Viper can too.
As you can see, that person’s argument was weak as hell.
I outright said that I was merely copying-and-pasting older arguments and acknowledged that some of the information would be outdated. When your response to this is “OH SO YOU’RE SPREADING MISINFORMATION”, you’re either blatantly trolling or are outright stupid.
I think you misread. He said IM Wright, which is Investigation Mode. Unless you are talking about a different post.
It’s hard to tell in this thread…all the posts seem to bleed into another unless it’s a wall of theory fighter text
Who mentioned anything about being “broke”?
I am simply trying to identify ways to accurately portray characters in a tier.
You said yourself that you cannot judge a character as an individual,
ie: Without the team or assist.
I was proposing that, to be more precise in explaining placement,
we also define what assist is helping them,
therefore no longer just judging them singularly
but as a team.
We COULD ask people to list the whole team,
but since not every character NEEDS two separate assists,
that would seem rather unnecessary.
How is this a bad thing again?
The fact that you have to get evidence is enough to limited him to their level. I didn’t say he was worse then them, but he’s in the same tier. Assist can cover you sure, but remember your opponent has assist to mount an offense/compliment his team.
Like I said, not unplayable. Just a weaker cast member.
Broke was just a term I was using…you’re misunderstanding. The way we’re portraying the characters now is fine. It’s the way it’s been done forever. Tiers aren’t the end all be all either, especially this early in the game. The most important thing this thread does is encourage discussion of the characters.
I personally disagree just because he has the potential (as in CM with good evidence or TM) to become good, even if it’s difficult to do so, while Tron/H-Ko don’t have anything that can make them truly good (Gold armor only gets you so far).
Either way, thanks for at least acknowledging my points and making real counterpoints.
Decent is a stretch, she gets air thrown way too much, easily zoned and susceptible to keepaway, bad mobility, bad normals, bad hit confirms…she ass
No problem bro.
If he had better mobility, his TM would actually be scarier. Unfortunately, he isn’t very hard to block if you somehow let him get there. Though the zoning chip damage could at the very least be irritating.
All this PW talk reminds me of a funny story:
So I was trying to make PW work, looking for good assists to back him up. Obviously Doom missiles was a good option here. For the second I wanted a nice projectile. Obviously I couldn’t pick Doom a second time, so after some hefty deliberation I went with Magneto.
Hopped online (lol) to do some matches to see how it was working… It worked okay, with a beam assist and missiles backing him up I could do some fun tricks to help build evidence. But it still left PW too exposed, so I decided to start running Magneto first and using shockwave xx smelter DHCs to gather evidence. As I started getting the hang of this new team… my win rate started to shoot up. I started thinking to myself “Holy crap, maybe PW actually does work if you put a good team around him”… 30 games later I realized I’d just been playing Magneto and anchor Doom. with a combo extension assist in the middle. :sad:
Deviljin hates Heihachi.
HEY LOOK ZERO IS BROKEN.
WESKER IS PRETTY DAMN GOOD TOO.
Tron is way better than people think, I wrote at length about it before here’s a summary. Solid high-low game, full combos off throws, 1 frame command grab easily comboable near the corner but somewhat harder far away, great hitboxs on her air normals (J.H is the worst one) and decent ground normals for pressure not poking, and a solid air dash which allows her to use her air normals as well as cross up, good wavedash, good damage, a good assist in bandit boulder which can be used very well with certain characters such as Dante, and all of this is solid and safe pressure with two assists (her place is on point). All of that being said I still think she’s at best bottom 12 but when everyone just assumes she’s unplayable well you’re just aren’t wright (sorry for the pun)
Meanwhile Phoenix Wright has the worst mixups in the entire game, bad zoning without cell phone, bad assists except a subpar and situational Missle, bad normals, horrible mobility, even in turnabout mode he’s still not very good, all he really gains is a good normal, a less terrible overhead, a great super that costs 3 meters, and better combo damage. Correct me if I’m wrong but outside of Order in the Court OTG? he can’t combo at all off air or ground throws either.
You’re the one who appears to be semi trolling, people argue one thing and you respond by insulting them or just generally whining people aren’t listening to the great dotsdfe, the reason people aren’t buying your arguments is because they aren’t good, even if everything you say about Phoenix Wright is true you seem to acknowledge none of his flaws and despite all the “positives” (which are actually just dolled up negatives) he’s still worse than everyone else by far. If you claim it works for you maybe it does but have you even played any high level players offline ever? Have you placed well in any tournaments ever? I’ve played Tron more than anyone else, and had good success with her including 3rd at a major, I understand and fairly evaluate the characters flaws and positives at high level play so when you say
it shows me not only do you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about when it comes to Tron but that in addition to her being your most played tells me you don’t know what you’re talking about and probably aren’t good when it comes to MvC3 peroid.
So…
We can’t value the characters as individuals,
but we can’t list what assists they are using,
and this is because "It’s the way it’s been done forever"?
I mean, if someone can change the definitions of the tiers as much as they want,
why not the way the characters themselves are portrayed?
I’ll stop talking about it though;
don’t want to run the subject into the ground…
Even then dont take 1 post an assume all.
TM can destroy assists, sitting there also leaves you open to throws which PW can combo from both air and ground leading to kills if the meter is there. It’s not a matter of just sitting back and watching the time tick away, you have to do something, PW has a lot of power in TM, it’s a mind game you have to make decisions in. You either sit there and take a throw, or stick out a poke/assist and risk getting fingered to death.
Alright, I’ll take the bait.
First of all, I know what Tron has. She has tools, but they don’t outweigh her flaws in that her damage output is mediocre (she needs two assists to get damage that other can get with one assist or none), her airdash is horrible, is unsafe on almost everything, and is outzoned by almost everyone. From your post, I’m thinking that you’re still playing Vanilla, so whatever.
Although by saying Wright has the worst mixups…I’m not sure you’re even playing Vanilla, actually. Yeah, because he totally has worse mixups than Arthur. Slip-Up is one of the game’s best overheads and combined with the low-hitting Maya, he can pull off solid mixups. Bad zoning? How exactly? Knife and Photo both have great coverage, Folder is amazing for defense or safe switches, Watch is an above-average projectile, and Vase is good anti-air. Bad assists? Again, how? A good low-hitter, a high-durability projectile, and a good combo extender/wallbounce assist…Yeah, no. Oh, and that’s ignoring his outright amazing supers in Maya (which beats almost everything in the game) and Order in the Court which is a good combo ender. No, his damage off of throws isn’t great but he’s meant as a zoner.
Now then, as for the rest of your post…Get over yourself. Please. I’ve seen you mention your third-place finish in almost every post you’ve made in both this topic and the previous one. I saw that tournament, and I’ll admit that I was impressed that someone other than me played Tron on point, but placing in a tournament doesn’t automatically mean your opinion is the only one that matters. And yes, I’ll readily admit that I’ve responded aggressively, but it really pisses me off that the tier discussion is primarily made up of calling anyone with alternative views a theory fighter. Have I done well in a tournament? No, but I’ll be sure to let you know when mid-Missouri starts hosting majors. I’m willing to bet that I’m not the only person here who hasn’t entered a tournament…That doesn’t make my opinions invalid. I’m offering something that you disagree with, so say that you disagree, don’t insult my game. Seriously, your mentality is the most elitist thing I’ve ever seen, and that’s saying a fucking lot.
PW is the bottom tier. stop the bitching… Tron and Hsienko are better than him. Stop derailing/trolling the thread. :lol:
Edit: lets move on from this topic. Dotsdfe’s attitude is the same as the people at gfaqs when you give them reasons as to why PW is low tier.
Do i have to retort? He thinks Ironfist is below Phoenix Wright.
LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN! Learn the correct term!
Zoning is controlling the planes and forcing your opponent to do something in your favor. Zoning equals controlling the space via the classic example of Ryu who zoned using hadouken to force a jump into the SHORYUKEN, that is an example of zoning. Keepaway equals to running away while whittling the opponent down.
Strange equals zoner, Hawkeye equals keepaway.
Arthur has the insta overhead in Ultimate. You know J.S and Arthur also doesn’t depend on luck to set up his keepaway game for those good pieces of evidence.
missouri has a scene tho 
u have no excuse to not be actually trying this stuff against real life people