Dark matter cancellations are one of the few ways Dorm has to extend his combos outside of the BBCS chain.
He can extend as well with fly unfly but dark matter enables the jump loop. With Chaotic Flame’s damage scaling increased, you just obliterated Dorm’s damage potential off of mix ups.
LOL @ Dark Matter canceling being all of Dorm’s gameplan. Vanilla anyone?
(I love when people spout this shit about a character and have that character as their avatar. It’s like me saying, "DANTE DESERVES VANILLA HAMMER BECAUSE HE’S IN MY AVATAR.)
So if you really think half the shit you wrote is true, why wouldn’t you want it to stay as it is? What a great time to be playing the game.
People complained about Spiral in MvC2 but that didn’t last, neither did Cable. Let us Morrigan players have our fun before it all gets figured out. This is the same Scrub talk that got Sent nerfed.
It’s fucking bullshit that people are calling for nerfs like this on SRK. This place is no different from Unity, Eventhubs, ect al.
Step up, create some tech, play the game, and figure that shit out. Bunch of broke back school boy bitches whining and complaining. Nothing more. The thing is, people like you will always find something to complain about. If it’s not this, it’ll be the next most over powered thing.
You people would have utterly ruined MvC2, if it had come out today.
"If he wants to lame the entire goddamned world out, let him. Maybe it’ll teach people that it’s a Marvel game and you can’t just pick whoever the hell you want and hit some buttons. Viscant taught us that last year. Chris G is teaching us that this year. A patch isn’t going to change this. It’s just going to make good players do something else that’ll make bad players whine.
All that said…the entire Marvel series is made of stupid bullshit. Storm made a billion characters straight up unpickable in MVC2. You wanna play Wolverine in MVC2? Tough, your opponent controls the weather. How about Ruby Heart? Have fun never hitting the opponent because she’s HAAAH HAAAH HAAAAH-ing 89 feet above your dome. The only thing that makes UMVC3 different from any other Marvel game is the fact that every character, upon hitting the opponent, can either 0 to death a character or hit 4 buttons and 0 to death a character. In a 2 out of 3 setting revolving around a team-based game, this can help people occasionally get away with things that they can’t get away with in other games. And now we see even THAT slowly disappearing because Chris G is forcing people to think before they put a team together.*
How fucking DARE he."*
So, your answer, and others like you, is instead of playing the fucking game, it’s to hope the shit you don’t like gets nerfed. This is the epitome of scrubdom. There is no other way to say it. **
Why do people bring up the Sentinel nerf while also not talking about the big Phoenix, Wolverine and Dante nerfs?
Yeah those characters were very unjustly knee jerk nerfed right out of the game…
True. In my nerd rage I forgot about them.
Nothing more should be changed. Lets give the game some damn time. It hasn’t even been out that long.
Out of curiosity, for those of you saying “don’t fix anything,” how many started playing fighting games with SF4?
Just wondering who’s simply parroting what the old school guys are saying without any real context of their own. The game has some very fundamental flaws, the “just deal with it, the game will evolve around the bullshit” argument is tired and and lazy. I love MvC2, but what made it a good game was not the fact that so few characters were viable. It would have been an even better game if Capcom had come back later and made some meaningful balance changes (not talking about the tweeked Ps2 and Xbox console versions as those were ass).
Capcom has an awful track record with this kind of thing, but that’s not to say they can’t eventually get it right. They can take a cue from Arcsys or SNK or Sega.
Looking at the current you gotta ask yourself, at what point will you suddenly learn to block a berserker slash more than 50% of the time against a decent player? Let me know when X-factor suddenly becomes a non-issue and you cheer for someone who tears through an entirely team in 6 seconds with their last character even though they were getting they asses handed to them the whole match. Let me know the next time you give your opponents props for landing a TAC combo on you and proceeding to kill your guy for no meter while building 3 bars in the process. That should be your measuring stick because things like that should not be acceptable game design. Seriously, go play dice if that’s more up your alley because what makes a good fighting game doesn’t seem to be what interests you.
I want a well thought out game that does not appeal to the lowest common denominator at the expense of being a good competitive fighter. Now you can argue until the cows come home as to what that might be, but the whole point of this thread is to discuss these things. Dismissively and thoughtlessly saying “leave it alone, it’s fine” is utterly moronic.
Finally, I know that I indirectly started this discussion, but I gotta say, some of the suggested changes are very poorly thought out.
Some general gameplay balance stuff I think should happen:
X-factor nerfed.
[LIST]
[]Level 1 = current level 1 X-factor with 1 change. Can take chip damage
[]Level 2 = Level 1 X-factor damage, level 2 speed, no chip
[*]Level 3 = Level 2 damage, level 3 speed, no chip
[/LIST]
DHC/TAC/THC/Assist tweaks
Assist Tweaks
Cannot use the same assist character in the same combo more than once. If a character TACs DHCs or tags in, they are done for that combo and can no longer be tagged, DHCed, or called for an assist as long as there is a combo counter going.The combo starter can TAC once. The combo starter can then be DHCed back into but that locks out the character he/she just TACed into.
EX: Team trenchcoat. Vergil does a combo, uses Wesker OTG assist. Wesker is now locked out of that combo including team hyper. Vergil TACs to Dante. Vergil can now be called as an assist or DHCed into during Dante’s combo, once he is called he cannot be called out again. Wesker is still 100% locked out of Dante’s combo*.***
TAC Tweaks
TAC directions now fully commit you to a direction. Meaning you can’t mash S and a direction anymore. The first direction you hit with S on defense in a combo is the direction you will automatically counter. This removes derpy countering of “strategically” (lol) placed TACs. If Phoenix is on your team, you pretty much press left/right and S immediately to prevent meter loss OR you can guess with the next change…
TAC Counter window increased by a large margin. Capcom had claimed they gave the TACs color to make players visually counter them. Then we realized they were full of shit and there wasn’t enough time to register what color is being shown on screen to react. To remedy this the window to counter the TAC is increased drastically. Combined with the above change this forces players to no longer mash out a direction but to actually pay attention to the colors. In addition if you do successfully counter the TAC, you slam the opponent down as if your character did a jumping S and it sends the opponent down for a hard knockdown. You cannot combo off of the countered TAC. This forces the game to a reset as the offensive player’s guess did not pay off.X-factor TAC tricks such as Anti-Phoenix strat will still work if you guessed right the first time.
DHC Tweaks
Whiffed supers can no longer be DHCed**.** This is pretty obvious bullshit and gives players who failed a chance to make up for it. But they already have X-factor to save themselves.This also removes “DHCing to safety” and forces the defensive player to actually think of a good way to get in their other character.
Blocked supers have a reduced DHC window. Blocked supers will now have a 50% less window to DHC. No more Wesker getting in every last hit of maximum wesker before DHCing safely to another character. The DHC must occur within the first 50% of the super. This means for supers like Maximum Wesker the second you see your opponent is blocking, you are forced to DHC early or X-factor or eat the punish. Even if your opponent lets go of block after the first half of the super, you still cannot DHC as the only reason that happens is random crossups. No more mashing a super and going flowchart “Did it hit? Yes? DHC AND KEEP GOING! No? DHC TO SAFETY!”
Level 3 Supers Tweaks
Level 3 Supers now scale OR Level 3 supers do the same damage in X-factor. I have 2 options I’d love to see with level 3s. Either scale them in combos or they do the same damage no matter if they are in X-factor or not. The fact is, the level 3 supers that can be comboed into are just as easy to combo into as a normal super. Either that or the damage gets normalized over x-factor meaning level 3s may do the same as a level 1 in x-factor. I would want either of these to be implemented.
Cannot combo off of Level 3s OR continued combo scales heavily. One of the stupider things I’ve seen is that the characters with comboable level 3s can STILL COMBO after finishing it. Once you level 3 you’re done. Save it for the kill. Or once again, scale the damage heavily, like drop the damage to 25% or less after a level 3.
Throw Nerfs
Combos off of throws scale much more heavily. If you combo off of a throw the damage gets reduced more. Hitstun remains the same.
Air throws cause less knockdown time. So if you air grab from a high height, you get no combo after if you need to land to combo.
I know none of these changes will ever come to fruition but its fun to wish.
zero: take out buster cancelling BS, give him back his old buster with hard knockdown. more scaling on his lightning loop and shorter sou genmu duration
wesker: remove glasses buff, give him back old counter super.
vergil: scaling on his spiral swords. increase the recovery on his teleports by at least 2 frames
viper: viper takes 2x damage during focus attack. optic blast (viper beam) has less durability. ex moves cannot cancel into one another.
she hulk: give her back her beta air dash or old slide back. make her not a heavy character. basically, revert back all her nerfs
sentinel: 1.1 million health. slightly faster normals. buzzsaw kick, missile launcher and splash from cota. make his jumping m controllable like in cota too. in return, make his drones assist slightly weaker.
storm: let her call assist during float, slightly decrease damage scaling on her normals so she doesn’t do ass damage.
iron fist: dive kick, command grab, genei jin
ghost rider: long command grab with chain, projectile nullifying chain, some sort of air special
shuma gorath: speed boost. full screen mystic stare, faster mystic ray, mystic smash cannot be pushblocked. mystic smash combos are more reliable
arthur: give him a dash and an air dash to make up for having no dash for the 2 games hes been in
phoenix: 400K health
jill: revert back her nerfs (floaty attacks, diminished hitbox)
hsien ko: a real air dash would be a good start, much faster projectile toss and recovery
morrigan: lower damage and priority on soul fist. (i don’t want to kill astro vision BS)
iron man: give him back his old air dashes and knee dive. two button smart bombs.
:lol:
oh, i forgot this:
frank west: give him a fuckin roll cancel.
imagine roll cancelling well pretty much everything. roll cancelled zombies, tools of survival, slide kick. viper, eat your heart out.
Man, if Ironfist had a command grab, everything gets fucked lol.
If Morrigan has to lose her meter gain in AV, let her keep the power up when she tags out (this might make soul fist assist more appealing, harmonizer will remain same). Capcom should buff her rushdown and make it stronger ( and more appealing) than her zoning. I always prefer Morrigan as a rushdown character.
I hope to see soul drain tech soon.
Mix-ups, X-Factor, and TAC combos may have a “random” factor to it, but there is no evidence of these things attributing to bad game design. Last time I checked, the same damn people keep making Top 16.
Two Wolverine 50/50’s (that are eventually punishable) aren’t as bad as MvC2 75/25’s, and those mix-ups couldn’t even be punished. Defensive options have only progressed in the Vs. series, just to appease the casual player.
XF adds a dynamic to UMvC3 that other games don’t have.Taking out key characters and exposing team compositions or enhancing a usually non-viable character with XF3 are all things that haven’t been seen in other fighting games. Those that are frustrated with it are usually those who don’t know how to take advantage of it.
Your TAC example is highly exaggerated. Even Doom/Magneto TAC’s usually end with a Level 3 no matter how much meter they build in order to 100%.
The metagame needs to be more fleshed out for any balanced changes to be made. Anyone ever wonder why snapbacks were nerfed across the board? Or wondered what “Doom tech” Seth Killian kept raving about, hoping Clockwork would be the first to find it? Or why Jill was considered dangerous enough to warrant significant nerfs? A metagame usually involves a strong tactic getting figured out, creating counter tactics, with those counter tactics being countered themselves. These days it’s just a strong tactic followed by a shitload of bitching and crying.
Fuck Vergil and Zero, I want to see fully fleshed out technology with complex characters like C.Viper, MODOK, Rocket Raccoon, Firebrand and Strider. There are players less capable than the pros that do amazing things with these characters. I still feel we’ve only scratched the surface of UMvC3, because IMO there hasn’t been a dominating strategy or team composition that has swept tourney results. All I see is team variation, skill, and hype.
Leave the game alone for now, it’s fine.
My problem with talking about nerfing Dorm’s dark matter self cancel is the fact that Capcom most likely won’t nerf anything that specific in that way. Usually they just do stuff like nerf hit boxes, or frames or damage. Hoping they take away specific stuff like cancels on his dark matter is just stuff that will most likely not actually happen. If they gave it to him he’s going to basically keep it at this point.
Yeah all some people are trying to say is that in the end we’re not going to get any of this stuff we’re talking about. After SFIV I’m just much better at learning to accept Capcom games for what they are simply because I would like other games than Capcom games see the big light in tournaments. On top of that most of the “issues” people have with the game top players are starting to overcome any ways.
People are learning ways around the XF issue and although TAC’s are good…there’s still enough characters that can just flat out TOD you any way where at best it ends up being a 66 percent chance to continue a combo as opposed to a 100 percent chance.
From there the game presents a ton of characters that are very viable if you build a solid team with them or around them. Not to mention the game has both really strong rushdown and zone and has a lot of elements that I really liked from the more old school games any way.
If after a year this has turned into the most popular and hype game for the FGC…clearly Capcom didn’t do THAT MUCH wrong. Yeah there’s all these “issues” with the game and it is still the game in the FGC while SFxT is struggling to stand on its feet. If that’s not an achievement…I don’t know what is.
lol upback.
Edit:
At this point they could probably give Iron Fist a shit load of great stuff, and he’d only end up mid-tier. Still though, from playing him for 7 months I genuinely would like:
A proper S obviously. Something Wesker class i.e. safe, huge hitbox both vertically and horizontally, really quick, no fucks given. This would also double as having a real anti-air outside of Volcanic Roar
A proper air to ground normal. If you ever jump in at someone, you’re going to lose to pretty much anything, and at that point you’re free to throws as well. Fuck, like as said above, just give him a dive kick with throw OS.
More hitstun on his normals. You see top tier characters who have S normals which pretty much cause soft knockdown from the top of the screen, Iron Fist has trouble even converting from normal jump hits
Perhaps S could cause ground bounce outside of combos to give him proper SJ conversions
A real low L
Throws at SJ give you maybe 5 frames or so more times to get :atk::atk:~:qcb:+:m:
Change his hyper motions. If you’re moving forward and you have a forward input in there when your opponent’s hyper freeze starts, you cannot use Iron Fist’s invincible level 1 at all, because the forward from before the hyper counts in the input. Spencer gets free Bionic Arm counters all day and is a strong character, Iron Fist can’t use his if he’s moving forward and he’s bottom 5-10 (or perferably just fix that input crap)
Even then, he’d still be free to zoning and keepaway AKA the things the top tiers are good at.
Did I say anything about results being inconsistent? The pros place because they’re good at predicting stuff and, to a lesser extent, have good reactions, but if you tell me that you can reliably block any of the stuff I mentioned that any retard can set up and make ambiguous not by virtue of proper spacing but more as a result of their own ineptitude, I will call you a liar. Berserker Slash is not easy to punish without blowing XFC (and no, this is not a pro for XFC).
I don’t want to get rid of mixups, they should be hard to block. I want to raise the skill bar to put your opponent in those difficult positions to begin with. It’s too free right now.
In a way, Capcom has struck gold because they found a way to make lack of skill especially threatening in this game.
There is a fine line between difficult to block mixups that have to be setup and canned unreactable mixups that lead to death. The latter is a monumental fucking failer in game design put in to appease the mouth breathers.
My TAC examples are not exaggerated at all unfortunately, if anything I downplayed what you can do. You can build well over a bar before launching and Doom can do well over 400k meterless without even counting assist extensions at the end which no one even does yet.
See this is the problem, most of you lack even the most basic understanding of the game to infer why a game mechanic is problematic or ok.
Go back 6 months and most of you were saying TAC’s were fine. Now that people are finally harnessing the utter stupidity that comes with removing HSD after the TAC, we can finally see the true potential. Do the TAC supporters still think they’re ok?
As for XFC, whatever “dynamic” and extra depth it may add to the game is overshadowed tenfold by the utter retardation of 6 second 1 on 3 comebacks consisting of a grand total of 12 button presses, instant meterless TOD’s on command from any situations, increased meter gain always guaranteeing a super at the end of your combo no matter how bad you suck and of course the addition of air XFC was a stroke of genius in Ultimate.
And to your not-so-subtle allusion that I don’t know how to deal with XFC, well how would you know? Maybe I do know and I can look at it a bit more objectively?
To hell with the Capcom apologists, if you keep accepting shit without voicing your opinion, that’s all you’ll ever get. (Thankfully people dropped SFxT like the turd that it was so there might be hope.)
From what I remember on the forums any way, people were complaining about them HARD long before the Doom/Iron Man combo extension stuff. They were complaining about the basic shit that barely built any extra meter of damage.
If anything I’ve noticed the exact opposite. Constant whining before…but being more accepted now.
In the end it’s still a 66 percent chance at a combo extension instead of just outright killing them with Zero, Viper, Magneto or Vergil…or hell even Wolverine if you count Fatal Claw stuff. TOD’s are still worse because there’s no guess your way out of a TOD. It’s guaranteed unless they somehow drop it.
LOL look at all these people crying about DM teleport. Dorm is one of the most solid fair “top” chars of this game. At this point if your still getting hit by DM teleport then simply put your a scrub , that shit is air throw city and is so easy to see coming because most dorm players just throw it out there at first oppurtunity of a DM being thrown.
Dorm is fine as he is IMO , and really comparing vanilla dorm to umvc dorm is so dumb, umvc3 dorm is so much more creative and well rounded as a character , are u people forgetting vanilla flame carpet? and vanilla cr m? also dorm had no flight combos outside of tac’s in vanilla. So yeah , if u have c viper as your profile picture and your crying about dorms DM teleport then please cry me a river , plus dorm has wave dash/ teleport combos off dark matter now which bring alot of depth and fun to the character.
Also i love how the guy whos crying about DM teleport uses a team that consists of Viper/Vergil/Strider LOL
Let’s not get ‘personal’ pls. Also this only shows why companies that are good at balance (to a degree when they’re not doing stupid shit on purpose), Namco, can’t listen to competitive players unless those players no longer play.
Also I’m surprised that people who say Viper and the like will break the game propose so few changes for them