have really fast jumps or those with controllable aerial moves. Trying to cross up Claw outside of those qualifications is begging to get suplexed. He’s already too thin to cross up easily, but add his speed to the mix? Nah man…I don’t like that strategy.

I snipped the other points because I agree…but don’t neglect j.:hk:. It has its uses. J.:hp: is better for crossing up, though. (J.:mk: is even better…if you like actually executing crossups.)

[System_1]

okay, I’ve searched this thread, and I wanted some opinions or everyone’s individual strategies to counter bison. I played zaspacer and he showed me just how inadequate my game is against bison. I watched the vids he posted here, but I was wondering if vega has any priority moves that can counter bison’s retarded devil’s reverse and his mk and mp (standing or jumping)

[FreshOJ]

okay, I’ve searched this thread, and I wanted some opinions or everyone’s individual strategies to counter bison. I played zaspacer and he showed me just how inadequate my game is against bison. I watched the vids he posted here, but I was wondering if vega has any priority moves that can counter bison’s retarded devil’s reverse and his mk and mp (standing or jumping)

Other than possibly cr.:hp: to counter Dictator’s Devil’s Reverse if he’s not directly overhead or crossing you up (pretty much meaning he’s a scrub and not zaspacer)…ummm…yeah…this may not be a gorgeous time for you!

How does 3K Backflip to evade Devil’s Reverse sound? Or…you could try to walk under him when he tries to fly over you to cross you up?

Yeah…I’d like to read the answer to this question, myself.

[System_1]

yeah I met an ugly end when I play really good bisons…and that lousy throw he does after that scissor kick of his is also annoying…his c. mk gets me all the time no matter what I try to counter with.