At the end of the day I will choose who I choose and be proud of my team, regardless of what people say. This game doesn’t rely on character choices, it focuses directly on decision making and tactics. As people always say, wait until someone finds out how good another character can be, which has been highlighted frequently in recent tourneys with Dieminion’s Morrigan.
tiers!
Spoiler
S: Dormammu, Viper, Zero, Dante, Strider, Firebrand, Wesker,
A+: Phoenix, Vergil, Hawkeye, Doom, Trish, Magneto
A: Spencer, Taskmaster, Felicia, Nova, Strange, Akuma, Wolverine, Amaterasu,
B+: Super Skrull, Jill, Deadpool, Storm, MODOK, Frank, Captain America, Morrigan, Sentinel, Nemesis, Viewtiful Joe,
B: X-23, Thor, Ryu, Rocket Raccoon, Hulk, Iron Fist, Chris, Haggar, Iron Man, Spider-Man
C+: Ghost Rider,
C: Chun-Li, Shuma-Gorath, She-Hulk
D: Arthur, Tron, Hsien-Ko, Phoenix Wright
With the exception of the very top tier characters and the very bottom tier characters there is a very small difference between most of these tiers, and I used A+ and B+ tiers deliberately to illustrate this. A character in B tier is on mostly the same level as a character in B+ (and the same goes for A/A+ and C/C+) except a character in the + tier has at least one of these traits:
-provides a unique assist or DHC to one of the better characters that makes them even better that no other character can provide (e.g. Spitfire and Drones are similar, but Drones are significantly better so Sentinel gets the bump to B+).
-has an advantageous matchup against at least one of the relevant top tiers in the current meta or multiple even matchups with them.
-has ridiculous XF3 comeback potential
-The S tiers shutdown most of the cast below them and have no more than 1 disadvantageous matchup outside of the other S tiers.
-The D tiers are shutdown by almost all of the S tiers and several more cast members and are not viable.
-The A tiers are tournament-winning quality without needing to build a team around them.
-B tiers are viable and can be tournament winners by backing them with better characters and/or building a team around them.
-The C tiers are viable only if you build a team entirely around them to both reduce their weaknesses and emphasize their strengths.
-The characters within each tier are in order from best to worst but the difference is very negligible. Most of the time it came down to how versatile the character is in each slot on the team.
I’m kinda surprised some people are putting shuma as high as B+ tier. He has a lot of hidden potential similar to modok, but I don’t see him ever being that high as long as he can still be thrown out of all of his air movement during both startup and active frames. He has some interesting properties on his backdash though that I’ve been playing around with. His backdash actually has frames of flat out invincibility, so if you plink his back dash, you get some interesting results.
this is one of the scrubbiest posts i’ve ever seen. who seriously uses the word “tier-whoring” on a site dedicated to competitive fighting games?
avarice you forgot doctor strange
So we’ve turned legitimate tier/balance discussion into a popularity contest, where instead of discussing new ideas and viewpoints (not like many people are willing to consider said differing views), we just disregard the opinions of anyone that isn’t popular?
…Oy.
Calm down. We did it this way to add a little structure to the thread… you know how hard it would be to account for every opinion to ever come into this thread into a list? We just want something up on the front page so people can come by and look at the original post to have something to go off of when coming into the thread.
No one is disregarding anyones opinons.
Is this supposed to be the new tier list thread?
Well, the old one is no longer stickied and this one is stickied, and you’re the big fat egg head thing, so I’ll just let you…
[details=Spoiler]
ANALYZE CUBE THAT
Please
Chill, Your views are just as imporant as anybody else here.
You disagree like anybody else just like how Chrisis disagreed with MoTempest.
Chrisis, keep in mind I am a Viper player and am not saying she is bad or even that she’s not really good by any stretch. I wouldn’t play her if she was. Simply that she is not S tier. I know what she can or “could” do, trust me. I am speaking as if I was the opposition and I had a clue on how to stop Viper. I don’t know how many NorCal guys lose to lack of knowledge when it comes to Viper, but against knowledgeable top players they don’t. My training partners consist of some of SoCals best, and those select few know the matchup. It’s not about mixing it up better when your opponent know’s your characters holes. If you think that she has none, you are trapped in theory.
Unless of course you got baited… and successfully burned a meter to gain gasp frame advantage. Yesss, you sure showed him. You’re safe and may be able to turn the tides of momentum in your favor. In my book if they blocked you lost that little exchange. Getting baited to use the best option available to you doesn’t mean you’re doing it wrong, it’s a part of the game. I’m coming at you with momentum at about mid-range from the air with an assist covering the horizontal space on the ground and you don’t want to get hit by some random shit and DIE in the process…you’re going to EX seismo as a get out of jail card if you are doing anything that might be risky. Or you’re absorbing hits into focus attack back into an EX seismo or a dash (if you can without getting hit out of startup). Lets not act like those tools both aren’t expensive card to play. You could block, but everybody can block…that doesn’t add anything to the argument of her being S tier.
About the Far range matter, ok… force people into what BS exactly? You have a few intelligent options from a long range seismo. To hit confirm off a seismo or a laser from far range into combo regardless of the assist requires very specific things to go in your favor not to mention the fact that you pretty much need to know that it’s going to hit before it does which isn’t confirming at all. Namely your assist (which must be specific), your positioning and timing with that assist, character height and again… lack of randomness on the screen. If you shot a laser specifically to destroy said randomness you were more than likely reacting to an assist, not the point which means you are not going to confirm to combo the point character unless they sat there and took the shot like an idiot…like laser isn’t telegraphed by the fact that her eyes are glowing and its startup isn’t 20+ frames. Unless there is some new technology I don’t know about that lets you cancel the recovering frames of laser into something else that would actually hit at far or even semi far range :/.
You can combo off H. Seismo without assist. Confirm into a combo? No. And once again…specific. Midrange she has options in TK BK but those aren’t as reliable to combo off of as Vanilla in my experience because of the property change in tiger knee burn kicks as to stop infinities. It definitely feels like Tiger Knee H BK has significantly less frame advantage that it did in Vanilla…though it’s still probably her best blind option. Still good though…but that’s not my argument. I’m the one who discovered FA canceling, so I know how strong her defensive tools are. Realistically they’re only as good as your opponent not knowing about them or respecting them. As for your last sentence, it should be when you succeeding nets varied results and you missing the input results in death. Again if you could truly confirm a seismo hit without being presumptuous of its success or miss, you would be 100% right in this being a very good strategy…but you can’t so it’s not. Frame advantage is only as good as your ability to capitalize on it.
Agreed on the better set of tools to deal with coming in. But I don’t like it being that she has terrible health and her upwards dash is hella floaty even if you cancel into BK feint. You have mad time to set her up upon descent. Double Jump is good though. As for DHCing into Viper…I don’t like that shit either and gotta disagree with leaving her in a position to be “most powerful”. Emergency combination in this situation might as well be a command grab with the risk involved unless their ass is planted on the ground and in position to get hit clean…which is unlikely in marvel.
As for “one of the best cross counters”, I assume you’re talking a H TK into feint…which is an ass assist compared to her others. Very rarely is it smart to pick that assist over her others unless it’s solely for that reason. Only reason I can think of is because she uses Emergency combination for Team Hypers… shrug. As for DHCing out into other characters, I don’t see a problem with your statement. Invincible Hypers from frame 1 are always a good thing…
Agreed, that’s pretty much my thought. But like I said…much better anchors. This is an argument for “S tier” not good.
You and I both know this works better in theory than in practice. Seismo’s durability might be high but its area’s of effectiveness is not so good hitbox wise not to mention it requires an opponent to be standing at 3 very specific ranges if your goal is to hit and not just intimidate. Again, you hit…now what. If you combo’d you guessed your ass off or the opponent was doing some shit he had no business doing. It only takes getting hit by (1) seismo to remind you that its there and respect it. Good players aren’t getting “controlled” by vipers ground game in practice…and its not from lack of ability, its because their are gaping holes in it, regardless if you care to acknowledge them or not. I’m not even gonna talk about laser. As far as beams go…it’s ass. Why? Most telegraphed situational beam in marvel history. It clears only to reset the situation…again, unless your opponent is a retard.
As far as me being a male/female, I sure hope that wasn’t a stab young man. Pay attention. I’m pretty sure I placed higher than you at SCR and have been around for a long time. I know what i’m talking about. There are at least 5 characters better in the game that is Marvel vs. Capcom 3, with all of it’s bullshit, that are better than her…but she’s damn good.
For what it’s worth…
[details=Spoiler]Tier List
S: Zero, Wesker
A+: Dante, Phoenix, C. Viper, Amateratsu, Nova, Doctor Doom, Dormammu, Trish, Vergil, Hawkeye, Wolverine, Magneto, Strider Hiryu
A: Felicia, Morrigan, Taskmaster, Spencer, Deadpool, Jill, Frank West, Firebrand, Storm, X-23, Dr. Strange, MODOK, Spider-Man
B+: Chris, Ryu, Captain America, Hulk, Super-Skrull, Nemesis, Rocket Raccoon, Thor, Ghost Rider, Chun-Li, Viewtiful Joe, Haggar, Iron-Man, Sentinel, She-Hulk
B: Shuma-Gorath, Arthur, Tron, PW, Hsien-Ko[/details]
Chrisis is pretty much the nicest guy ever, so I can vouch for him and say it wasnt a stab.
Anyways my main question is where do you think MODOK and Strange rank in this game… as we dont get too many opinions on those 2 characters and they are 2 of your mains.
How many times do we have to link the S-Kill article D:
Godlike gif. Will be stolen. You are my hero.
Why is Hawkeye so low in many tier lists? That is something that just makes me go huh?
Doesn’t make much sense when he has some of the best matchups.
Well since you guys are mainly dealing with S & A’s right now. I’ll post why these characters I think are B+ B and B-
B+: Akuma, Skrull, Taskmaster, Sentinel, Frank West, Nova, Chris Redfield, Captain America.
B: Ryu, M.O.D.O.K, Spider-man, Haggar, Viewtiful Joe, Rocket Raccoon, Nemesis, Thor, Shuma-Gorath, Hulk, Storm
B-: Arthur, Iron Fist,
Akuma: Still solid on point, great damage, great ground approach, but short normals, very low health, and a lack of aerial maneuverability are his downfalls.
Skrull: Great damage, but it seems like Skrull has some trouble under heavy pressure. Also his actions must be precise most of the time or he’s easily punished.
Taskmaster: All around solid character, good damage, good zoning, good reaching normals, and can actually put great pressure when partnered with an assist.
Problem is that he cracks under corner pressure from what I’ve seen.
Sentinel: Everyone’s favorite iron giant, Great damage but his low health, his obvious and predictable moveset are usually taken advantage of by opponents. Still scary with X-factor but Sentinel looks like he’s a better middle man than he is anchor nowadays. Cracks under pressure like most of the B-Tier but Tiger Knee Hard Drive is his saving grace.
Frank: Frank has all the tools of top tier character but he has to actually unlock them through leveling up and this is sometimes impossible if the opponent is applying heavy pressure. Frank’s moveset is predictable in it’s early stages and that is often taken advantage of by opponents. The slide is one of his best moves, but a move that everyone knows he has.
Nova: Hits like a grown ass man (lol shoutout to the nova forum), but his normals are somewhat slow which faster characters can take advantage of. Also from what i’ve seen Nova can’t handle teleporters very well.
B:
Shuma-Gorath: A very unorthodox character who uses double jump feints, Delta kick ruses, instant overheads, Cr.L punishes, Foot Dive knockoffs, and absurdly ranged normals, to mount an offensive. The squid relies on trickery and hard to guess blocks to get in; and in plenty of cases he does. But sadly he has trouble emphasizing on damage. His low damage output (he can go only about 415k without using meter) keeps him out of the upper mid-tier. But also Mr.Gorath is perhaps the only character who is considerably worse in X-factor so he can’t anchor. Shuma sits in the B Tier because his sucker punch shenanigans are effective, but in the end it’s about solid damage.
Nemesis: The saying goes, all it takes is one blow and Nemesis is the embodiment of that phrase. Nemesis can Touch of Death nearly any character in the game IF he can actually get a hit. Strangely, Nemesis’ bullshit move is his command grab and Ghost Rider Chain-like tentacle attack. That being said those won’t work under pressure but when Nemesis is in control of the match the opponent should be scared. Nemesis requires much assistwork though, almost dangerously so, and teams who are well equipped with characters to counter assists could potentially be trouble. Nemesis sits in the B Tier because the player has an upward battle most of the time to land that first hit.
M.O.D.O.K - In my book MODOK is a Heavyweight Glass Cannon (similar to Sentinel). He’s big, bulky, and packs a punch with his slow normals and cube combos. But he suffers from the typical downfalls of a heavy character. Even more so due to the lack of a useable low attack. MODOK is countered hard by characters such as X-23 and Wolvie but he can avoid those situations part of the time with his god-tier flight ability. Also his very predictable approach weakens his game somewhat. MODOK sits comfortably in the B Tier because he hits hard, zone’s well, but has the defensive ability of a glass vase if under rushdown pressure.
Rocket Raccoon - He has every tool imaginable, but his damage output makes Shuma-Gorath look like the hulk. Rocket Raccoon has an astounding mix-up game but he dies in literally one easy bnb combo. That being said, if a Rocket Raccoon player knows the character well then the opponent is in for a world of trouble.Also Rocket’s long range zoning ability isn’t quite up to level with the rest of the zoners of the cast, and his traps are more easily avoidable than his rival (Trish). But that doesn’t make him a useless zoner per say, it just means that tricky rushdown is more his aptitude. But even then, characters with long ranged normals are the bane of RR. Rocket is in the B-tier because he has an effective zoning game against anyone who can’t zone, he can rushdown against anyone who can’t rushdown, but it seems like the “mobile grown ass men club” (Ryu,Akuma,Cap,Nova,Wesker,Spencer,Skrull,Taskmaster,Frank,) give him some trouble because of their moderately fast normals and damage output.
Just a couple of my thoughts
I see him in A or A- in most. Wouldnt really consider that low.
He needs to be in A+ to S- just due to how many good matchups he possess, and due to how great of a team player he is. Great assist, great DHC option.Can deal damage as well due to the unscaled damage of poison tip.
Not to mention gimlet that makes people scared to move.