Max sounds like a fine choice of candidate to help get the ball rolling on this, especially considering all of the things he’s done for the FGC thus far. He’s great at public announcements and he already has a very respectable following from both the competitive and casual communities, so getting in contact with him may be in the cards if we want to successfully get our voices heard by Capcom over this whole matter.
What would be the best way of contacting him, in that case?
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I guess I should just throw my two cents in on how I think the nerfs should go down while I’m at it. I tried my best to tone these guys down in ways that they’re not quite as overbearing, but can still play the game the way they want to play it. Letting characters keep their playstyle but slightly decreasing the overall effectiveness of them without mangling their chances in a competitive setting seems like the best way to handle nerfs in this game, so I did just that.
[details=Spoiler]Zero:
Minimum scaling on Normals: 20% -> 15%
Minimum scaling on Specials: 30% -> 25%
Lightning no longer soft knockdown, is now affected by HSD, but still has a decent amount of hitstun right at the start of a combo
Rekkoha is now a mashable Hyper
Vergil:
Helm Breaker -2 on block, no longer cancellable into S, Special moves, or Hypers on hit or block
Rapid Slash startup increased by 3 frames, has a noticeably different startup animation from Judgment Cut
Spiral Swords projectile durability decreased, wears off much more quickly vs block, same duration vs hit or whiff
X-Factor speed boost reduced from 15%/20%/25% to 0%/5%/10%
X-Factor duration reduced from 11.5s/16.5s/21.5s to 9.5s/14.5s/19.5s
= H Teleport: same startup animation as L Teleport
All 6 swords of Sword Storm combo properly vs floored, standing, and airborne opponents
Startup on Judgment Cut assist decreased
Morrigan:
Dark Harmonizer assist ending lag increased somewhat
Soul Fist and Soul Drain damage: 85,000 -> 75,000
Soul Fists and Soul Drains fired from Astral Vision copy disappear if Morrigan is hit
Air S hitbox adjusted so dashing under Morrigan is possible at sufficient heights
Doctor Doom:
Ground Bounce property on air S removed and Hard Knockdown time adjusted so that comboing is not possible without a dash cancel
Hidden Missiles assist properties adjusted, Doom throws 4 missiles at the fastest possible speed(startup and endlag of this assist are unchanged), missiles disappear if Doom is hit
= Hidden Missiles on point are unaffected
Magneto:
Magnetic Blast has more ending lag frames/some landing lag frames if interrupted by landing, not by so much that Magneto can no longer apply pressure, but enough so he can’t river dance on you for 5 years if blocked
Force Field assist invincible on startup
Spencer:
Reel in Punch followup from H Wire Grapple and first hit of Bionic Manuevers lose their unscaled damage properties
Reel in Punch followup from H Wire Grapple base damage increased from 80,000 to 120,000
Minimum scaling on Specials: 10% -> 20%[/details]
Worth mentioning, if I were to propose a full changelog for the whole cast, these would be the ONLY nerfs you would see on the full list. Everyone else would either be buffed or receive no changes in my book, so we can keep the game as crazy and exciting as it was meant to be.
I guess it also depends on the system-wide changes as well, especially what they do with damage values. Because if other point characters can still TOD i think Zero should still be allowed to. But if 2 - 3 touches becomes the norm for a kill then yeah, I think that Zero will still be strong in that environment. Actually… he might become even more top tier if 2+ touches was the norm, because his resets are so much better than other point characters.
as for characters that I play, here’s what I think would be fair for Dr. Strange…
Buffs:
Let him block after an air Eye or air M Daggers. Still not allowed to perform any actions, but air blocking should be allowed after those moves (but not SoV obviously)
Slightly increase speed / distance on his ground dash. If Vergil whiffs an H or something in front of him, it’s only fair he’d be able to dash up and punish that
Find a way to prevent Strange from being punished for an air SoV on HIT. This current situation is bullsh*t: Strange and Doom are both in the corner and both at superjump height. If Strange lands a clean SoV, Doom can still punish him with a footdive on the way down.
Decrease recovery of Illusion (back + H) teleport counter so he can actually get a punish for pulling it off. Illusion is a pretty big gamble, but it’s too slow to punish most normal attacks. It only works because the opponent is caught off guard.
Remove useless Daggers assist and replace it with Flames of Faltine. It’ll be kinda like Dorm’s Liberation assist: really weak on its own, but if you put some Grace’s out while Strange was on point, then tag him out and call his FoF assist it will use the Grace powerups.
Nerfs:
Take away the ability to land repeated SoV’s on an assist character. Currently, if he gets a happy b-day and the point character dies first, he can just keep firing off SoV’s until the assist is dead too. That’s kinda B.S.
On the 1st bolt of BoB assist, take away the stagger / float hitstun, and on the 2nd bolt reduce the hitstun slightly. That way, you’ll have to hit-confirm faster. Right now, you can just sit there and watch both bolts hit, then run up and start a combo. It gives you about the same amount of time as drones, which is kinda silly for a beam assist with pretty fast startup.
Players controlling a dead character should be able to decide which side of the screen their next character will come into play.
Dashes are cancelable into dashes for all but Hulk, Doctor Doom, Dormammu, Arthur and Morrigan since they cannot dash to remove the skill cap for plink dashing.
Make it so holding down/back and pushing 2 buttons to dash results in a forward dash instead of a back dash to help hold a charge while dashing. (So Shuma Gorath can plink dash while holding a charge.)
Grabs have 4 extra frames of being techable.
TAC breaking leaves the attempter in a spinning falling state that ends in a hard knock down.
All assists are vulnerable after performing they’re action for at least 10 frames or the duration of they’re taunt before exiting.
Thor
Crouching L starts up in 6 frames.
Mighty Thunder pushes opponent back on block exactly like Magneto’s Magnetic Shockwave super.
S starts up in 8 frames.
10,000 Damage reduction on all normals except Crouching M.
X-Factor LV1,Lv2,Lv3 Damage changed to 120%, 140%, 160% Speed changed to 120%, 130%, 140%.
Hulk:
X-Factor LV1,Lv2,Lv3 Damage changed to 120%, 140%, 160% Speed changed to 120%, 130%, 140%.
Speed increases the lower his health is.
She-Hulk:
Crouching H travels farther.
Clothesline hits Overhead.
Heavy Strike L Starts up in 1 frame but it’s range is reduced.
Greeting Punch Start up reduced to 20 frames.
Taskmaster:
X-Factor LV1,Lv2,Lv3 Damage changed to 130%, 150%, 170% Speed changed to 110%, 120%, 130%.
Health reduction to 1,000,000.
Captain America
Crouching L start up increased to 6 frames.
X-Factor LV1,Lv2,Lv3 damage changed to 120%, 140%, 160% Speed changed to 120%, 130%, 140%.
Doctor doom:
Hidden Missiles vanish when he is hit, whether he’s a assist or in play.
Forward dash is attack cancelable.
Air S and air forward H lose 10,000 damage.
Air H now flight and special cancelable.
Maximum damage scaling reduced for all his normals.
Photon shot L, M and H are usable only once per jump even if flying but deals 60,000 per shot.
Crouching L no longer chains into itself.
Dormammu:
Purification recovery increased from 11 to 21.
Increase hit box for crouching M to hit crouching opponents.
Retain air options after air Dark Hole and Dark Spell but can only use it once per jump even if flying.
Purification assist tracks opponents location.
GhostRider:
Air H hits up to 3 times, cancelable into S and it’s hit box and active frames increased to make it easier to hit Down/right of him.
L, M, H chains into one another.
Heartless Spire start-up be changed to 24 frames last for 120 frames, disappears on hit and can’t be used until the first vanishes.
Judgment strike hit full screen, reduce it’s push back on block.
Iron Fist:
Increase hit box on S to hit non-standing opponents.
Add Double jump like Captain America.
Falls faster after an air grab to make otg after easier.
Iron Rage super invincible frames increased to 23 frames.
Super Skrull:
Inferno recovers 16 frames slower but now does a hard knock down on the last hit.
Standing H no longer cancelable.
Stone smite assist start up is 8 frames sooner.
Iron-Man:
S Moves him closer to opponent to make it easier to land.
Instant acceleration during down/forward air dash.
Crouching L and M start-up increased to 6 and 8 frames respectfully.
Rhino charge invulnerable on start up but damage is reduced to 220,000.
Crouching L starts up on frame 6.
Morrigan:
Astral Vision no longer gains meter.
Air S has 11 frame start-up.
Unfly takes 1 extra frame.
Soul fist has 3 priority low priority points.
Add invincible start-up Shadow Blade assist.
Standing L start up changed to 6 frames.
Viewtiful Joe:
Voomerang damage reduced to 50,000.
Air Voomerang start up reduced to 10 frames.
Crouching L start up changed to 6 frames and no longer chains into itself.
C. Viper:
Seismic Hammer can cancel into itself.
Increase range of her ground normals.
Unblockable causes a 30 percent damage reduction to all attacks that combo after it.
Optic Laser jump cancelable and give her a crouching version.
Increase upward hit box of first hit of Burst Time.
Crouching M OTG’s.
Dante:
Stinger special-move cancelable.
Increase hit-stun on standing L to make it combo into Standing M on air opponents slightly above him.
Jumping S no longer hit’s Over-Head and is Air Trick cancelable.
Drive Starts up in 20 frames.
Jam session loses 70% of its knockback on block.
Killer bee OTG’s.
Jet Stream can be canceled into Air Trick.
Multi-Lock is Special Cancelable during recovery.
Throws now leave opponent in a hard knockdowned state.
Hsien-Ko:
Double her walk and back away ground speed.
Increase range on her dash teleport by 50 percent.
Henkyo H Lasts 300 frames she destroys the first when she uses it again.
Increase hit box on S to hit more in front of her.
Increase Air S hit box to hit more in front of her.
Add 10,000 Damage to all her normals.
Crouching M OTG’s.
Standing H and air H does Chip damage.
Bonsai Tree and Gold Star stun for 240 frames.
Anki-Hou thrown Meat adds poison state.
All thrown items damage increase to 80,000.
Health increased to 1,000,000
Pendulum cancelable into Air L,M,H.
Felicia:
Health increase to 950,000.
Crouching L start up increased to 6 frames.
Arthur:
Double walk and back away speed.
Heavenly Slash assist is invincible on start up as a assist but is hittable while taunting.
Chun-Li:
Health Increase to 950,000.
All Kikoken versions travel full screen.
Increase downward hit box of jumping S and increase its active frames to 12 frames.
S advantage if guarded changed to -1.
Increase minimal Damage scaling on Hyakuretsukyaku to 5000 per hit.
Crouching M OTG’s.
FireBrand:
Health increase to 900,000.
Unblockable scales all combo damage after by 30 percent.
Crouching L no longer chains into itself and starts up in 6 frames.
10,000 damage increase to all normals.
No longer gains meter during Luminous Body unless it gets 20 frames of uncancelable start-up.
Jill
Health increase to 950,000.
Low sweep, Jumping roundhouse, Somersault Kick loses all recovery and returns to feral state on hit or block while maintaining Somersault Kick jump cancel ability.
Double Knee Drop all versions start-up reduced by 10 frames.
Fallen Prey deals 300,000 Damage before damage scaling.
Has her own versions of Chris’ Gun Fire M and/or deadpool’s Happy-Happy trigger super in air and ground.
Trish:
Health increase to 900,000.
Trick(Hopscotch) and (Peekaboo) can’t be used while one is in play.
Crouching L and Standing L no longer chainable into itself and start up changed to 6 frames.
Vergil:
X-Factor LV1, LV2, LV3 Damage Bonus reduced to 110%, 120%, 130% Speed increased to 130%, 150%, 170% respectfully.
Rapid Slash Start-up changed to 40 frames.
Trick start-up changed to 21 frames.
Trick down and trick up start-up changed to 23 frames.
Crouching L start up changed to 6 frames.
Zero:
All zero’s projectiles have 1 priority point.
Air H no longer over-head.
Reduce health to 800,000.
Reduce maximum damage scaling for Raikousen from 7,500 per hit to 3,000 per hit.
Sentsuizan H max damage scaling reduced from 24,000 to 12,000.
Reduce maximum damage from hyper Zero Blaster level 3 from 12,000 to 6,000.
Crouching L start up increased to 6 frames.
Amaterasu:
Health Raised to 900,000.
All Devout Bead attacks should chain into each other and be chainable from L and M standing or crouching.
Solar Flare assist comes out in front of point character and gains start-up invulnerability, start-up decreased from 31 frames to 10 and is active for 40 frames.
Bloom assist recovery reduced by 70 frames.
Crouching L no longer chainable.
Akuma:
Health increase to 900,000.
Increase Raging Demon Damage changed to 600,000 after maximum mashing.
Tatsumaki Zankukyaku M recovery changed to 15 frames.
Increase hit box for Tenmakujinkyaku.
Reduce start up of Senpukyaku to 10 frames.
Strider:
Health increase to 800,000.
Formation B Start up reduced to 7 frames.
All versions of gram start up 5 frames sooner.
Ouroboros and it’s projectiles do chip damage.
Increase hit box on S but add recovery.
Excalibur M cancelable by Air L,M,H,S or double jump.
I don’t count TvC is because its not part of the Real Marvel vs Series, and thus voided. Yeah, they used the trashy TvC system within MvC3, however it doesn’t remove what I said that in the Marvel vs Series lineup, the last great Ryu was MSHvsSF w/ XvsSF being his all time best.
You mean a character who could hit like tank (but so could the best characters), however was cut down from less then half the speed of his MSHvsSF counterpart and had some of the worst recoveries in the game. Would you pick him over GWM? WM? Wolverine? Strider? Red Venom? That game was played by like 5 characters during the prime of its life, and Ryu was not one of them.
Thank You. Considering we haven’t seen any strong Ryu useage in Marvel vs Series in forever. I’m tired of having him being a playable character, however not as a viable pick. Capcom needs to put some effort into making him strong so that he will actually have his face shown at high level competition (RayRay being the only player isn’t enough, sorry). Right now the thoughts of ever seeing a Team that had Ryu in it winning a Major Marvel Tournament with any consistency is like saying that Justin Wong is a Great Driver (seriously, J-Wong is a beast in fighting games, but his driving is terrifying).
You are insane if you think beads are useless with ammy
The j.h that has an insane hitbox is fucking special c. and jc
You can easily convert from it at any height into an xf. 1 slow infinite or xf2 xf3 infinite or launch into a tac infinite
Beads are an amazing tool.
Problem: Collecting evidence is too risky for Wright.
Solutions:
Maya Shield stays out longer and can take more damage.
Chance of bad evidence significantly reduced (removal seems a bit much).
Meat heals more (what “more” should mean is debatable).
Problem: Wright’s zoning tools aren’t terribly effective.
Solutions:
Paperwork always comes out if not interrupted in first few frames (think Dorm spells).
Increase durability on Paperwork (?)
Paperwork Storm lasts as long as Paperwork
Problem: Turnabout Mode has too much risk for too little reward
Solutions:
Give “Bridge to the Turnabout” and “Objection” armor (?)
Give Air “Bridge to the Turnabout” and Air “Objection” soft knockdown.
Make cr.:h: a low in Turnabout.
Increase Turnabout time to 30 real seconds.
Other stuffs:
Make Get’em Missile a move, not just an assist. (Consider preventing meterless unblockable set-ups.)
Reduce recovery on Maya!? to same as evidence recovery (I don’t want to have to plink, and potentially have to throw something good, to follow up after Maya /:h:.)
most of you guys aren’t even attempting to be reasonable.
“I don’t like TAC infinites, carry over all hitstun from the initial combo and give the defender a full combo. In other words, remove TAC from the game.”
“I don’t like Vergil. Make Rapid Slash, Helm Breaker, Spiral Swords, or any other distinctive trait he has terrible. In other words, remove Vergil from the game. Leave far better characters like Zero alone because I like anime.”
Felicia
Good character, she just needs more tools to mixup or deal more damage.
-Health: 880,000 -> 900,000
-Increase hitstun on Toy Touch OTG
-Increase hitstun on Rolling Buckler (all extentions should be able to connect at earliest input regardless of combo length)
-Air Delta Kick works properly when hitting assists
-Reduce charge time on Sand Splash
-Cat Spike M is an overhead (assist too)
-Cat Spike H causes hard knockdown + ground bounce (ala lunar phase) or gives a forced ground bounce
-Please Help Me! is XFC-capable (once canceled the projectile has no hitbox)
-Please Help Me! activation change: Hold L to have the helper run/slide a short distance along the bottom of the screen (hits low)
-Kitty’s Helper recovery reduced from 20 frames -> 10 frames
-Kitty’s Helper activation change: Hold L helper enters from left, Hold M helper starts at or slightly behind Felicia’s position, Hold H helper enters from right
-Cat & Mouse can be performed as an extension to Rolling Buckler
-Cat & Mouse distance traveled and is based on strength of ATK + S, shorter distances are faster overall
-ES Versions of all special moves (extra damage and new properties)
-Hyper Sand Splash (Level 1; OTG-capable and mashable;THC super when using Sand Splash assist)
Man, after seeing some of these lists capcom has done such a great job with this game. No seriously. Don’t come to this thread capcom lawdhamercy. Capcom plz stay away…
Now to kill time:
Character switch possible during THC by holding down assist button.
Two button throws
Assists retain on point properties.
I thought my nerf changelist was firm but fair… Tried my very best to keep all of the characters’ playstyles intact all the while having them be either less derp or less safe, but only slightly and still be quite threatening characters in the end…
T___T
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Also, on this:
We really should start to get to work on publicizing our support towards a patch. We should be discussing other ideas toward that end or responses to the above quoted in order to get the word out. Remember that our goal is to let Capcom know that we want a patch, and not what’s in our over 9000 changelogs. This is our first step to take, for sure.
So… what’chu guys got? Should we contact Max? Anyone else? Are there other means to go about as well, such as petition sites? Let’s brainstorm a bit.
Neogaf dudes wanna give Shuma an 8-way airdash, and some of those guys want him to be able to dash 3 times. That’s on top of increasing the hitbox on Mystic Smash drastically, basically turning it into Footdive 2.0.
So Wright comes out, stays out there for hella long with his long ass recovery animation doing nothing productive. Meanwhile, Maya Shield gets broken, opponent tags point character, catches Wright still being surprised, Happy birthday. Not saying it’s a bad idea, but it would be probably even less effective than MODOK shield. Also, which assist do you wanna drop? Personally, I would drop Paperwork.
As for publicity, Max is probably a good choice if we’re looking at audience size. Just remember which audience we’re getting.
Whenever I see a list detailing changes for nearly the entire cast, I disregard it, because I highly doubt you are making educated statements on what changes are best/needed/beneficial for each and every character. Other than that, I feel like people should really limit their changes to the characters they consider themselves specialized in, so that you can actually put in an argument that isn’t only on a spectator perspective.
Has to have some con, Maya shield has great duration. Although you can’t break MODOKS shield it doesn’t last nearly as long. Plus it no longer has that stand inside me property that Mayas shield does. If you stand inside MODOKS shield you’ll get hit.
Despair, I stopped reading at the Haggar section. That is the WORST possible list of changes for Haggar.
-That’s the point of the move. It is already too slow to be an anti-air. Making it slower makes it pointless.
-What? The whole point of playing Haggar is to slowly work your way in. He does NOT need Iron Fist’s dash.
-What? NO! Pipe is his most iconic move and is already a sub-optimal hit confirm unless you run a select pool of assists. If you nerf the range, it will have no real value.
-Why? Has anyone ever seriously said “Haggar has too much health?” If you have, you clearly have no idea how to fight Haggar.
-Removing some damage for a speed boost? Doesn’t fix the issues he has getting in on legit zoners. Damage nerf is okay because you are probably going to give him a cr.H loop with that speed boost.
THIS is how to balance Haggar:
Spoiler
-People don’t fall out of RFF. However, make the last hit behave like Pipe and not always cause a ground bounce to compensate.
-Make headbutt behave like Pipe on air counterhit
-Can cancel cr.H into Pipe on whiff
-Reduce start-up on all versions of Violent Axe by 5 frames
-Violent Axe ignores advancing guard
-Haggar can block and gets 1 air action after a whiffed Hoodlum Launcher H
-Giant Haggar press is invincible for the first 20 frames of start-up
It only has 250K health (Maya Shield) AND takes unscaled damage AND (most importantly) ruins your perfect. Not easy to break, but nowhere near hard. That said, if you’re not looking for evidence behind it (Kappa), it probably would be a strong neutral tool, especially since it would come out even if Wright got hit.
/:h:.)