I can’t wait for Strange and Hawkeye play to evolve beyond them stacking up meter, and throwing out random SoVs and Gimlets.
“Marry me with my money”
hawkeye play has already evolved to Triple arrow! Triple Arrow! Net Arrow! Piercing Arrow!!!
My stupid opinion:
Spoiler
no order within tiers.
A+ tier: zero, wesker, firebrand, magneto, dante, dormammu, viper, strider -10
A tier: taskmaster, akuma, hawkeye, super skrull, vergil, doom, morrigan, jean grey, jill, Amaterasu, Trish -11
B+ tier: spencer, felicia, storm, deadpool, wolverine, ryu, MODOK, nova, chris, dr strange, spider man - 11
B tier: frank west, sentinel, viewtiful joe, captain america, x-23, haggar, she hulk, thor -8
C+ tier: hulk, nemesis, arthur, rocket raccoon, iron fist, iron man -6
C tier:hsien-ko, phoenix wright, chun li, tron bonne, shuma-gorath, ghost rider - 6
I really think you are spoiled on good choices in this game
IDK though not a lot of characters can provide you with what Vergil provides you in the #2 slot. Plus if you have him on point with Wesker OTG and some sort of horizontal assist for teleport mixups he is one of the scariest characters in the entire game. A good player touches you and you should die and it isnt hard touching people with Vergils godlike normals. He can do like 600K off an air throw with Wesker and he has a basic air loop too which does some great damage and gives him that air mixup game similar to Wesker. He has great basic mixups on incoming characters as well which I still see almost no one using.
Oh yea havent even touched up on him in DT yet.
I’m pretty sure Hawkeye’s gameplan involves him filling the screen with shit. XD Too many people think Gimlet is some win button thingy he has.
LOL pretty much the best quote in the game.
My favorite part is the borderline racism towards Native Americans. I mean the Indians boss name is Chief WIGWAM… “Get read for Pow-wow” Lol at least they werent trying to be subtle.
With assists covering him he has some of the best teleport mixup in the game, none of those characters have that. Deadpool is the closest having a teleport but it has the misfire problem. The Raccoon also has a teleport but can’t go overhead with it and it has 8 frames more recovery than Strange’s (13 frames more than Strange’s H-teleport), it’s punishable on reaction easily if not covered properly (Strange’s is too but not near as easily) and it’s a bigger risk considering Rocky’s life. Jill has a teleport but it is only accessible from Feral Stance and has a vulnerable window (it’s more like a better version of Zero’s Hienkyaku). With graces out you can throw out a FoF to bypass the need for an assist to cover Strange’s teleport.
Strange also provides 2 incredible assists and 1 above average assist, none of those characters provide more than one really great assist.
Spell of Vishanti punishes almost anything and is a guaranteed DHC from any super in the entire game and can be XFC’ed for a kill combo (that can also kill 2 characters at once with no inconsistency issues whatsoever).
Perhaps most importantly having Strange in the 2nd slot gives you access to a 1-frame fullscreen THC to punish absolutely anything. It doesn’t provide the mixup cover of Ammy’s but that doesn’t invalidate it at all. At the same time you can make any super activation completely safe from projectiles by DHC’ing into 7 Rings. Very very few supers in the game that aren’t level 3 provide that. 7 Rings can also be XFC’ed into a very easy 1-million damage combo (in XF1, more damage in XF2 or 3). Is there any other character in any fighting game who can kill you instantly for pressing any button no matter what button you press, no matter where you are on screen, and no matter where he is on screen?
Bolts of Balthakk is a very very good beam in the neutral game and needs to be used more. It starts up 3 frames faster than Doom’s Plasma Beam and recovers at the same speed of Plasma Beam-L, and each Bolt has the same high durability of Mystic Sword-M. On top of that, the stagger means that you can very easily confirm into SoV XFC into a dead character (or 2).
Strange’s biggest weakness is having his assists snapped in and be left to fend for himself.
Less important but still worth mentioning:
Mystic Sword M cleanly beats the vast majority of non-super projectiles in the game (but not all of course). Eye of Agamotto is like a self-assist that protects you while you set up your projectile game or graces. Strange also does big damage easy, those characters can do big damage but not quite as easily - it shouldn’t matter but it usually does.
I agree with that. I just think his surviability is lower than other characters. He doesn’t have a great way to deal with incoming mix ups. His adaptability is also lower. When you play in large pool play, you often times have to address a lot of unpredictable situations. We can’t think strictly in terms of combos and damage output. I hope that makes at least some since, I know I didn’t explain a lot…I’m watching Denver and Pittsburgh play xD.
Yeah, ever since he lost that assist, he got moved out of ? Tier and into Bottom Tier.
PW is still trash, but hell, he’s not a hopeless case.
I dont claim to be a Strange master by any means, but I do have some experience with him (one of the only new characters that I actually enjoy) so I want to touch up on a few things you said.
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You are absolutely correct about him having some of the best teleport mixups in the game. Anyone with a tracking in front, behind, or directly above allows for 50-50s at almost anytime on the ground with an assist. FoF setups are very nice but I think they are somewhat overrated.
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I have to strongly disagree that Stranges assists are Incredible. I think they are above average at best. EOA is probably his best but I think it is crazy overrated by a lot of people. Sure it has some nice uses but it isnt anywhere near the actual incredible assists up there like drones, tatsu, missles etc.
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BoB is a very RISKY beam. A lot of characters can blow it up pretty easily and should only really be done at full screen against characters who can teleport behind you. Hell people who block the first part in the air can still get below the 2nd part to punish you. This is a very matchup based projectile and definately isnt nearly as spammable as something like Dooms beam.
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Yea Stranges weakness is being by himself where he is pretty bad.
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Correct about the Mystic sword M and EOA being crucial to his neutral game. EOA is easily one of his best tools and I dont use it as nearly as enough as I should
Overall, Strange with the right assists has some of the nastiest space control in the game and can pretty much stop an entire team from doing anything IF he gets his momentum going. However, he does have some pretty bad matchups (characters that like to hang in the air alot Zero, Trish, Firebrand), very susceptible to rushdown, and is pretty free as an incoming character.
My problem with Strange’s assists is that they all have the huge start up and recovery of hidden missiles…but they aren’t hidden missiles. Making them pretty situational as assists.
Im watching the game too lol. But I do understand what you are saying, to me however, those weaknesses still dont nearly outweigh what he brings to the table. As far as adaptability goes, I feel he is a character that most others have to adapt to him. He is still going to lose against your Firebrands and Zeros due to his lack of mobilty, but then again you always have DT to help you out in those areas.
Before I talk about Strange, I want to talk about each other characters I listed.
Morrigan: She can fill up the screen faster and more effectively than Strange (though Strange is a bad match up for her due to SoV and Rings). Her approach is extremely good with fireball + dash, and her normals are very good (j.H and j.S are especially good). In a spot besides point, you have Dark Harmonizer which is exceptionally good for certain characters. You also have access to two DHC’s that are pretty invincible. Not really arguing she’s better than Strange, especially since Strange is a good counter to her, but he doesn’t have a significantly greater purpose than her.
Sentinel: Under appreciated character as of late. On point, his flight mode and large air normals combined with assist can control a large amount of the screen and Sentinel can approach pretty quickly. On incoming character he has a few deadly options that can lead to dead characters, but they’re nothing compared to the upper echelon of characters. Against certain characters, he can lock down the screen with assist + spit + sentinel force + cr./st. m and jumping m and h. Outside of point you get an extremely safe DHC, an extremely good assist, and an anchor that can run through a team.
Jill: The case you made about her pseudo-teleport is slightly negligible because an assist will definitely be involved. She also has an overhead, a command throw, great normals, a great level one hyper for utility, and decent cross over options. Execution can’t be counter against her, I just don’t think that’s fair if we’re giving Viper S-tier. Jill is a character I think is better than Strange simply on the principle that her rush down can be literally unblockable, plus her THC options give her great utility similar to Strange.
Rocket Raccoon: Admittedly, I don’t know enough about RR to talk about this. I just see a lot more potential in him as time goes on, but I could be totally wrong. Rocket Skates just look so good.
MODOK: Though I think people tend to overstate the great rushdown MODOK can have behind something like Drones, but I’ve seen some of it in action and it’s good. Jamming Bomb is a tool that can really lead to the death of a character, especially considering that it can be used in conjunction with snapbacks apparently. I don’t think he’s better than Strange, I just think he has some similarly effective toolsets.
Deadpool: Pool can transition between keep away and rush down faster and more completely than any character in the game. The teleport cancel for his guns is really underutilized right now, but if someone takes advantage of it, they’ll be able to control a lot of the screen. His teleport has 0 recovery frames (IIRC) and is pretty damn effective for mix ups. He has a good overhead and great normals. Katana-Rama and Quick Work are both pretty good assist, but nothing as good as Stranges. Overally, Deadpool is on the same level of Strange IMO once he’s used to his full effectiveness.
My issue with Strange is the position of his teleport and the slow start up of his specials. Luckily, certain assist can really make Strange dangerous due to him being able to protect them with Rings. Lastly, remember that I didn’t say Strange was worse than these characters, just not significantly better.
Well I only wanted three characters higher than him. That being Trish, Felicia, and Ammy. Those three characters have a lot going to them. They may not TOD on their own, but they add some pretty invaluable things to a team that Vergil doesn’t exactly add.
A lot of this tournament pool stuff I talk about never comes up. I think it’s an important part of why you don’t see certain characters as much. Adaptability, consistency, and options available. Of course, if a really top player decides they want Vergil to win, he will. He has the necessary tools and he can rip through a team easy.
doesn’t pool have self mixups too? cap i don’t know if he does i don’t think so though
can’t cap convert full screen off of any hit as well without the use of assist? deadpool probably can’t i have no clue
i don’t play deadpool so i don’t know about his damage but i’m pretty sure cap can nearly kill almost anyone as well
I’m not saying akuma isn’t good but is he really better than cap or deadpool i don’t know about xf3 but i’d assume akumas is better then both
but if beams are the main threat with him in xf3 i’m pretty sure cap and pool don’t have to worry about them (charging star/teleport)
i guess what i’m hung up on is the fact that he’s a whole tier above them when i think they should be in the same tier (fyi i don’t play any of them so i maybe totally wrong but if I am wrong it should be easy to prove)
@dj yeah i know you did it in alphabetical order but akuma is in a different tier then cap and pool
I know she has rush potential (like I said with tatsu that shit can get scary especially if she can instant overhead you with j.L ). I peg hole her into runaway because in most matchups that is what she should do until she can setup her advantage. When I play against Trish I just find her easy to block/escape except when under a lockdown assist so I don’t know what else to say.
Reason I don’t consider her rushdown special is who doesn’t have easy mixup option under drones / tatsu? I mean every character in the game just jump over you after the second drone and setup an ambiguous crossup then anyone with a crossup or 8 way dash can setup an emptyjump low/Throw/late jump attack mixup. So while Trish does well under lockdown assist EVERYONE does well in that situation even Vergil but Vergil can lock you down himself with RoundTrip creating those situations without assist or just add assists into the mix to make it that much more difficult to deal with. I mean if she was like wolverine where I literally can’t react to a 3 way mixup that’s one thing but the only things she has that aren’t telegraphed are IOH or Low.
100% right peakaboo is better than rapidslash. Hell I think it’s one of the most underrated assists in the game. RapidSlash is awkward on hit or block it gives massive payout but in exchange you have to protect the startup.
Her unblockables realistically have to be setup after combo’s which is just spending meter to do what other characters would have finished with the actual combo itself which is the reason I rarely give them a lot of weight. Trish has solid DHC options though Vergil’s are probably better since they lead to more damage.
Ammy has more utility then Vergil straightup. Her issue is none of her options are overly powerful. Kinda like Storm a lot of good stuff but no big damage, no single godlike respect option, or straight-up BS.
Also Vergil has fullscreen teleport mixups into higher damage then Trish can pullout not counting an unblockable reset. I keep trying to say Vergil is bad because I feel I have to actually outthink my opponent in some matches rather then derp impossible to react to setups, but then I call EM disrupter and teleport IN FRONT of my opponent and TOD him because he thought it was a crossup and think to myself … “Ya … there’s my derp”. Also TOD have a lot weight when they come off solid options Doom, Zero, Dormammu, and Viper are other examples of this syndrome just what makes them overall better is the options that lead to the TOD.
Dude, there is nothing fabled about an unblockable off of drones lol
one huge issue im having with strange atm is hitting somebody who is already in the corner and thats really the place you want to be opening people up in
I think the team that really makes Strange shine is
Strange/Horizontal assist (beam preferably)/Space Control assist (such as Drones or Missles… anything that forces opponents to avoid or block it to give Strange time)
This way he has 1 assist to where he can call it and teleport for instant 50-50s on the ground anywhere… and the space control assists so he can set up Graces, clog the screen with EOA or do whatever he likes in his offense to basically stop you from being able to do anything.
My team I have been rocking lately for Strange is Strange/Chris (machine gun)/Sent (Drones). Probably my favorite team to play as it is the most fun for me. It follows the mold as I mentioned above.
Chris machine gun assist is a very underrated assist if you ask me, it is essentially a beam.