It’s in his favour if he has Strider.
XF3 Wesker still loses to trish
You’re such a meanie.
I just took the list based on what people said in the last thread. If you didn’t win the popularity contest at the time then it’s just kinda on my discretion at that point. I know you have some good stuff so if you spoiler up your tier list I’ll put it up.
Fixel’d
Switch places with me, and so you could make a tier list.
I’m too lazy, and inexperience to make one…
You think that Wesker with Strider beats Trish + missiles and Trish + jam session? Doesn’t she get safe Strider kills off of that with high voltage and the like?
I made the list of users who I think should add to the consensus list last night when I was very tipsy and pretty tired. I knew I was going to forget at least a couple notable people and you are one of them so my apologies. I definitely think you should post your list.
Can we put or tier list even though we are not on the list?
Also, once those specific posters put their lists, how are you going to round it up Jin?
Trish beats wesker but she has to not get caught. I don’t think the matchup is anywhere near 7-3. Wesker doesn’t have 7-3’s one on one. Wesker has a weakness against runaway when he’s by himself but he is by no means incapable of catching even the likes of Trish factor in assists and the matchup is at worst 5-5.
7-3 is like guile v. bison (if guile knows the matchup you lost at the character select screen unless he fucks up.
7-3 and 8-2’s are reserved for likes of characters like hulk with shit movement options and no damaging mixup options.
I’m most likely just going to do it based on what is averaged between the S and A tiers and then just round out the rest into B and C tiers.
Oh and yeah you can post up your list as long as you spoiler it up. Anybody can post a tier list it’s just there’s specific players that were picked to round up the grand tier list.
If you get enough likes for your tier list I’ll get you up in there also.
i don’t agree with that she just has to be more careful when vajra is there but i don’t think it puts the matchup in his favor it makes it better for him but i still don’t see it in his favor, like you can’t autopilot in the air anymore, i’m not so worried about getting hit with vajra on the ground(maybe i should be haven’t seen a need to be yet) but as a trish player all i see now is vajra,h.missiles assists to try and limit her air game so trish just needs to be smarter when those type of assists are available
i wasn’t sure about the xf lvl3 i was more using it as an example of if there’s a case where the matchup drastically sways in the other direction
well i don’t mind if he catches up to her although i rather he not have to block and read his stuff but it’s doable. alright 7-3 sounds pretty bad with vajra or anything that limits air play
but that’s exactly how i see it, trish has to mess up to lose that fight, i can see how people would disagree with it but if i lose to a wesker it’s because i messed up just guile has to mess up mulitple times where trish only needs to mess up
I’m not using spoilers because of the nature of this post:
My List, no order within tiers:
S: Viper, Zero, Firebrand, Strider, Dante
**A:**Wesker, Vergil, Doom, Dorm, Magneto
**A-:**Nova, Felicia, Jill, Hawkeye, Trish, Spencer, Wolverine
**B:**Akuma, Ryu, Ammy, Morrigan, Sentinel, V.Joe, X23, Captain America, Phoenix, Storm, TaxMaster, Spider-Man
B-: Thor, Hulk, Chris, Deadpool, MODOK, Rocket Raccoon, Skrull, Strange, Frank
**C:**Haggar, Iron Man, Chun-Li, Iron Fist, Arthur, Nemesis, Ghost Rider, She-Hulk,
**F:**Tron, Shuma, Phoenix Wright, Hsien-Ko
Explanations:
S Tier:
Viper: Has a tool for everything and several things that the other characters have no answer to (such as EX siesmo). Whats more, is that on top of all her tools and excellent space control she can convert almost all of said hits into full ToD combos with a minimum of meter usage. Her only weakness is her desire for an AA assist. This is not really a huge weakness, but giving her one of the many AA assists removes her one and only weak point. Also, she actually has good assists, BK assist is the best overhead assist, Siesmo is among the best OTG assist (along with Wesker and Felecia), and TK as a really good alpha counter. What this means is that even though is is common knowledge to play her on point, she can actually function equally well in all three slots opening up a lot of flexibility for team composition with Viper players. Also, she’s a beast in XF, if you blink, you just got chipped to death.
Zero: The other elephant in the room. Unlike Viper I feel Zero is a pure point character through and through, but damn… He can put unstoppable hitboxes all over the screen and can practically cloak himself in a field of beam sword. Just like Viper he can convert almost all of these tools into full ToD combos. Like Viper he greatly benefits from have a team, not so much to cover any blind spot, but just to reinforce his already stellar mixup game. As a point character, he will always have assists.
Firebrand: Mr. Screen control. Thanks to his good normals and variety of projectile and movement options, he is almost always in control of the flow of the match. His normals give him fuzzy guard, high/low, and cross ups out the ass, and he also has the best unblock able in the game. His assists are solid, and Luminous body is a spectacular DHC and great super in general. His weakness is damage, but using the snap trap his BnB does about 900k, and he has easy raw tag options. Also, with Skrull or Repulsar (hard) he can kill your whole team for free, with many other lockdown assists, he can just get one free hit, which means that 900k BnB is divided between two characters. This also lets you fuck with the other guys team quite badly.
**Strider: **A top 10 character on his own, but he brings some other stuff to the table too. Uroburos is one of the best supers in the game. Once he turns in on he is in total control of the match for an agonizingly long time and can easily turn the tables on any character. He is the best XF3 character in the game and has the best assist in the game, combine these and you get the best anchor, who’s already a beast pre-XF3. Also, his mobility, normals, and specials let him control the whole screen space like the other S-tiers and with the right teams he can do a surprisingly high amount of damage. Also, Formation B is just silly.
Dante: Not much else to say about this guy really, he does everything, and he probably does it better than your character. He has 2 amazing assists, and top class everything else, you can stick him on any team and make it better. Also, a great anchor (if people would practice more).
A-Tier:
Wesker: Wesker is the bread and butter of MvC3, teleports, great normals, and a great projectile. Also, he has a ridiculous command grab. He’s crazy simple, and super effective, and brings a great asset to the table. However, his DHC’s are crap, and he has issues bringing people down from super jump height giving him some pretty bad match ups against some of the other character.
Vergil: In my opinion, Vergil is a machine, if you get it going it can be pretty nasty, but I really don’t think he neutral is all that special. Still a powerful character with great normals. You can address his neutral issues with either DT or Spiral Swords, but these take meter. And by relegating yourself to burning meter to play neutral you won’t have meter for your other characters which opens up some team composition issues. His assists are functional, but pretty average. However, he has some of the best DHC’s in the game and this often makes him an asset for any team.
Doom: Good toolset, good supers, good damage, good screen control, good mobility. Doom’s pretty much just good at everything. However, while good, his mobility is limited and he doesn’t really have anything overly dominating like the S tiers. 3 GDLK assists make him an easy fit for most teams.
**Dorm: **This character is scary good. In fact, if it wasn’t for bad match ups with the S tier characters, he would be an easy S tier. He’s got everything. Great normals, unblockables, and some of the best space control in the game. His assists aren’t special, but it doesn’t matter. Dormammu is a beast.
Magneto: For all the Fat-Neto jokes, Magnus really is just about as adept at doing the magneto thing as he ever way. He’s a rushdown monster. I don’t really need to say more.
I will type explanations for the other characters either on request, or in a bit. But those are what I feel are the really dominating characters in this game.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes, although Dorm by himself is a much better character in this game than Strider by himself was in MvC2.
I also think a tierlist in a team-based fighting game needs to be comprehensive–based on the value of the character’s overall value to a team (assist AND point potential), viability backed with assists, and also viability alone (as point or anchor).
I consider his sub-par assists, Flame Carpet nerf, vulnerability to teleport characters alone, and the need for a beam assist (hurting his team versatility) to be just enough to bump him to just under top-tier status.
Most top Dorm players in Ultimate seem to be having the most success using him as a bootleg Magneto. But while Mags has much better airdashes and Hyper Grav in order to extend his mid-screen combos into possible TODs, Dorm relies on an OTG for extending his combos and keeping his rushdown momentum. Basically the OTG assist isn’t completely necessary to make Dorm very good, but he does turn him from a “This combo is going to hurt” character into “I’m now going to hurt your character while building enough meter to kill them” a la Magneto and The Trenchcoat Mafia.
I would say in general one of Dormammu’s greatest strengths is that he’s one of the very few characters who can protect the air above himself (more or less). That area is a huge blind spot for most zoning characters. Also from my limited experience with the character he seems like he’s really benefited from the air-dash nerf in that if you don’t have a teleport you have to be super patient approaching him.
People talk about how stupid Zeros normals are but Dorm has some pretty stupid ones as well. No pizza cutter but he still has buttons that will make you want to break your fightstick.
I’m flattered you guys want my opinion, but I honestly hardly play Ultimate anymore. Most of my posts are straight up trolls with just a hint of truth to keep people honest, lol.
Nothing below C tier for me, I don’t think anyone is that hopeless.
Anyway, here goes for what it’s worth (I am not considering assists at all in this list, just their ability on point):
Spoiler
S Tier (unconstested, straight up decimate much of the cast without much effort/skill/thought, very few bad matchups, hate them all)
[LIST]
[]Zero
[]Dante
[]Viper
[]Wesker
[*]Dormammu
[/LIST]
A+ Tier (have some problem matches and some holes in their game, but undeniable powerhouses)
[LIST]
[]Vergil
[]Firebrand
[]Hawkeye
[]Phoenix (still really dumb, people are just too lazy to bother anymore)
[]Magneto (same as Phoenix, why the hell does he have 2 supers that hit EVERYWHERE?)
[]Wolverine (same as Mags)
[*]Strider (some might say he’s still unproven and the damage output is a valid complaint, but you can’t ignore his ability to fill the screen with crap and force mixups from full screen)
[/LIST]
A Tier (big list here, which I suppose is a credit to the “balance” in Marvel. I believe people tend to overstate the abilities of many of these characters either because they just don’t know, or because they see some of their favorite players tear it up with them. These are no doubt very strong characters though and all are quite viable.)
[LIST]
[]**Akuma **(Still super solid, air demon flips add mobility and mixups, life nerf is almost irrelevant)
[]Doctor Doom (all aboard the Doom train. I’m tired of saying this, but he’s extremely overrated right now. He will fall well below S Tier in most people’s eyes before the end of the games life cycle)
[]Super Skrull (imo one of the scrubbiest characters in the game. Vastly underrated in vanilla and practically only received buffs)
[]Amaterasu
[]Doctor Strange (crazy mixup with teleports and projectiles, lots of untapped potential. I can see him chaining 3 different mixups in a row with the proper setups)
[]Spencer (insane damage and Bionic Lancer make for a good combination. limited mixup potential, very vulnerable to mixups when coming in. Benefits immensely from people being completely ignorant about his weaknesses as evidenced by all the moaning about how crazy his zipline is. Like Doom, he will rapidly go down the tier list in most people’s eyes but will always be a threat. People should stop and learn his proper combos though. He’s not a BBCS character despite what many think.)
[]Felicia (I’m going mostly by match vids, but she seems very scary with the new delta kick and her damage output is improved too. Can easily land a hit and get in)
[]Trish (annoying)
[]Deadpool (easily one of the most underrated characters in Vanilla and probably more so now in Ultimate. Has one of the best teleports in the game, excellent normals and one of the few viable zoning games. Also a very fun character if you like frustrating your opponent.)
[]Rocket Raccoon (maybe it’s wishful thinking on my end, but this guy seems really buff to me. The small size, teleport mixups, unorthodox trap moves, rocket skates for mobility. He’s a very interesting character at the very least.)
[]Taskmaster (I’ve slowly lost interest in this guy. Maybe it’s because his combos no longer seem fun anymore, but he’s still fairly solid. A little boring and linear. The Balrog of Marvel 3)
[]Frank West (Still on the fence about Frank, but the potential is there so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Very fun character)
[]**X-23 **(Good Character, mixups on par with Wolverine. Damage output much better than in Vanilla, don’t really care beyond that)
[]Spiderman (debatable, but I think he’s really good)
[/LIST]
B Tier (Middle of the pack, on average go about even with most of the cast)
[LIST]
[]**Jill **(some might say she’s A tier material. I don’t necessarily disagree, but she’s not very popular so I don’t feel she’s proven herself)
[]Thor (lots of buffs make him more viable than he was in Vanilla. He still has many weaknesses and still needs a team built around him, but he can be a real terror in the right hands. Imo, there still aren’t any outstanding Thor players (understatement), but the potential is there)
[]Hulk (same boat as Thor, overall much stronger in this game even with the loss of the infinite :bluu:. Can inflict 1.1 million damage for 1 bar without assists so that’s nothing to sneeze at. Added armor on gamma charges help his pressure game immensely. Still has some terrible matches though)
[]Morrigan (improved over vanilla, but I’m still not on board the Morrigan hype train. Most of the fat combos I’ve seen involve way too much meter and I still don’t see the big deal about soul Illusion)
[]Haggar (everything is plus on block and he’s now a legitimate powerhouse. His damage was actually pretty subpar overall in Vanilla, but that’s no longer the case. Respect the Mayor. Loses horribly to zoning.)
[]Captain America (much improved, but still pretty meh imo. Most of his cool combos are now irrelevant with the OTG shield slash. Double jump mostly helps avoid incoming mixups, doesn’t do much for his mobility. Cartwheel buff is nice. Still has terrible blockstrings, launcher is safest normal.)
[]Sentinel (underrated point character, armored normals, great supers, ridiculous air normals, solid damage output if you bother learning proper combos. Still extremely vulnerable up close. Loses horribly to instant overheads.)
[]Chun-Li (Big improvement over Vanilla. can actually get over 700k damage consistently now. potentially viable character)
[]Nova (I still don’t see what the big deal is about this guy, don’t believe the hype. Remember that Combofiend also made Spencer look good in Vanilla when he was strictly B tier imo.)
[]Ryu (much improved, kinda boring imo, don’t really care)
[]Viewtiful Joe (interesting character that’s been making more appearances)
[]MODOK (cool combos, unwieldy, overrated because of cool combo videos, many weaknesses like inability to properly chicken block, dies to instant overheads, terrible :l:'s, ugly)
[]Chris (much better than before, but still is a zoner in a game where that doesn’t cut it if you don’t also excel at other things.)
[]Shuma (weird character, frankly don’t know much about him. Chaos Dimension is nice, but not as nice as Dirt Nap, multi-hit normals tend to kill his damage early on in combos, probably lots left to explore)
[]Storm (No more DHC glitch, so her lack of damage is more apparent. Bad assists. Not a terrible character though. Nice normals. Hail Storm and Elemental Rage are good supers)
[]She-hulk (Most people exaggerate her nerfs. She’s still quite playable. Can still combo off airthrows if she uses up wall bounce and goes for reset instead of emerald cannon. bff with Thor imo)
[/LIST]
C Tier (Many glaring flaws, difficult to play for little reward)
[LIST]
[]Iron Fist (JWong notwithstanding, most people seem to agree that he’s completely ground based and that’s not a good thing in Marvel. Who am I to say otherwise)
[]Iron Man (Ignore the recent tutorial vid. Still complete ass apart from his assists. Change to air dash crippled him. My favorite character :sad:)
[]Nemesis (Giant punching bag with few redeeming qualities. Extremely sub-par damage output for one of the big guys)
[]Hsien Ko (use her for her assist or don’t use her at all)
[]Arthur (improved, but not nearly enough. XF3 Arthur is and always was a joke, don’t buy into the myth.)
[]Ghost Rider (decent counter pick to some of the higher characters but overall quite underwhelming)
[]Phoenix Wright (bad, but not as bad as people say)
[]Tron (won’t go into detail, but most of her redeeming qualities are gone.
[/LIST]
Here’s my personal (read: meaningless) current tier list. No order within tiers.
Spoiler
S Tier: Zero, Viper
A+ Tier: Doctor Doom, Wesker, Dante, Strider, Firebrand, Phoenix
A Tier: Wolverine, Magneto, Dormammu, Spencer, Amaterasu, Vergil
B+ Tier: Storm, Taskmaster, Hawkeye, Trish, Akuma
B Tier: Morrigan, Sentinel, Felicia, Nova, Jill, Skrull
C+ Tier: X-23, Chris, Ryu, MODOK, Rocket Raccoon, Deadpool, Spiderman, Hulk, Iron Man
C Tier: Captain America, Chun-li, Frank West, Doctor Strange, Iron Fist, Viewtiful Joe, Haggar, Nemesis, Ghost Rider, Thor
D+ Tier: Arthur, She-Hulk, Shuma Gorath
D Tier: Tron, Hsien-ko, Phoenix Wright
Continued:
S: Viper, Zero, Firebrand, Strider, Dante
**A:**Wesker, Vergil, Doom, Dorm, Magneto
**A-:**Nova, Felicia, Jill, Hawkeye, Trish, Spencer, Wolverine
**B:**Akuma, Ryu, Ammy, Morrigan, Sentinel, V.Joe, X23, Captain America, Phoenix, Storm, TaxMaster, Spider-Man
B-: Thor, Hulk, Chris, Deadpool, MODOK, Rocket Raccoon, Skrull, Strange, Frank
**C:**Haggar, Iron Man, Chun-Li, Iron Fist, Arthur, Nemesis, Ghost Rider, She-Hulk,
**F:**Tron, Shuma, Phoenix Wright, Hsien-Ko
A- -Tier:
Nova: Nova as a standalone character isn’t that special, but on a team he is very scary. Similar to Vergil, once he gets is stuff going it very hard to stop him. However, his specials and assists are pretty suspect. Energy Javelin is really good though and it lets him be very flexible. Again, on the right team, Nova will blow you up fast.
Felicia: Fuck that stupid little belly flopping cat. Her approach isn’t the best, but don’t ever let this cat touch you, her mixup and reset game is among the best and her helper super gives her easy unblockables and makes is nigh impossible to keep her off of you. The new Delta kick lets her convert from the air very easily and gives her a great approach. Also, all of this is multiplied by x1000 in XF3. She also has probably the best low assist and one the the top class OTG assists.
Jill: Good luck blocking. Seriously, Jill might as well just be unblockable cause your kidding yourself if you think you can block her. Her normals and mobility are also stellar an she does way to much damage for a character like this. She has one of the best hypers in the game (MGS) and very workable assists. She does need some very specific team composition to be used to full effect (lockdown, OTG), but that is very doable. Also one of the games best battery characters.
Hawkeye: He’s got arrows, and great normals. He’s really a metagame force, it is very difficult to get close to him and Gimlet means that you can’t even twitch wrong or your dead. Also, has great assists. As the metagame changes, I expect Hawkeye to drop.
Trish: Very, very annoying. Pretty much the same as Vanilla, she’s the queen of super jump heigh. She’ll frustrate you into making a mistake and hurt your for it. She also has some very good supers and can be an asset on most any team. Damage is a little weak though, and in many ways, Firebrand is just a better Trish.
Spencer: Very solid. Does a lot of damage (a lot), and has good mixup and mobility options. Plus, it can be very hard to get him off of you. Bionic Arm is also always a threat you mush respect. Still, not as overwhelming as the characters above him. Slant shot is also more valuable in this game than it was in Vanilla.
Wolverine: Same as before, but now has to actually set up breserker slash. However, this is really easy. He’s still got unflappable normals and mixup, and has great damage. He’s not much worse than he was in Vanilla, just much less stupid.
I am honored to be on the list bows
[details=Spoiler]S Tier: Zero, Dante, Viper
A+ Tier: Dormammu, Wesker, Magneto, Ammy, Spencer, Strider, Firebrand, Trish
A-: Jill, Hawkeye, Doom, Nova, Vergil, Felicia, Taskmaster, Phoenix, Morrigan, Wolverine
B: Frank West, Sentinel, Akuma, Skrull, MODOK, Deadpool, Spider-Man, Rocket Raccoon, Storm, Captain America, X-23, Chris, Strange, Captain America
C: Thor, Nemesis, Hulk, Joe, Iron Fist, Haggar, Shuma, Ryu, She-Hulk, Iron Man, Arthur,
D: Ghost Rider, Chun-Li, Hsien-Ko, Tron, Phoenix Wright
There are so many good characters in this game. B tier isn’t bad, and hell C tier has some good characters in it too! But to be fair, I had to separate some from others. He are a few that I think people will be questioning:
Trish: Slept on character. Not only does she have great match ups, she also can transition pretty seamlessly from keepaway to rush down. She has a good tri-dash, dicekick and box dash (her jumping S is similar to Wesker’s). Also, Pekaboo and Round Harvest can add a lot to a team.
Spencer: People are underselling this dude now. Zipline + assist is as good as an approach as any. The hitbox on the zipline really fucks with a lot of characters who are air dashing or trying to do shit at normal jump height. He isn’t a great anchor, but who is better as an achor than on point (Strider…<_<)?
Jill: I don’t know if it’s because she’s DLC, but Jill is so slept on right now. She’s got all the things to be a successful character. A pseudo-teleport, an overhead, a command grab, great dash, great normals, great meter building, one of the best reversals, and decent assist (Cross Over Counter niggas).
Doom: Great character, but a little over hyped. Still has weak options against characters above him, and can’t quite open someone up like Magneto. There are so many good characters in this game, and Doom is one of them. He just isn’t top 10 or top 5 in my opinion. Not as much changed from Vanilla to Ultimate as it seems
Vergil: I am a skeptic, but I can’t ignore the self-contained DHC Glitch that is Vergil. I believe his neutral game is weaker than a lot of the other higher tier characters, but he has absolutely crazy normals. In the 2nd spot this guy is a nightmare
**She-Hulk: **She’s ass, but she isn’t as bad as D tier. She still has an anti-air super, and he command grabs can be mean in conjunction with assist. She could be effective with two specific assist.
Thor: This guy is good, but he suffers from having bad mobility and other characters do what he can better. Very playable and on the verge of my B tier simply because of the command grab resets, high health, and high damage.
**Ghost Rider: **I’ve already been over this. He has more holes in his offense than swiss cheese. He takes VERY selective assist to compliment his game and that’s not good unless those assist break your game open (hello Zero). His a huge target to without much threat to rush down characters in his face.[/details]
Thank you. Glad people are finally looking at her new stuff and not assuming she’s still garbage.