USF4 Ken Improvement Thread (+EVO Result)

[Slimztheguy]

Chaos had a good point. Ken really needs his standing forward from 3s, for anti air pokestrings. Keep his classic f.mk, but st.mk should mimic 3s. Crazy kicks wouldn’t be too bad an addition either, as long as we don’t lose his 3s command kicks. Crazy kicks should be done with HCB or HCF this time around.

There’s NO reason why Ken shouldn’t be able to FADC for full Ultra. It’s not that devastating, and Shinryuken FADC Ultra is piss poor damage.

Playing Ken in 3s for nearly 8 years is what made me love the character so much. While Ken seemed mid-tier at first, his weaknesses became extremely apparent over the span of SF4’s life. Further evaluating the character, there’s just some things that they neglected in designing SF4 Ken that make ZERO sense. Most of them have already been mentioned in this thread. Granted, most posting here have been Ken users in SF4 for a long time now. Especially Chaos and myself, sticking with it since August 08. I’m not going to give up Ken in SF4, but it just makes you hope for a better Super 4.

i feel you on that one max. :rock::clapdos:

[clownbot]

faster walk speed

fix his srk

that is about it

[JoontheBaboon]

Max, maybe you or Chaos should just make a new thread. It would be nice to have an AWESOME Ken player as the one suggesting the changes… Rather than one with half a bar of neg rep (no offense, Joon).

I think you’re the better candidate, since Chaos and Mag are still working on our SFIV match ups and such.

I’m sure we could just get the mods to delete this one… Or, as fast as this forum is moving, just make a new one, and this one will be forgotten really soon.

We’ll have to talk to a mod first, since they posted that sticky about all the threads and repeat threads popping up. I just think we’ll get more clout if they see US Dragonboy as the OP, instead of someone with half a bar of neg rep. (Again, no offense, Joon).

How many times are you going to kick me in the balls and say sorry? Capcoms not going to look at a thread by a person’s Rep-Groove; only the content that’s in it.

i think that this idea is just plain bad. because ryu and ken’s sweeps are the same total number of frames as is, ryu just has more recovery on his than ken, while ken has more start-up than ryu.

if they gave ken the quick start-up then it would mean he could be punished on a blocked sweep like ryu, no thanks.

oh and i’m gonna sign my name to the list of ken’s not wanting his tatsu’s to knock-down… it’s a integral part of his rushdown offense. and to whoever said it’s a 50/50 after ex tatsu… that’s just not true, ex tatsu leaves you at a frame advantage which means you have better odds of dealing damage than they do. their only options are: block/tech or srk. while we can combo them if they attempt to throw-tech, so it puts things slightly more in kens favor.

edit: his hk tatsu leaves him at -2, not -1. would be nice if it left him even or at -1 only, shouldn’t get punished for landing a combo on gief

You do have a point, but 8 frame start-up is just way too slow compared to Ryu’s 5 frame start-up sweep and Gouken/Akuma’s 6 frame start-up sweep. Ken should have 5 or 6 frame start-up sweep.

P.S. On eventhubs’ frame data, Ken’s Fierce Tatsu leaves him at -1 on hit.

Stop saying that. Half of this thread did. We want the same moves he had in previous games, which weren’t a ryu copy. It would be as good, if the things stated above will be fixed.

We dont want faster fireballs. Or a knockdown fireball, or a spinning tatsu… aka ryu. Better shoryuken, cause that’s ken’s trademark thing. It wouldnt make sense that the others have better ones. Less recovery on some moves \ :.

And a more damaging FADC to ultra, but he will have a new ultra anyways =D

@smokes: some of the best kens posted in this thread. Dr chaos, probably being top 1 USA ken, or at least very very good. Max is also very good

I agree with you Bryanv2. I think most of us can agree that Ken doesn’t need faster Hadoken or knock-down Tatsu like Ryu. Ken’s signature is SRK; he should have the best one in the game.

[Niko9193]

Give him his air throw back:)

[Dragonplex]

Fix his wienerschnitzel haircut…

[Dr.Chaos]

The Ken Of Tomorrow

Other people said make a new one and I’ve been playing Ken since 08 so…

Ken in SF4 is a character that has to put up with a lot of BS from certain characters. Even if that player is a not even 50% as good as you are, you still have to watch out because you can’t afford many mistakes playing this character Ken. Which isn’t to bad, but just to make our lives a little easier is a few suggestions/changes you should take note of.

What we would like to see in Ken for SSF4 are…

Top Priority
*There is no reason these should not be addressed

-Same walking speed as Ryu. I don’t think there is any reason to justify having him walk slow, and the step kick makes him move faster argument is pretty shallow.

-Fix the Fierce shoryu everyone about it is weird. It seems like the top of his head isn’t covered at all and loses to too many things if not done from a late crouched position, and even then it still loses. Its only value is that it can connect his full ultra if you AA a jump in then fadc ultra. Some characters get free jumps/dive kicks on Ken(Rufus/Akuma) in which they wouldn’t dare attempt on Ryu. Because his Fierce Shoryu just doesn’t work how its suppose to.

-A little bit more damage on “fake” ultra just a bit more. Still keep the full animation/full damage for AA Shoryu and counter hit fadc ultras

^^Not alot of stuff that seriously needs to be addressed. Kens pretty much fine, just his job is a bit tedious at times because of these things.

Medium Priority
*Ken should at the least have 2 of these changes.

-Ken and Ryu’s jab shoryu should be reversed, there is no reason Ryu’s recovers faster when its been the opposite since like Hyper Fighting.

-A Kick normal similar to his 3s S.Forward, or his Crazy kicks. This would help Ken AA better and catch people who hold up all the time,during jab strings. Would function similar to Bisons S.RH but with less priority and less damage of course.

-Ken being +2 after Ex Hurricane Kick combo instead of 1.

-A 5 frame sweep like Ryu, so Ken has 2 ways of reliable ways of getting a knockdown instead of 1(throw)

-1st hit of Shoryu knocks down regardless if the last hits don’t connect similar to his HDR incarnation. (Its pretty sad when you can’t use your best reversal move because the last hit might whiff leaving you to get punished severely)

Low Priority
*Ken doesn’t really need these but would enhance his character very well.

-C.fierce start up same as Ryus.

-Ex Shoryuken coming out in 3 frames instead of 5.(Ken needs every bit of damage he can get and being able to combo into his ex srk, without s.jabbing or 1 frame linking would be nice)

-Command overhead f+hk being +4 on hit(Able to link low forward after it hits, it’s currently -1 on hit)

-S.Rh start up of 12 decreased to 9.(This thing comes out slow as hell.)

-Target combo should work properly(I stopped using this in 08…)

With these things added, everything will just be peachy. :tup: http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs184.snc1/6128_235828680547_768555547_7898622_1647830_n.jpg

[MagnetoManiac]

ROFL @ the double thumbs up with the Ono assist. Nasty Ken adjustments there :tup:

[Aleri_XV]

I <3 Dr.Chaos

[Beikoku_Taichou]

I agree with most of these.

I’d also like to see all Shoryu hits knock down and juggle. This would prevent single hits with the strong shoryu resulting in you getting punished despite guessing right. It would also make his ultra easier to connect off of the fierce (in this case maybe the damage of the ultra would need to be toned down.)

I’d also like to see the trajectory of his super fixed. At the moment cancelling it off of the first or second hit of fierce shoryuken is the difference between full connection and going under your opponent. Maybe make the first shoryu more vertical and less horizontal… would 3 hops like 3S be asking for too much?

[RagingStormX]

Other people said make a new one and I’ve been playing Ken since 08 so…

Ken in SF4 is a character that has to put up with a lot of BS from certain characters. Even if that player is a not even 50% as good as you are, you still have to watch out because you can’t afford many mistakes playing this character Ken. Which isn’t to bad, but just to make our lives a little easier is a few suggestions/changes you should take note of.

What we would like to see in Ken for SSF4 are…

Top Priority
*There is no reason these should not be addressed

-Same walking speed as Ryu. I don’t think there is any reason to justify having him walk slow, and the step kick makes him move faster argument is pretty shallow.

-Fix the Fierce shoryu everyone about it is weird. It seems like the top of his head isn’t covered at all and loses to too many things if not done from a late crouched position, and even then it still loses. Its only value is that it can connect his full ultra if you AA a jump in then fadc ultra. Some characters get free jumps/dive kicks on Ken(Rufus/Akuma) in which they wouldn’t dare attempt on Ryu. Because his Fierce Shoryu just doesn’t work how its suppose to.

-A little bit more damage on “fake” ultra just a bit more. Still keep the full animation/full damage for AA Shoryu and counter hit fadc ultras

^^Not alot of stuff that seriously needs to be addressed. Kens pretty much fine, just his job is a bit tedious at times because of these things.

Medium Priority
*Ken should at the least have 2 of these changes.

-Ken and Ryu’s jab shoryu should be reversed, there is no reason Ryu’s recovers faster when its been the opposite since like Hyper Fighting.

-A Kick normal similar to his 3s S.Forward, or his Crazy kicks. This would help Ken AA better and catch people who hold up all the time,during jab strings. Would function similar to Bisons S.RH but with less priority and less damage of course.

-Ken being +2 after Ex Hurricane Kick combo instead of 1.

-A 5 frame sweep like Ryu, so Ken has 2 ways of reliable ways of getting a knockdown instead of 1(throw)

-1st hit of Shoryu knocks down regardless if the last hits don’t connect similar to his HDR incarnation. (Its pretty sad when you can’t use your best reversal move because the last hit might whiff leaving you to get punished severely)

Low Priority
*Ken doesn’t really need these but would enhance his character very well.

-C.fierce start up same as Ryus.

-Ex Shoryuken coming out in 3 frames instead of 5.(Ken needs every bit of damage he can get and being able to combo into his ex srk, without s.jabbing or 1 frame linking would be nice)

-Command overhead f+hk being +4 on hit(Able to link low forward after it hits, it’s currently -1 on hit)

-S.Rh start up of 12 decreased to 9.(This thing comes out slow as hell.)

-Target combo should work properly(I stopped using this in 08…)

With these things added, everything will just be peachy. :tup: http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs184.snc1/6128_235828680547_768555547_7898622_1647830_n.jpg

Yay smart people on SRK! Also I really like the idea of speeding up c.fp, that c.lp link to it is a bitch, but it will let him combo into tatsu on everyone

[System_1]

agree with all these changes the ones i think you forgot were +1on step kick and also ken focus attack is garbage i mean its slow i often try not to use it change animation to a straight kick or punch like gouki,dan,or ryus

[AznDreamer]

definitely agree on haircut . . . Ken needs to cut the crops lolz. Otherwise make him look a little better cuz he’s supposedly a playboy looking kinda guy??? So I’ve always thought . . .

[Gramas]

honestly speaking i disagree with some things

full ultra hurts and being able to connect it after an AA fierce shoryuken(superSF4 version like chaos suggest) is not fine,it should be tricky like it is now.

instead make his strong shoryu comes out in 3 frame and fadcable on the first hit for the partial ultra so you can use this as anti air fadc ultra like ryu does but not being able to do this on combo(because we all know what happens when you try to combo strong shoryu haha)

Of course buff a bit the partial ultra(60-70dmg)

why the fuck ken fierce shoryuken does less damage than the ryu’s one?

also on top priority: 1 frame faster forward dash

the rest chaos mentioned is ok,especialy the jab shoryuken.

i would love the kick normal ala 3s for the ppl who hold up

[MagnetoManiac]

full ultra hurts and being able to connect it after an AA fierce shoryuken(superSF4 version like chaos suggest) is not fine,it should be tricky like it is now.

i

[media=youtube]jTvPnAlMhBI#t=5m30s[/media]

[media=youtube]juZ2H3LXCjQ[/media]

[Dr.Chaos]

agree with all these changes the ones i think you forgot were +1on step kick and also ken focus attack is garbage i mean its slow i often try not to use it change animation to a straight kick or punch like gouki,dan,or ryus

Maybe 0 for step kick i think +1 maybe a bit too much(I could be wrong though)

His focus comes out a bit slow buts its actually really good, well the Kara focus is, I tend to use it alot to fish for level 1 counter hits and back dash(works good against Honda). If it does connect you can just dash up otg shoryu fadc ultra. Its the same way Ryu and Akuma fish for counter hits safely by back dashing then ultra.

But it could probably be a bit faster.

[Gramas]

[media=youtube]jTvPnAlMhBI#t=5m30s[/media]

[media=youtube]juZ2H3LXCjQ[/media]

Check ALL the japaese ken videos on nicovideo/youtube and you will never see that.prolly you have already seen all of those video

I do that on my own but its something that IS NOT reliable

What the fuck are you trying to say?That a bugged shoryu is reliabe?

[Sosage]

Merged both Ken threads together. Better than having to be put in the middle of two good threads and being forced to choose one to close.

[MagnetoManiac]

Merged both Ken threads together. Better than having to be put in the middle of two good threads and being forced to choose one to close.

Damn, you mixed the real thread in with the scrub one :/.

Check ALL the japaese ken videos on nicovideo/youtube and you will never see that

I do that on my own but its something that IS NOT reliable

What the fuck are you trying to say?

Hey shutup scrub it’s reliable and effective as proven…and you should be thankful for learning something.

[idi0t]

-make his ultra FULLY connect after FADC
-make his air EX tatsu juggle after hit
-make all his srk have better priority (like akuma and ryu)
-faster walk
-+2 frame with ground ex tatsu on hit
-less startup on ultra

(maybe sa3 from 3rd strike as his super? prolly might make him kinda broken or not cuz ull only have one bar in a fight)

[Gramas]

Hey shutup scrub it’s reliable and effective as proven and you should be thankful for learning something.

So just dont fix the fierce shoryu coz is reliable

lmao fail at basic logic