As an avid Hsien-Ko player who finds her viable in certain situations, there is no way in hell she’s above C Tier.
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[]Senpu Bu can give her readjustments if she can make it safe.
[]Her normals are just as good as everyone elses’. Converting off of them is usually a matter of complete luck. Whiffing them is a 100% punish and 9 out of 10 times a dead Hsien-Ko.
[]She has nothing to beat Advancing Guard, her jump cancel only works on hit confirm, Gong or Item Toss cancel is the same as using any normal.
[]Gong is incredibly strong and underrated. Unfortunately, gong has a ton of startup, sucks in the L version, is useless except to build up a gong wall in the M version, and has no angular version which would help her so much.
[*]With meter she can keep people out. Without it… Good luck building it.
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Ugh, I can’t go any further… I need a good cry.
Well, I mean he’s still a good character, but his neutral and defense are nowhere near what the other A tiers have. It’s just that when he’s got you caught, you might as well be dead.
Yeah that will change with time. It’s just at 5AM I didn’t feel like splitting up the best of the ok and the best of the worst and what not.
I’ll do another consensus after the next major and put it all together then with more of a gap between the tiers.
Some stuff. I think we need a D tier. Haggar and Iron Fist don’t belong with the likes of hsien ko and tron.
We should try to do some ordering within some of the tiers if possible Because current display says Akuma better then wolverine. no … just … no
Edit: ^ says was a bad choice of words “makes it look like” is more accurate
Well I can’t comment to much on felicia because I don’t have a competant one in my region but Ammy and Trish aren’t strictly better by any stretch of the imagination
Trish’s lack of comeback potential makes a lot of situations hard for her and Ammy in general is more easy to counter because she can’t come at you forever with a safe dash OS’ing a throw that beats every other throw in the game or one of the better j.H in the game.
Play a lot of good Trish and she isn’t that hard to counter and even Wesker beats her if he can force her to come to him (has decent life advantage). In an even scenario Trish wins a lot of stuff but in physical games her lame just doesn’t always work out and so she has to resort to this really easy to block ghetto rush down. I know she can come rushing in and with akuma and her IOH is pretty dangerous but even then her damage isn’t necessarily noteworthy. Once you remove the option of her divekicking from superjump height by chickenblocking it low to the ground she has to come to the ground in other ways and all those ways are equally baitable. Personally I think Morrigan is the new queen of lame in this game as unlike Trish she can dominate the lower screen space with Illusion and Illusion does enough chip to actually be a threat.
Vergil’s Weaknesses
- Reliance on Assists to complete his game. While an OTG increases his damage by 200-400k+ depending on the starter it is more optional then having a beam assist which is absolutely necessary for him to use his teleport mixups.
Corollary: You get different mileage out of him based on his teammates, but luckily all his best teammates are high tier (wesker, mags, dante)
Corollary 2: More assists you give him the better so his team placement can significantly affect his effectiveness. - Mistakes require meter to correct, but the fact he can actually CORRECT his mistakes with meter in my book is a plus. Not many other characters can just be like oops :use one meter: yay I’m at advantage again!
- Difficult character specific combo’s to maximize damage.
Note: Not really a weakness but reason a lot of people aren’t seeing solid vergil play in addition to most people not understanding how to get the full mixup potential out of RoundTrip.
Vergil’s nuetral game ass? You must be joking me. Literally nothing anyone puts on the screen can’t be beat by st. H unless it has invulnerability. He is also one of the few characters that has real anti-airs. Assist calling is dangerous at anything less then fullscreen because of his extreme range which lets him keep really strong assists like drones off the screen pretty much for free along with H judgement cuts.
Pushblocking in general isn’t that big of a deal. Safe string close cr. L -> st. H is what I use as a blockstring because it’s pushblock safe and I can cancel into M cut afterwards if pushblocked once or if pushblocked twice H cut and everything works out.
people do realize pushblock is like … baitable right? It’s not some godlike ability that immediately ends pressure (well for the top tiers at least). Also pushblocking sets you up for free teleport mixups or allows vergil to call assist + RoundTrip to get that on the screen for free setting up self 50/50’s or if he has a low/overhead assist unblockables.
Vergil isn’t about long blockstrings so really more then 1->2->Special is just a bad idea with him as your setting yourself up to get XF guardcanceled. Judgement cut isn’t great as an ender but nonetheless EVERY blockstring should end with that or some sort of mixup involving assist calls.
Locals keep bitching at me because they find pushblock completely ineffective against Vergil so that complaint is confusing to me because again your whiffing a half screen move … I can’t help but think that’s yours/auto-pilot fault. His best strings are from L -> H’s because his M’s have similar/identical range to his L’s.
The list is in alphabetical order per tier so Akuma is not “better” than Wolverine. Nobody is really better than anybody in the same list really. The issue is more so he just wasn’t voted as better enough compared to Wolverine for Wolvie to go into the A plus tier.
hsien ko and** phoenix wright** are the same tier as** iron man, haggar and iron fist? ** is this tier list a joke or something?
you all either need to split up the tiers more or ditch half of the people who voted, b/c anybody on the planet can tell you that is wrong.
That’s just the way it is for now. I put up a very basic tier list for now just to get the ball rolling and then in a month I’ll have tiers that are more specific amongst the lesser characters. The point is though for a basic S, A+, A, B, C none of them are that much better than the other. Iron Man was was probably the equivalent of a B minus and PW was maybe closer to a C minus but at that point they’re both around a C tier for a basic list.
You’re right, it’s appalling that Wright is ranked as low as those clowns.
Oh lawd…
LOL.
I’ll just leave the bottom of the barrel fighting up to the people who want to argue it I guess.
ALSO the one character I was afraid people were going to flip out about hasn’t been discussed yet so I’m pretty comfortable with this list until the next consensus.
Who is it Doom, Wesker, Spencer or Strider?
Probably Firebrand.
My guess would be Strider.
Off topic but GomuGomu, did I play you recently on PSN? I remember a similar name and Iron Fist.
You’re thinking of Trish too strictly as a keepaway character. This is a mistake nearly everyone makes. Her rush down is not ghetto by any stretch of the imagination. Her box dash and tri-jump are both really effective. She has Wesker’s j.S, Wolverine’s Dive Kick and Magneto’s j.L essentially. Trish can use assist like Drones, Tatsu, Shopping Car, etc. just as well as several other characters for offense, and she can come up with some terrifying results. Her knockdown game is tremendously over looked also. Round Harvest unblockables or Round Trip + assist can be terrible to wake up to if you aren’t packing something invincible. Trish’s runaway isn’t really based in projectiles, it’s based in traps. Those traps are admittedly disrupted by teleports, but air traps help mitigate that. So, without the lead, she has way more options than you give her credit for. With the lead, she’s well equipped to keep it. Also, she offers more utility than Vergil. Pekaboo in my opinion is a better assist than Rapid Slash, and Round Harvest offers as many set ups post-DHC as Spiral Swords does.
Ammy has more tools that most characters in the game do. She’s the second swiss army knife of this game (maybe the third, after Viper and Dante).
Disc: Great strings, Solar Flare counters are especially good in particular match ups, nice jumping H,
Glaive: Huge range, huge jumping H (better for range than quick a quick overhead like Disc), a dive kick, thunder edge is safe,
Rosary: HUGE jumping H (really just for spacing), Cold Star is fantastic with assist + stuttering,
Overall: Paper is create for safe strings and screen control, Slow Down makes all of Ammy’s match ups easier, Okami Shuffle helps shut down specific match ups and has great utility as a THC, huge airthrow, solid damage, Cold Star assist is more valuable than Rapid Slash.
Felicia is weaker in the neutral game than Vergil, but her mobility, safety, and command grab give her some of the scariest rush down in the game. Kitty Helper allows her to set up self-unblockables, and her air throw range is HUGE for resets. She can self OTG off any throw or command grab and convert it into solid damage and good resets. Rolling Buckler is also more valuable than Rapid Slash.
I’m not talking down what you said about Vergil at all, because it’s mostly true. He’s a solid character, and one thing he does better than these characters is make sure that your are 100% dead when he touches you. These three out class him in utility and match ups IMHO. Like I said earlier, all these characters are pretty damn good, so saying “so and so deserves to move up over so and so” isn’t really insulting that characters abilities.
You probably did, your name looks familiar and I do play IF. Are you from the UK?
TIME FOR SOME… OPINIONS!
>>>>>OPINIONS<<<<<<<<<<
It seems like you guys are so adamant on Jill being B. Why not A? She clearly has the tools to be A.
So how did Tron end up C tier anyway, I’d like to hear it since she literally has nothing the other C tiers can offer in terms of tools except having more health (whoop dee doo).
Yep, from the UK. GGS again your team was a bugger! Was like 6-5 or something at the end. Barely get any competition like that on PSN.
Let me know when Marn starts doing real Zero combos.