The reason I really got into ultimate after finding Vanilla so boring was because RR feels like a propper zoning character to me unlike those of Vanilla. Dormammu, Zero and to some extent Doom appealed to me but even their zoning games feel a bit too one dimensional and overly keep away oriented. Seen people using the terms as if they were just substitutes for each other.
Might as well close this thread, people are pretty hellbent on whatâs already been decided, anything alternative anyone says wont matter. I honestly see nothing constructive coming from this thread but people going round in circles bitching and trolling about the same shit. You already have the lists from most of the people you want, job done IMO.
I think you are the one who is trolling. Your second paragraph is reaching to the point of insisting that Wright has mix up options. âHe can pull of solid mix ups with slip up and low hitting mayaâ GTFO. Those mix up options are terrible. Next, the reason why it appears that âno one is listening to youâ is because your arguments are seriously wack and the poor details are only roided up by you labeling people as trolls for refuting you.
Hsien ko and Tron are able to apply those things better than Wright can outside of your imagination. Itâs like your whole point of view on Wrightâs viability is based off the things youâve managed to do against a Very Hard mode computer. Wrightâs normals have long frames that can get stuffed by any one in the cast and all his best features are impracticable and impossible to achieve consistently. Why use him if you can use Arthur or Hsien ko who can zone, anchor better (Arthur) and supply a decent assist?
Shouldnât Phoenix Wright be considered a multi tiered character, just like Frank West? They get better as they level or find evidence.
No. Frankâs leveling up is actually based on skill and it is viable in strategy. PWâs isnât. His TBM is a nice buff mode but it still doesnât salvage him as a gimmick character. Iâm loling at the guy talking about how Tron and Hsien ko are worse than PW.
Thereâs no such thing as a multi-tiered character. You tier what you can pick on the character select screen, you have to take a character as the whole package, you canât just separate out one half from the other.
Fixed.
Frank can be applied without being centered on luck and IMO is much more rewarding. Roll, stronger normals into broken hitboxes Zero would be envious of, and he has a great assist as well as good DHC option via the shopping cart of doom that can setup his level up mechanic which if it happens, out come the happy happy chainsaws.
Want to know why SRK as a whole is considered a joke of a community to most other FG communities? Because of this. Right here. The elitist attitude is just sad. Someone makes an argument and you go straight to insulting their game. You canât even begin to get out of your ways and consider alternatives, you have to assume that someone who disagrees with you is either trolling or sucks at the game.
Maybe if people were willing to at least consider something, this thread would be worth something as opposed to retreading the same tired arguments over and over. Or maybe Marvel as a whole would move beyond Wesker dominating everything because people would be willing to try new things. Your elitist mentality isnât just pathetic, itâs actually harmful to the game as whole, so good job on that one, buddy.
I think Apex went to show how these multi tiered characters can fall apart when things donât go right. I want my 2nd character to be ready to kick some ass from the get go.
With Noel Brownâs team if Wolverine lands the first hit itâs all gravy and Frank can easily get to level 4 and then his team effectively has 2 anchors. One that utilizes XF (Wesker) and one that just shuts most things down period (lvl 4 Frank). The problem is if Wolverine dies youâre coming in with a character that has little to no scare factor especially with gun shot as his only assist. You donât even get to left/right mix up till you get to like level 3 (roll + assist) which doesnât help at all. I just think itâs too risky when it comes to like full on tournament winning. Youâll definitely rape on people that you are clearly better than and West will look like a god getting free chip from half way across the screen. Itâs just when you play against someone that knows how to fight Wolverine and you lose WolvieâŚthings turn for the worse because then the team effectively only has 2 characters just because your first one died early.
If there was a way to get Frank to level 4 without having to land a hit on the opponent firstâŚI would rate him higher than B tier. Dark Wesker is really good but heâs just not going to be consistent enough in situations where itâs almost guaranteed heâll have to fight 3 people if Wolvie dies before landing a hit. Heâll most likely get lamed out before killing down 3 people.
Is there any way to start Frank first and on a hit land a combo reliably to get to level 4? I feel that would be better (if still risky) than having him as a second spot where he either becomes a god or a character thatâs free to an incoming mix up + a waste of a second spot if the point character died early.
Jin, Frank gets the roll at level 2. Just thought I would let you know. Level 3 he gets the anti air hyper, level 4 happy happy chainsaws as well as his ground bounce becoming crazy. And level 5 damage boost.
I think the S-A tier subject is the one we should go back and talk about. I want to give an additional reason (besides the MVC2 logic) why i canât agree with Zero, Wesker, and Viper as the respected believed Tier S and thats because of Dormammu, Wolverine, and Strider Hiryu. These 3 characters have an equal reputation of being sick when played right - sure that could be a theory-fighter statement but at a realistic point of view these extra 3 characters have showed off god like things that no one in the cast can imitate.
I also think that Phoenix still has the potential to be a beast like of an anchor, itâs just the problem is that Strider and Wesker seem to be a more popular anchor choice. Wolverine has proven that he is a one of a kind dangerous character, but Phoenix has not proven to most as to why she is a better anchor than Strider and Wesker⌠I donât know, but iâm interested on your view points on Wolverine, Phoenix and Strider.
Damage is not why Tron sucks, she can hit over 900K easily (some are even close to a mil) with 2 bars and an assist that utilizes the Clakey D ender and all her combos are self sufficient itâs landing the first hit that is damn near impossible at times.
Thatâs nice but yeahâŚunfortunately roll into gun shot assist isnât that reliable of a left/right mix up. Just does not have enough active frames or a big enough hit box to really scare people into a left/right. If he had like Magneto in the back he could get at least a soild left/right going with a fast beam assist but, tournament players still like having a gimped 2nd character for XF3/4 Dark Albert instead.
My problem with Phoenix anchor is that some of the new characters like Hawkeye and Strider are complete issues for her even if she gets 5 bars. Itâs getting to the point where Dark Strider with 3 bars basically wins vs. Dark Phoenix. The game basically brought in more anchors that are a legit problem for her and her health being knocked down 75k more doesnât help the cause.
Also at level 2 he gets those Round House moves but you donât see them used too much. Also his OTG Ground bounce move bounces high enough to do it easily at Level 3, but he can always use the bounce with the right set up.
edit: wait what level does the Deadmeat super get invincibility on start up? I wanna say 3 but Iâm not too sure.
I know. TBH, I would be more scared of a Vergil in XF3 sitting on 3+ bars. DT on steroids. Wesker needs to be on point or second to utilize his truly scary shit.
Phoenix to me is still the best anchor. If you get her out, you usually will still win the game unless of course you are facing Arthurjoke
Yes there is, and yes you can. In MvC2 Strider and Spiral are tiered under the assumption theyâre partnered with Doom and Sentinel respectively. Theyâre multi tiered because otherwise theyâre not competitive, people just donât bother to list them without those partners because of their relevance in the meta with those particular teams. Does PW have an assist that makes easy TM? Perhaps. If that is the case then his tiers should be revised because he suddenly becomes relevant in the meta, TM becomes common place and PW becomes multi tiered, top tier with x assist, bottom tier without it.
Perhaps not the right place to ask, but what makes Viper an S tier character? I always thought she was A-ish
Shoryuken is respected as one of the most reliable forums/discussions involving fighting games. Just because we are telling you that PW is at the bottom of the tiers and that all of your arguments are straight up wrong doesnât mean that we are being elitists. I wasnât even insulting you in my first post but then i further read your following posts and you did nothing but attack the others who are correcting you.
Itâs also funny that you are calling us elitists when you make statements that the Proâs are that ignorant to work Wright around, but you can. You think you are the only one who has seen these so-called âpositivesâ from Wright? Killer_Kai, J Wong, Chris G and allot of tourney/pros have studied various characters including Wright, so please stop thinking that you know more than they do. Shoryuken is being elitists? What Irony.
I see a lot of teams poorly designed this way unfortunately. There are a number of chracters that are strong at holding a lead, or playing an even game, but they struggle to make big comebacks on their own usually because of an inability to pin characters down to receive mix-ups.
Taskmaster is a good example of this kind of character IMO. Heâs a very strong character with great damage, normals and flexible specials, but I wouldnât want to be playing from behind with him.
If you put these types of characters in your 2nd or 3rd spot, these situations will come up and youâll be at a disadvantage for it. The benefits of having that character in that 2nd or 3rd slot better outweigh that disadvantage.