UMVC3 SRK Tier List/Theory Discussion. (NEW THREAD NOW AVAILABLE)

[CriminalUpper]

Why is it when I watch Cap players all they do is LMHS MMHS OTG relaunch MMHS Super?

I honestly believed that was all he was capable of till I watched this:

[media=youtube]AcciqJPlGhc[/media]

[DevilJin_01]

Why exactly is Haggar considered so good in Ultimate, anyway? I haven’t seen him played much and I don’t play him, but his buffs really didn’t seem that good? Did he get stealth-buffed or were his buffs just better than they looked in the changelog?

Mainly he went from just doing a lot of damage when he hits you with pipe to just flat out killing you because of OTG buff. He can now get full combos off his command grab now too which was a big sore issue of his in Vanilla.

snip

My brother always used to do his swag self relaunch stuff in Vanilla but in Ultimate he’s all easy mode now with the Wesker OTG stuff.

[Densuo]

Why exactly is Haggar considered so good in Ultimate, anyway? I haven’t seen him played much and I don’t play him, but his buffs really didn’t seem that good? Did he get stealth-buffed or were his buffs just better than they looked in the changelog?

Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 player highlight: Bum1six3 and his...

he recieved invinviblity on startup of Rapid Fire Fists. While someone caught airborne can still fly out, it’s still a good setup for reset throw supers like She Hulk or Frank. Iron man’s Slanted Proton or Task parabolic Legion etc wont care though.

his OTG is a godsend for him. as now he can combo after all grabs with an assist.or at least use his otg two times in a row for a smidgen more damage

all his stuff with few exceptions are safe on block. and they way Bum showed some stuff with him it’s like Haggar really doesnt give a shit about pushblock.

his lariat on point is still a powerful reaction tool. And is still decent as an assist

[Mallrat]

its just that he can kill of any connect, almost no character can do that. and his 50/50’s are so easy. Theres a reason you are seeing more and more Haggar on point players popping up and beating people. Bum is great, but his team is far from optimized for Haggar. On point with the right assist he has probably the best match up chart in the game imo.

Is it really that far off from being optimized for Haggar? Both assists let Haggar extend his OTG combos very well (if you notice Bum doesn’t have to waste a ground bounce with the ground pipe into Hoodlum L) and both are great for letting Haggar bulldog his way in. I really don’t know what Haggar needs beyond that.

[snadmonkey]

Wow… I tried to read this thread about tiers and it is really really bad. Most people in this thread really don’t seem to know what they are talking about. For instance, strider in top 10, ha ha not even close. Wesker not being in top 5, you guys must know truely understand his frametraps and crazy good command grab after he has established those traps. Viper top 5, nah good sure but not up there, her mixups are pretty basic just learn to block high after any special and to use an AA move if she tries to triangle jump in unprotected and she’s just like any other air dash matchup. Felicia upper tier, no not at all, just learn to stay above her when in the air and punish all her other moves and she’s not that tough, also kitty helper pressure is blockable its not that hard with any practice.

Lots of other terrible arguments and teir decisions but no point in going into great lengths since alot of people don’t really understand lots of key poitns about matchups. I’ll run off my top 5 and bottom 5 since i said anything at all

Top 5 in order:

1. Zero 2. Dorm 3. Wesker 4. Doom 5. Dante (number 5 is up for debate but he’s top 7 at worse)
   Bottom 5:
   Jill, Shuma, Hsien-ko, Rocket, Modok

[Nitro_Noodlez]

Bottom 5:
Jill, Shuma, Hsien-ko, Rocket, Modok

Looks like someone just invalidated their entire post…

[Linari]

snip

[details=Spoiler][’]

[/details]]('http://h3.abload.de/img/nykyk9fua.gif[/spoiler)

[NissanZaxima]

Wow… I tried to read this thread about tiers and it is really really bad. Most people in this thread really don’t seem to know what they are talking about. For instance, strider in top 10, ha ha not even close. Wesker not being in top 5, you guys must know truely understand his frametraps and crazy good command grab after he has established those traps. Viper top 5, nah good sure but not up there, her mixups are pretty basic just learn to block high after any special and to use an AA move if she tries to triangle jump in unprotected and she’s just like any other air dash matchup. Felicia upper tier, no not at all, just learn to stay above her when in the air and punish all her other moves and she’s not that tough, also kitty helper pressure is blockable its not that hard with any practice.

Lots of other terrible arguments and teir decisions but no point in going into great lengths since alot of people don’t really understand lots of key poitns about matchups. I’ll run off my top 5 and bottom 5 since i said anything at all

Top 5 in order:
1. Zero 2. Dorm 3. Wesker 4. Doom 5. Dante (number 5 is up for debate but he’s top 7 at worse)
Bottom 5:
Jill, Shuma, Hsien-ko, Rocket, Modok

The tier list on the OP

S Tier = C.Viper,** Dante, Dorm,** Strider, Wesker (Alllllberrrrt), Zero

A+ Tier = Doom, Firebrand, Magneto, Vergil,

A Tier = Akuma, Ammy, Felicia, Hawkeye, Nova, Phoenix, Spencer, Taxmaster, Trish, Wolverine,

B Tier = Captain America, Chris, Deadpool, Dr.Strange, Frank West, Hulk, Jill, MODOK, Morrigan, Nemesis, Rocket Raccoon, Ryu, Sentinel, Spider Man, Storm, Super Skrull, Thor, V.Joe, X-23

C Tier = Arthur, Chun Li, Ghost Rider, Haggar, Hsien Ko, Iron Fist, Iron Man, Phoenix Wright, She Hulk, Shuma, Tron,

[SIZE=4]Did you even bother reading the OP or were you so desperate to bust out your flame cannon that you selectively chose a couple of posts that you could personally attack and apply it to the entire thread[/SIZE]?

Also your bottom 5 is absolutely hilarious. Rocket, Jill, and MODOK bottom 5?

[SteelyHawke]

"One method of approach"
Theoretically, you’re right, but when that approach is covered by a fireball with no recovery, it gets much, much better. Besides, she’s a zoning character, you only need to approach in very rare circumstances or when your opponent has put themselves in the wrong position. Also, assist covered forward dash is another good approach which leads to a vague high low.

All it means is that you have to know how to block and pick your moments. It is no big deal in X-Factor, Astral vision mode or even when she is normal. She can mess with your plans if you are pressing buttons like a fool, but blocking a few high fireballs is a joke. I’ll agree that her forward dash pairs well with assists. I’ve abused it a lot myself.

"Low damage"
If damage is a factor for you, you can kill 900k with 2 supers, given the right team comp. Omniscythe was running Morrigan/Vergil/Wesker, stealing meter and killing a lot of characters for either 2 or 3 meter in one hit. It’s just optimizing her hits is really difficult. besides, if you don’t care about killing in one hit, you can just zone and confirm whatever hits you do get into 300k with meter steal and just keep winning neutral game… she does that really well, so against a lot of characters you really just won’t need to one shot.

The problem is how much work you have to do without resets. Her soul fist loops are no walk in the park and she can’t TOD unless you have less than 950k health. Having to think about what moves you should do to maximize damage is a big fault against her already. Not that she needs a damage boost real bad. Her fireballs pack some punch and she can be plenty scary with meter and chip strategies.

"No non-metered OTG"
She HAS an OTG though. And she can combo to DHC or XFC with it reliably, so when you need someone dead, you can definitely use that OTG. Better than Trish, who is widely considered a top character, yet has no comboable OTG to combo her grabs. So, Trish’s grabs are useless, but she’s good, and Morrigans grabs are meter dependant but comboable, and she’s bad? (She also has an OTGable 1 frame command grab that can be OS’d to reversal super, you know)

Are you talking about Shadow servant which I mentioned? Are you talking about blowing XF just to combo off an OTG hyper when tons of characters can get a free followup without blowing the most important reserve tool in the game?

Shadow servant is nice, but it’s not something to write home about when it comes to it’s OTG properties. Having a normal or special OTG move is a big part of being a really really good character. Not having one makes it harder to have that high spot, but it doesn’t mean that it’s impossible.

"Redeeming qualities"
Okay, now I’m confident you’ve never played a good morrigan, or you would understand she is not a “underwhelming character with redeeming qualities”. She has absolutely every tool necessary to be at** the least a high tier character**. She has strong, low/no commitance zoning. If she’s in flight, she can block absolutely anything regardless of if she’s already in a move (Think gimlet/bionic arm/etc). She has a reversal super that is safe at many distances and beats almost every hyper in the game when activated second. If you use her Blade assist, her team hyper combo becomes a reversal you can mash on while blocking that will blow up assists for free and be plus 20+ frames for her afterwards. Her zoning with mirror image is unrivaled, and beats nearly every character in the game (And still generates meter, during)

I think you should take a second or third look at her, and stop looking backwards to other games. This is not the same morrigan, and that doesn’t mean she’s bad.

You make it sound like she could be something more than a high tier character and if you believe that then you have to pass some of that good stuff my way, bro. She does have nice high low mixups, Shadow servant’s invul frames are glorious, Darkness illusion is very combo friendly/has tons of invul, j.S has some great priority, her zoning game is definitely one of the strongest in Mahvel history as far as I’m concerned, her assist adds a ton of potential to meter hungry teams, she has solid health, her flight mode is pretty fast all things considered, her other assists do give her some THC options, Astral vision is pretty safe to DHC into and she can chicken block like no other.

I never said she was bad, but I’m not going to say that she is high tier just yet. She can wreck teams now in the right hands though. The problem is that her rushdown is not certifiably strong like her zoning is and rushdown is essential in Mahvel no matter how many times Niitsuma and his team try to balance the game towards zoning styles. I’ll say that she has the potential for high tier in Ultimate with time. I guess we’ll find out in a few more months as Morrigan players continue to refine their close up game alongside her strong zoning.

[Alzarath]

Bottom 5:
Jill, Shuma, Hsien-ko, Rocket, Modok

So… You think Phoenix Wright is better than Jill/RR/Modok.

Spoiler

[media=youtube]fLrpBLDWyCI[/media]

[Maverick8]

Wow… I tried to read this thread about tiers and it is really really bad. Most people in this thread really don’t seem to know what they are talking about. For instance, strider in top 10, ha ha not even close. Wesker not being in top 5, you guys must know truely understand his frametraps and crazy good command grab after he has established those traps. Viper top 5, nah good sure but not up there, her mixups are pretty basic just learn to block high after any special and to use an AA move if she tries to triangle jump in unprotected and she’s just like any other air dash matchup. Felicia upper tier, no not at all, just learn to stay above her when in the air and punish all her other moves and she’s not that tough, also kitty helper pressure is blockable its not that hard with any practice.

Lots of other terrible arguments and teir decisions but no point in going into great lengths since alot of people don’t really understand lots of key poitns about matchups. I’ll run off my top 5 and bottom 5 since i said anything at all

Top 5 in order:

1. Zero 2. Dorm 3. Wesker 4. Doom 5. Dante (number 5 is up for debate but he’s top 7 at worse)
   Bottom 5:
   Jill, Shuma, Hsien-ko, Rocket, Modok

It is bad, so don’t Come back.

Lol @ kitty helper pressure being easily blockable with practice.

Seriously, if it’s so bad, don’t come back.

[ironboy89]

For those actually believe that Jill should be bottom tier.

Here.

Why is it when I watch Cap players all they do is LMHS MMHS OTG relaunch MMHS Super?

I honestly believed that was all he was capable of till I watched this:

[media=youtube]AcciqJPlGhc[/media]

Probably because Most Cap don’t try their optimize their Combos? It’s not like there aren’t Cap that don’t try to make better combos.
[media=youtube]npY8DtUXXk8[/media]

[DevilJin_01]

Now that i know kitty helper is easy to block I’ll never have problems with Dark Felicia again.

[Windu25]

Wow… I tried to read this thread about tiers and it is really really bad. Most people in this thread really don’t seem to know what they are talking about. For instance, strider in top 10, ha ha not even close. Wesker not being in top 5, you guys must know truely understand his frametraps and crazy good command grab after he has established those traps. Viper top 5, nah good sure but not up there, her mixups are pretty basic just learn to block high after any special and to use an AA move if she tries to triangle jump in unprotected and she’s just like any other air dash matchup. Felicia upper tier, no not at all, just learn to stay above her when in the air and punish all her other moves and she’s not that tough, also kitty helper pressure is blockable its not that hard with any practice.

Lots of other terrible arguments and teir decisions but no point in going into great lengths since alot of people don’t really understand lots of key poitns about matchups. I’ll run off my top 5 and bottom 5 since i said anything at all

Top 5 in order:

1. Zero 2. Dorm 3. Wesker 4. Doom 5. Dante (number 5 is up for debate but he’s top 7 at worse)
   Bottom 5:
   Jill, Shuma, Hsien-ko, Rocket, Modok

About Strider: Why?
About Wesker: We get that. We don’t feel it makes him top 5 because some characters make it hard for him to get in safely to apply his pressure.
About Viper: Ha. Who, worth their salt, air dashes unprotected? And if you start blocking high after specials, you’re going to eat a feint cancelled Thunder Knuckle into a s.L or cr.M. Start blocking those? f.M overhead. Enjoy your lost character.
About Felicia: You talk about Wesker’s command grab but neglect to mention Felicia’s? For shame. Also, what exactly are you punishing? Dive kick is positive on frames. Cat spike is positive. No ones uses the roll by itself, nor does anyone use the H. Charge makes normals safe. So…what are you punishing? And if you think Helper is blockable, the people you play aren’t using it right.

[NissanZaxima]

Now that i know kitty helper is easy to block I’ll never have problems with Dark Felicia again.

Speaking of which I saw a Felicia on a stream and she didnt do too well.

[Alzarath]

Now that i know kitty helper is easy to block I’ll never have problems with Dark Felicia again.

Word. And all I have to do to fight air dash chars is to block high. Didn’t know that.

Never losing to Magneto again.

[Dahbomb]

I know people laugh at results talk and all here but these are the character distribution and wins for the 3 major tournaments for UMVC3 (NEC, SCR and Apex). If Frost Faustings IV is counted, then please let me know I can add that in as well.

APEX Top 8

1. DRS|Masta CJ (Dormammu, Magneto, Wesker)
2. UVG|Noel Brown (Wolverine, Frank West, Wesker)
3. Alukard (Wesker, Iron Man, Super-Skrull)
4. AG|Demon Hyo (Magneto, Wolverine, Chun-Li)
5. LB|NYChrisG (Hawkeye, Ryu, Wesker)
6. RayRay (Ryu, Magneto, Sentinel)
7. IGT|Unkn0wn (Nemesis, Sentinel, Wesker)
8. Sean Y (Vergil, Taskmaster, Wesker)

SoCal Regionals Top 8:

1st – EG Justin Wong (Iron Fist, Wolverine, Akuma)
2nd – MINE (Wesker, Taskmaster, Magneto)
3rd – UVG Noel Brown (Wolverine, Frank West, Wesker)
4th – Clockw0rk (Doctor Doom, Strider, Amaterasu)
5th – FC Jago (Dante, Trish, Wesker)
5th – Dios X (Doctor Doom, Storm, Sentinel)
7th – Vader (Wolverine, Dormammu, Doctor Doom)
7th – Viscant (Wesker, Doctor Doom, Phoenix)

NEC Top 8:

1. PR Balrog (Spencer, Wolverine, Wesker)
2. LB|ChrisGNY (Hawkeye, Ryu, Wesker)
3. UVG|Noel Brown (Wolverine, Frank West, Wesker)
4. EG|Justin Wong (Storm, Wesker, Akuma)
5. DRS|OMG Itz Andre (Vergil, Magneto, Wesker)
6. FC|Jago (Wesker, Dante, Trish)
7. NYC FAB (Wesker, Taskmaster, Akuma)
8. DJ Huoshen (Felicia, Super-Skrull, Taskmaster)

Total Top 8 Character Usage:

Wesker: 17
Wolverine: 7
Magneto: 5
Doom: 3 (all exlusively used at SCR)
Taskmaster: 3
Frank West: 3
Sentinel: 3
Ryu: 3
Akuma: 3
Vergil: 2
Dante: 2
Hawkeye: 2
Storm: 2
Super Skrull: 2
Dormammu: 2
Iron Fist: 1
Spencer: 1
Phoenix: 1
Trish: 1
Iron Man: 1
Felicia: 1
Nemesis: 1
Amaterasu: 1
Strider: 1
Chun Li: 1

Major Winners:

Wesker: 2
Wolverine: 2
Iron Fist: 1
Magneto: 1
Dormammu: 1
Spencer: 1
Akuma: 1

[DevilJin_01]

Gooooo IRON FIST.

[xesaie]

Man EC loves them some wesker.

Yeah I tend to talk him up compared to people (with reason!) but damn.

I guess we should be happy, 1 less than at NEC

[Demon_Dash]

Wow… I tried to read this thread about tiers and it is really really bad. Most people in this thread really don’t seem to know what they are talking about…
Lots of other terrible arguments and teir decisions but no point in going into great lengths since alot of people don’t really understand lots of key poitns about matchups. I’ll run off my top 5 and bottom 5 since i said anything at all

Top 5 in order:

1. Zero 2. Dorm 3. Wesker 4. Doom 5. Dante

95% agreement.