I have to disagree here. A character who has amazing BS and a useful assist is better than a character who just has amazing on point BS.
This is partly why I say Firebrand is A-Tier, although he excels at rushdown his assists are garbage which means he generally can’t support the rest of teammates.
In contrast to Viper who has good DHC ability, a useful assist, and also has amazing on point BS.
<3 you
This so much, it irks me so much when people say “X isn’t as good without Y assist!” If they aren’t as good without that assist, then who the hell would play them without that assist and why would you factor that in to tiering? You didn’t see “Strider is X tier without Doom AAA or Sent Drones” in mvc2, and people shouldn’t do that here when tiering characters.
What do you mean by Strider is a “pure anchor” though?
Like I said, flexibility makes a character better, but the lack of it does not make another character worse. See my Doom vs Strider example.
He isn’t, I was just trying to come up with an example that wouldn’t take even more explaining. I think Strider is best in the third slot. But if I got 3 bars, I’m bringing the ninja in, period.
my bad 
I would place her in C though
She has a command throw people aren’t using enough.
Does it have enough range to make it relevant giving her crap mobility though?
I don’t really know enough about Hsien-Ko to hate intelligently, just enough to hate for fun. 
Ah, okay I got ya. I still think Strider is best in the 2nd slot though since he is so much scarier with an assist backing him up. It’s just a shame that Legion has limited DHC uses.
Characters better than Wesker
Viper
Dante
Dormmamu
Felicia
Hawkeye
Magneto
Spencer
Strider
Taskmaster
Trish
Zero
Characters possibly the same as Wesker or better/worse by a small margin
Amaterasu
Doctor Doom
Docter Strange
Firebrand
Jill
Nova
Skrull
Vergil
Wolverine
Please stop putting Wesker top 10 in your lists. PLEASEEE
It is safe though, and technically the animals come out 1 frame post flash. Still not a good super, but not without value or uses (unlike Mighty Thundah!!!)
Phoenix is a better example. A team that can utilize the full power of her as anchor is batshit crazy. Where Doom goes everywhere on a team. That doesn’t take away from Phoenix but adds on to Doom’s ability.
Exactly, that is a better example.
I completely disagree that Firebrands assists are garbage. I thought they were bad at first as well. Demon missile can basically be treated like a beam for left right mixups. Swoop is also useful for some characters like Chris or Vergil because of the unusual space it covers. It is really useful for Vergil.
But it does make another character more valuable per say. Back to Doom/Strider, I consider Firebrand to have S-Tier qualities but he’s only A because if I want BS level rushdown I can choose Strider who gives me Vajara OR Zero who at least gives me a decent “beam-like” assist when in shadow clone mode. If I chose Firebrand i’m getting a great rushdown package, but a character who is basically useless off point. @Zaxima, Firebrand is so damn vulnerable during those assists though, and it takes nothing to kill him while on point, and even less of that while off.
At least I can back-call Zero in a corner, and Vajra is difficult to see.
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=xjmCD05x9Vg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL#t=6m42s
This is probably also something I could show xesaie towards the argument of why being able to land a hit after you drop a combo is more important than how easy/hard the combo is to finish…
Though they main reason I’m linking this is just simply it’s a situation where Wolverine is notorious for coming out pretty well in. Just mashing on dive kick after a combo is drops or is put in a reset. Most other characters would have to dash behind the dive kick but Viper already had 1 and a half meters and had no problem just blowing for a possible kill. Noel was smart in a way to call an assist while he ended up resetting (cuz they stupidly coded that in the game mechanics) but it worked out in Viper’s favor whipping out her self oversized Vanilla Tron assist and putting both Wolvie and Frank in a shopping cart of seismo death.
Honestly if you wanna make an argument about why Viper is S…it’s definitely that part right there. Any other character would have to do a lot more work to deal with that situation.
That’s what I said?
I think we might be arguing the same thing?
As for the Firebrand example, okay so he’s useless off point (not true by the way, but I get what you’re saying)… then don’t play him off pint. Like I said, if your using a character for something he isn’t good at, that doesn’t make the character worse.
I support this.
Characters should be in tiers because of individual tools not because of teams. And yes, tiers should be affected by the assist options that a character can bring to a team, not about how good an assisted character is.
These tier discussions are honestly getting a little moot (and kind of ugly) at this point. People are posting tier lists that are more or less exactly the same as the person who posted one before. Then we argue about Viper/Zero/Wesker for 10 pages. The only thing that strikes me as changing much are those characters at the fringe of the tiers. Does it matter if someone put Trish or Taskmaster in A+ and the next guy put them in A? Not really, we all know they’re still good. Jill seems to bounce around A and B. Most of it’s really getting to be more of the same. I’m interested in seeing where this conversation goes in a year. As for now I think we’re kind of stuck.
Even if he gets bopped out of swoop it is unlikely they will be able to convert any substantial damage off of it. Unless of course its a beam super or something but all assists are vulnerable to that.
We are going to have to agree to disagree though. But I do wonder why you put Viper in S as well then because she is in the same boat as Firebrand would be in your eyes. Amazing on point but not as great in the assist department.
This isn’t really what he said. Nitro said characters should be tiered when being used to their fullest, which in this game includes teams. They should be tiered based on how they perform in situations they shouldn’t be used for anyways.
Hence, The MvC2 example:
Strider is top tier with Doom, but mid tier without doom. Therefore Strider is top tier, because if your using him without Doom, your just doing it wrong.