Well Dorm has plenty of tools to deal with people taking to the skies so I’m sure he can’t be too afraid of Wesker wanting to up there when he can go up there and bring him back down on his own pretty well. Especially with meter.
Yeah, honestly he’s B+ to A- in my eyes. He’s solid overall but doesn’t have any “cheap” shit outside of Gimlet, which is scary but is kind of lacking overall for Damage.
I fucking love his Level 3 through, most entertaining level 3 to watch by far.
Tier whoring will continue to exist whether this topic was made or not
A+: Zero, Wesker, C.Viper
A: Dormammu, Dante, Vergil, Strider Hiryu, Dr. Doom, Firebrand, Jean Grey
A-: Magneto, Spencer, Hawkeye, Felicia, Wolverine, Morrigan, Trish, Amaterasu
B+: Akuma, Storm, Doctor Strange, Skrull, Taskmaster, Sentinel, Frank West, Nova, Jill Valentine, X-23, Deadpool**, Chris Redfield**, Captain America
B: Ryu, M.O.D.O.K, Shuma-Gorath Spider-man, Arthur, Haggar, Viewtiful Joe, Rocket Raccoon, Iron Fist, Thor
B-: Chun Li, Hulk, Nemesis, Iron Man, Ghost Rider, She-Hulk
C: Tron, Phoenix Wright
D: Hsien-Ko
Just one change, The Squid is a pretty decent character. Nothing special but he can upper screen-whore pretty effectively.
U forgot Hulk!!!
Tier lists are pretty funny though. People severely underestimate anything under A-tier.
The thread also has the title “competitive theory” so anything discussing the game competitively concrete or potential wise works.
Plus, it seems like we are getting significant re-balancing on the Capcom games every 8-12 months, which is infuriating in and of itself.
I just want to say that as a person that mained and competed with Viper all throughout Vanilla and can do all the technical garbage…she definitely has her fair share of problems and with all things considered is certainly not top 5 in this game. Closer to top 8 IMO. Alot of them are not problems considering her tools and possibilities, but rather her overall usefulness in a tournament setting against people with high level Viper experience.
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She’s predictable at far range and just flat out not as good as some other (strong) characters just outside of midrange and close range. I consider them blindspots. Good players know about ex seismo…and pressure accordingly
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Seismo spam is not an effective tactic against anybody smart enough to not stay grounded and get zoned or stand by their assists at Seismos ranges. Unless you mod your stick or play on a hitbox the risk/reward of spamming anything more than 3 seismos is not in her favor at all. You hit? Cool now what? To hit confirm off of one into a full fledged combo requires either meter (now) or specific conditions and no random shit on the screen. Oops you got a H. TK because of lag/missed timing/nerves…ur dead. Not worth it. Seismo into something that can’t be doubled as a defensive maneuver is Russian roulette with a magnum at any range but far.
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On point is her only real position. For being such a great character she’s not worth saving with a DHC or raw tag IMO unless you really feel your momentum is destroying your opponent. Tagging her out to the 2nd slot almost always comes back to bite you in the ass (poor DHC’s, surviving a incoming corner mixup and reestablishing momentum, underwhelming assists ect). As anchor she’s pretty scary actually, but their are better…cheaper anchors that don’t require meter to intimidate. So that brings me to the conclusion that you have to go ape shit with her on point and try to get as much damage as possible and be willing to let her die in the process, which leads me to my last point…
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There is too much shit on the screen when playing point viper when it’s 3v3 for her to truly shine while grounded…which means you’re pretty much gonna have to take to the skies and tri dash/ gimmick her way into an opening unless she has Vajira, Coldstar, Hidden missiles, Drones or triple shot to lock them down without knocking them down to give you a chance to set the pace.
With all of that being said…she’s still arguably got the best tool belt in the game and can make a lot happen if the stars are aligned. Top 8 only because she can get out of any situation. Top 15 for sure. Seriously there are too many solid, more versatile characters in this game to call Viper “S tier” based on possibilities and/or hype factor. She’s like the Kobe of MVC3…Can beat anyone in a game of 1 on 1, but refuses to pass the ball and gets cock blocked by triple coverage lol.
Maybe Wesker was a bad example, he really doesn’t need to be in the air to deal with Dorm at all. Samurai Edge alone is pretty good a shutting down Dorm’s grounded options from across the screen for the simple fact that it’s so fast and Dorms specials are so slow. One bullet and Wesker is in the range where Dorm doesn’t want him to be. Once Dorm manages to get something on the screen is when Wesker has problems.
Anyway a lot of this is dependant on the assists involved so imma just shut up now.
so all but one of the listed posters have tasky above trish is it generally agreed on that this is how most people feel it is?
@alzarath you have storm a bit higher then most what makes you view her so highly?
Basically some who dont like tier list are the ones that would really like the bottom mid low tier characters to get more spot light etc and not make the general public spam the top tiers. That being said as everyone knows that tier list is a really good way for the average player to see how hard he will need to fight in tournaments if he decides to play competitive etc and have an idea of why some his low tier team is getting dominated everytime.
This thread also helps with that seeing how we talk about those low tier characters etc…
Edit: Yea explain that to me Task vs Trish…
Even though Trish can S.jump an lay traps why would the Task player try to fight his way through her traps? Why cant he just s.jump straight arrows which trish can’t do, he can even
S.swing an angle which arrows he wants to use. His Shield + dash shield i dont even need to explain, I would put him above trish not by much but definitely over her.
Good to see you post again. I remember your posts from Vanilla about Viper/MODOK and of course the old days of SFIV Ibuki.
Now…this is pretty much what I was waiting for as far as Viper in general. Someone who understood Viper but didn’t think she was S tier. I really think it’s important to get both sides on her since a lot of the last thread was agreeing on her being S tier or not.
The only reason she’s S tier in my list is because I think Capcom was crazy to more or less buff a character that was already teetering on S tier in Vanilla. It just doesn’t make sense to me but maybe Capcom figured she just has these certain issues regardless that will keep her balanced. She just really doesn’t have too many real weaknesses that I see past dealing with aerial opponents and in general players like Chrisis already assume when tiering Viper that she is fitted with one of those AA style assists so she can control aerial movement without having to exert too much on her own. Especially since assists like Strider assist force hard knockdown from the air that Viper can convert from hella easy as long as she’s in range.
I honestly thought she was going to get the nerf hammer hard but she barely got touched and already had very little trouble IMO vs. any but the best of the characters. Not to mention her matchup issues were and still now are mitigated by being a walking TOD character with solid close range normals that great for frame trapping them into a mix up.
If you could shed some light as to why you feel she’s not top tier despite her more or less seemingly being buffed, it would be interesting.
Trish does better in more matchups than Tasky. Tasky does well against everyone, but Trish has the ability to shutdown a lot of characters. If tracking teleports weren’t in the game, she’d probably be S tier
Dorm is very good but not the highest. Reason being, he needs a Beam assist (and preferably an OTG assist as well) to run at max potential. Characters like Zero and Wesker don’t give a fuck if they have a beam behind them or not, it just adds to their deadliness.
Also, Deadpool on the assist tier list needs to be at the very least A, because Quick Work is just as good as Felicia’s low assist and Katana-Rama is the best OTG assist in the game besides Wesker’s due to its good speed and forced Ground Bounce.
Im not saying you are wrong… but what low does MODOK have besides his slow crouching M or H (dont remember which one it is). Whenever I play MODOK I just block high and it works pretty well. I have always seen him as a high/throw character.
Taskmaster and Hawkeye are probably the only characters in the game that are solid enough that I don’t feel they need really “cheap” shit to be considered good. They both have a few cheap things but they force respect with their solid options. Also, over half the casts worse matchup is hawkeye … that says a lot … He gets a lot of rep at a high level for a reason.
A at worst with the way current matches are playing out.
S Tier (Top) ***
Zero, Viper, Wesker, ***Dante
***A+ Tier (Near Top) ***
Dormammu, Doom, Magneto, Firebrand, Vergil, Hawkeye, Felicia, Wolverine, Spencer, Trish, Phoenix (Jean Grey), Strider
A Tier (High)
Nova, Taskmaster, Dr Strange, Morrigan, Spider Man, X-23, Jill, Super Skrull, Deadpool, Akuma, Frank West, Storm, Amaterasu
***B Tier (Mid) ***
Ryu, Captain America, Hulk, Haggar, Sentinel, Ghost Rider, MODOK, Chris, Thor, She Hulk, Iron Man, Iron Fist, Shuma Gorath, Viewtiful Joe, Rocket Raccoon, Arthur, Nemesis
C Tier (Low)
Tron, Hsien Ko, Chun Li
F Tier (Worst)
Phoenix Wright
S to A are tournament staples or SHOULD be tournament staples based on their strengths. B are veritable competitive characters but require to be in proper teams to avoid obscene match up problems. Some B tiers can actually own characters in the A’s (like Ghost Rider vs Wolverine), they are in B tier because some match ups they really have few options against despite even having strong assists on deck. C tier are there because they are definitely worse than most of the characters in the game and within just these 3 Chun Li is the better of them and could be B to B- tier with high execution. Phoenix Wright IMO is the worst in the game… he might as well not be in the roster.
This is the first legit anti Viper S tier post to date. Everything up until here has been “I saw Viper on a stream and she didnt do well”.
Taskmaster is cheap but his cheap shit is very subtle…well aside from Shield skills option select grab from 30 yards away. Oh and st.B