UMVC3 Patch/Balance Discussion *NO PATCH...but word is out of possible ALL CAPCOM VS game coming*

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1

Alright so we know there’s a lot of rumor going around about possible balance changes for the game.

We also know that there’s a small, minute, insignificant chance that Capcom might change things revolving the basic mechanics like toning down or removing XF, changing the button set up, how the hit boxes work, how teleport cross ups work etc. BTW that’s your cue to stop dreaming and start playing Skullgirls or MVC2. Wishing MVC3 was more like your favorite game is too much 2010 SFIV BS that just derails the tier thread way too much.

We know shit might be going down so I made this thread so it can be discussed specifically here. The tier thread is to discuss stuff that is currently coded in the game and generally the potential for how the characters and players will unlock the game in the future through said code. It’s not to discuss core gameplay changes that have 0.1 percent chance of ever happening. Although it’s not as bad…I would like to keep balance discussion to a minimum in the tier thread also unless it becomes official.

NOW GOGOGOGOGO.

EDIT: What I feel will most likely happen. Will be interesting to see how much of what I estimate is correct if this so happens.

[spoiler=BUFF/NERF PREDICTIONS]
I pretty much like the game the way it is other than Astral Vision being a full retard super for only burning a meter and Zero being balanced by a crack addict.

Yeah the game’s got durpy stuff and whatever but the top players especially have learned to adapt to a lot of it and seeing Fanatiq block all of that cross up shit J.Wong’s Vergil was doing on reaction was inspiring to say the least. It’s just a game where you have to be playing it and just have to be able to have that gut reaction to block setups when you’re in those situations. Otherwise of course the first thing is to make a team that allows you to avoid setups in the first place.

I have Skullgirls and VF5 FS if I wanna play less durpy games any way.

Most of the stuff I wanted changed/fixed outside of XF2/3 still being a bit retarded already got fixed in Ultimate. It’s actually pretty surprising how much of the stuff I was hoping Doom, Morrigan and others would get that they ended up getting (which is funny cuz they both work really well together now).

So instead…I’m just gonna list what I predict Capcom will most likely change (more specifically nerf cuz that’s all they do) regarding the cast.

Bold = Anyone that gets discussed a lot regarding their strength that Capcom will most likely address very carefully.

Akuma: Might possibly buff his health to 800k. Probably gonna keep him the same otherwise.

Ammy: Eh…probably gonna stay the same minus maybe a slight damage buff. Probably the same otherwise.

Arthur: Might actually get a dash. Probably some extra buffs to his projectiles. Probably not though.

C.Viper: Probably have a damage scaling reduction or just overall damage nerf on some her moves. Will most likely stay the same otherwise. I’m pretty sure Capcom is certain she doesn’t need any actual buffs.

Captain America: Doubt he’s getting much. He got a lot of buffs already and Capcom probably won’t do too much extra to him to keep with the whole “make everybody unique” philosophy.

Chris Redfield: Probably gonna be the same. Might even get a damage nerf just cuz Capcom nerfs.

Chun Li: Most likely gonna stay the same. I wish they would improve her projectile game just a bit more but…they gonna do them.

Dante: Most likely gonna stay the same. They might actually buff his damage a bit…but probably not.

Deadpool: Same.

Doctor Strange: Might get a forward/back air dash. Could possibly get safer frames on normals and projectiles. That’s about all I would think he would get though.

Dorm: Most likely will get nerfs to hit boxes on his normals or the damage on his supers. Probably get a nerf to the speed of f+H. Probably staying the same other than that.

Dr.Doom: Will most likely get a Wolverine style nerf to his dive kick hit box that still won’t keep it from being very durp. Might get a damage reduction.

Hidden Missiles is too important to have in a game where if you get touched, you die or get really really fucked up. Don’t expect any changes to the assist because the assist isn’t relevant for at least 3 or 4 seconds any way and plenty of characters have moves that push them past the missiles. I’m pretty sure Capcom realizes Morrigan is most of the problem and will just leave the rest up to people playing smart against the assist.

Felicia: Most likely gonna stay the same.

Firebrand: Might get a damage buff. Otherwise will probably stay the same.

Frank West: Same.

Ghost Rider: Probably will get a damage buff. Might get chip damage normals as he was originally rumored to have.

Haggar: Same.

Hawkeye: Might get some buffed hit boxes or frames on some of his normals. Otherwise same.

Hsien Ko: Hopefully gets a speed increase. Maybe longer duration on armor.

Hulk: Probably the same.

Iron Fist: Will probably get improved hit box on launcher. Will probably stay the same other than that.

Iron Man: Maybe another buff to some of his hit boxes and maybe his dash. Might get other insignificant buffs. Very likely he won’t get any changes as I’m sure Capcom probably feels we’re just missing something with him. He was the most switched around character in the game pretty much. Even more so than Dante. You don’t do that much changing unless you’re confident in your changes.

Jill: Possibly maybe a damage increase. Might get an extra aerial option. Otherwise same.

MODOK: Most likely the same.

Magneto: Might get another nerf to his gravitation special. Otherwise will probably stay the same.

Morrigan: Most likely will have astral vision nerfed in some way. Either it won’t build meter (outside of comboing into soul drain) or it will deactivate if she is hit. Or both.

Nemesis: Probably get buffs to the frames on his normals and possibly his supers.

Nova: Same.

Phoenix: Same.

Phoenix Wright: Might get damage or speed buff. Otherwise same. He was made to be gimmicky on purpose so doubt they’re going to do anything much to do that.

Rocket Raccoon: Could get a health buff. Possibly damage buff also. Other than that…same.

Ryu: Could possibly get the ability to OTG combo off air throw somehow without using super. Probably not cuz Capcom.

Sentinel: Could possibly see a speed or damage increase. Really doubt they’ll give him more health because they are most likely still scarred from all the scrub whining early on.

She Hulk: Possibly damage buff and fixes to her emerald cannon super. Other than that…same.

Shuma Gorath: Maybe a speed or damage buff. Otherwise same.

Spencer: Most like gonna have added scaling to some of his specials and nerfed damage. Speed on grapples will most likely stay the same. Same otherwise.

Spider Man: Probably the same.

Storm: Could use a damage buff but probably the same.

Strider Hiryu: Possibly a health buff, Ouroboros might end up lasting a bit longer (most likely not on both though).

Super Skrull: Same.

Taskmaster: Same. Might get a slight health nerf. Probably not though.

Thor: Same except maybe some from changes.

Trish: Same.

Tron: May get buff to her frames or hit boxes. Otherwise same.

Vergil: Most likely nerf to frames and hit boxes. Otherwise the same.

V.Joe: Same.

Wesker: Will probably get nerf to a couple hit boxes. Most likely will retain shades power up.

Wolverine: Might get change to scaling on some moves (specifically fatal claw super).

X-23: Possibly a health or damage buff. Probably not much else.

Zero: Nerf to damage scaling, hit boxes and MAYBE nerf to buster cancelling.

General Stuff: XF might get another nerf, TAC’s may actually be affected by scaling before you touch the ground…but don’t expect any other changes.

[details=Spoiler]

2

I can definitely see Spencer’s unscaled upgrapple being changed to normal in any possible patch

If the complaining keeps up about Morrigan then no-meter Astral Vision will happen too

3

People need to seriously keep in that mind that Capcom historically do not know what they are doing.

SFIV did not signficantly change from Vanilla, Super, AE, AE2012. If you hate SFIV, no patch will change how you don’t like it.

4

True, Capcom is very, very committed to their original designs, they rarely make changes beyond frame data tweaks.

The only announcement that would convince me otherwise is if the tell us ArkSys will be doing the rebalance.

5

Fix the stupid untechable throw shit pls thx

6

You’re talking about the Marlin Pie guard break style stuff?

7

What ever the bug is where the game treats you like you’re on the ground while you’re airborne and you can’t tech.

8

I only want a few changes:
[General]

  • Lower damage of XF even more. Decrease lenght of Lv.2 XF and Lv.3 XF.
  • Make TACs more reactable, maybe a little less than grabs within combos in BlazBlue (pretty easy to react to).
  • Remove the ability to call assits during knockdown roll.

[Zero]

  • Remove Lightning Loop (the more important nerf IMHO).
  • Remove Buster Cancelling (or at least, do not allow for Setsuizan xx Buter OTGs).
    or
  • Make all versions of Raikouzen slower in startup (significantly).

[Iron-Man]

  • Make cr.:m: push the opponent closer to you, both on hit and on block.
  • Make air-dash like Vanilla MVC3.
  • More hitstun on the last hit of Proton Cannon (more personal than anything).
  • Unibeam do more chip damage.

[She-Hulk]

  • Give her the vanilla slide.
  • Allow cr.:l: to be chainable.
  • Lightpost move being able to destroy projectiles (not sure if it already does).

[Strider, Akuma, Rocket Raccoon]

  • Bring Strider, Akuma, and RR to 800k health.

I don’t think Zero is above the whole top tier, but I just like having to work for my damage (like resets).

9

Iron Man needs a better fucking ground dash.

Its so infuriating to me that half the characters problems could be solved if he didn’t have such a shitty wave dash. It has to be an oversight.

[Iron Man]
BETTER GROUND DASH
More hitsun on ground and air smart bombs
Faster startup on all versions of Unibeam and Repulsar Blast
More untechable time after Repulsar Spread
Better recovery/more damage on proton cannon
Bigger hitbox on c.M, s.H and j.M

10

Buff Zero and Viper again.

11

Give wolverine back his invincible berserker slash.

12

Buff Viper. She still sucks because no one plays her.

Also, nerf Wesker because everyone uses him.

13

Damn everything must’ve been created by Marlinpie according to SRK logic… Like sentinel players haven’t been doing that shit since forever :S

-Nerf Xfactor again, seems like the only reasonable thing that Capcom would be willing to do

14

Now it’s the Sentinel player #342342 guard break. Marlin Pie is just the first person to make it really relevant with a point character instead of an anchor with sub par abilities on his own that won’t have an assist to back it up any way.

15

Bleh

Non character specific changes that would be nice:

[LIST]
[]no XFC
[]no TAC’s
[]different button scheme (no need to negative edge assist calls please)
[]2 button throws or make them more than 1 frame to mitigate retarded OS’s
[]Lose red life when DHC’ing to a character like MvC2
[]Completely remove ability to buffer inputs during super freeze.
[]give all install supers more startup and recovery
[]remove ability to call assists while rolling or tech flipping
[]combos starting with :l: prorate damage at least by 25%
[]change cross counter to alpha counter motion so it doesn’t overlap with reversal snap back attempts
[]hard tags no longer overheads
[]completely overhaul scaling system to at least minimum 20% damage for everyone while decreasing base damage on most normals (character specific considerations of course). This will add extra incentive to do longer combos and make basic abcxxsuper combos do far less damage.
[]reduce meter gain some more
[]Make mashed supers difficult(read impossible) to get full hits. Make them do significantly less damage than in vanilla if not fully mashed. Fully mashed = Vanilla damage.
[]Get rid of/slow down canned unreactable auto-crossup moves or somehow reduce the payoff/make them cost meter (teleports + assist and berserker slash are stupid moves, don’t pretend otherwise)
[]Put a bit of thought into who gets a full combo after a throw. Shit is completely arbitrary now.
[]Vastly reduce range on airthrows and increase height restrictions.
[]Overhaul lots of hitboxes, no more turning around 4 times during ground string, no more hitting characters in the air with your ass. Less disjointed hitboxes (even swords should be able to trade).
[]Start of round should not let you move. Some characters have way too much of an advantage at the start while others just plain suck.
[]Push back should be way further after teching throws to avoid the stupidity of “who can mash :f:+:h: the fastest.” Maybe give the person who initiated the throw slight frame advantage.
[]Revert assists to ignore HSD like in Vanilla.
[]Make it so assists take less damage, but are vulnerable much longer after they attack.
[]Assists don’t attack if point character is hit while they are called (like MvC2).
[]Make double tap dashes tighter so :dp::f: doesn’t make you dash if you do it too fast.
[/LIST]
I can think of more, but they probably wouldn’t be very popular, lol. (i.e. get rid of sweep into launcher please, shit is stupid and makes spacing chains a non-issue)

16

Ghost Rider:
-Chip Damage Whip Normals

Shuma Gorath:
-Throw invincibility on Mystic Smash

Phoenix Wright:
-Level 3 should be an instant kill

17

Nerf the shit out of Doom’s missiles, they should disappear if Doom gets hit. That assist is ridiculous and he already has 2 strong assists.
Give She-hulk her old slide and nerf Nova’s slide (he has too many tools already)
Fix Helm Breaker’s hit box, the coat shouldn’t hit and I’m also starting to consider that his version of Ouroboros should be nerfed so that they don’t cut through everything (or make it cost at least 2 levels to activate).
Nova shouldn’t be able to force additional ground bounces.
Give Arthur a ground dash.
Improve Chun Li’s damage
Improve Storm’s damage.
Give Sentinel more health OR make his flight mode as fast as his MvC2 version.
Give Nemesis more health and add super armor to more moves and improve his damage from DHCs.
Rocket Raccoon, Firebrand, Amaterasu, Akuma, Strider and X-23 need to have more life.
Give Super Skrull the ability to choose the angle of his dash like Amaterasu (Box dashing would make many things easier)
Thor’s Mighty Thunder should push the enemy away if he blocks (just like Magneto’s shockwave)
Give Iron Fist a real launcher and you’re good to go.
Fix Tron, I don’t know how, just do it.
Give Dr. Strange an air dash and improve his normals.
Fix Iron Man’s ground dash so that he can properly wave dash and give him his old air dash back.
Storm’s H normals feel awkward, make it so that they come out faster.
Morrigan shouldn’t be able to get meter when Astral Vision is active.
Trish needs faster start up on Round Trip and Low Voltage should come out faster. (Even tho SRK overrates her, she isn’t THAT good)
Fix Spencer’s damage scaling.

**Phoenix **
(I tried the health changes in H&H using the Luke Cage cards)
(making Phoenix more viable as a point character but at the same time making Dark Phoenix less extreme)
IF X-FACTOR STAYS IN THE GAME
-Give Phoenix 600k-700k HP and make it so that the cost for Dark Phoenix is 5 lvls AND X-factor, if DP activates, X-factor disappears
IF X-FACTOR GETS REMOVED FROM THE GAME
-Give Phoenix 700k HP and let Dark Phoenix activate with the 5 levels, so that you have to tag her out or use her healing Hyper to keep DP alive.

Hsien KO (tried some of this changes in H&H)
Make Senbu Pu cancellable.
Henkyo Ki should come out faster, have more hitstun and OTG properties.
The bombs should hit.
Anki-Hou should allow Hsien Ko to throw at least 3 items in a row with multiple button presses (kinda like Tron shooting servbots)
Her ground and air dashes should be faster and also travel a longer distance.
Give her the ability to perform a second jump.
Improve her overall damage or change the way that hit stun scaling works with her so that she can perform longer combos with her multiple hitting abilities.
Her swords hyper should come out faster and make more damage.
Crouching H should be a fast, long reaching slide just like She-hulk’s old slide.

Shuma Gorath (tried these changes in H&H)
Give shuma gorath the ability to cancel his air normals with a dash (believe me it makes a HUGE difference and makes the character a lot more viable AND FUN)
Make Mystic stare easier to connect, change its hitstun or something.
I don’t know if this would be broken but it would be cool to give him some sort of super armor when he uses mystic smash.

If I come up with anything else, I will add it.

18

Here’s my list of suggestions:

Buffs:
-Make Iron Fist’s :s: hit opponents in a knockdown state, or at least give him an alternate command launcher like Doctor Doom’s f.:h: Hard Kick. Make his cr.:l: hit low. Give him a double jump.
-Make Phoenix Wright’s cr.:h: hit Low in Turnabout Mode, make Bad Evidence never appear until after 3 pieces of Good Evidence have been obtained, so the player can choose between going straight to Turnabout Mode or trying to get their preferred pieces of Evidence. Generally put the less useful ones first. Make Cell Phone or Document come up later, for example.
-Fix everything about Hsien-Ko and Iron Man’s dashes.
-Give Iron Man his Knee Drop in the air, make it cause a Ground Bounce.
-Give Arthur an actual dash.
-Make She-Hulk’s Clothesline cause a Hard Knockdown against airborne opponents like it did in Vanilla, make cr.:l: Rapid Fire again, increase cr.:h: slide distance to what it was in Vanilla. Do something to make Lights Out! useful outside of being flashy, maybe force a wall bounce, for example. Also, two-way airdash. If Chun-Li can have one, so can She-Hulk.
-Hyper Armor and invincible start-up on Nemesis T-Type’s Biohazard Rush, invincible start-up on Fatal Mutation.
-Rimoukon lasts longer. More buffs for Hsien-Ko would be needed, but I wouldn’t even know where to start. I’ve already mentioned the dashing problem, but damn.
-Make Doctor Strange and Tron’s :s: at less of a frame disadvantage, -21 and -20 are ludicrous.

Nerfs:
-Make Zero’s minimum damage scaling much lower.
-Make Vergil less stupid, just change him in general to make him good, but not as dumb as he currently is.
-Reduce, but do not remove, meter gain from Astral Vision, maybe cut it in half while the clone is active.
-Reduce untechable time from Doctor Doom’s j.:s: and Nova’s air throw.
-Increase the start-up of Electromagnetic Disruptor.
-Make Wesker, Doctor Doom, and Storm’s :s: more unsafe on block.

General Changes:
-Reduce time that X-Factor is active for all three levels, and make minimum damage scaling even lower. Smaller damage and speed boost.
-More time to react to a TAC. Make the character light up before hitting, not after. This allows the player to see which way they need to counter, and give more of a chance to break out of the combo. It’s still better than what happened when you countered TACs in the earliest beta builds of Vanilla.

That’s all I can think of for now, if I think of anything else I’ll edit the message.

19

Typical stuff in here although when it comes to Iron Man…

What is this about fixing the dash SPECIFICALLY so that he has a better wave dash? Learn to plink dash like Wolverine. A majority of the cast can both wave and plink dash any way. Iron Man is just another character like Doom or Morrigan where you just don’t wave dash to power their ground movement. Figure that shit out.

The only thing you guys really want is faster action start up off the dash so you can apply his footsies a bit faster during the actual dash.

It’s cool that you guys want shit changed…but at least make sure you’re describing stuff that doesn’t just force you to step up your execution slightly to improve.

My bets are hidden missiles doesn’t get changed at all but Morrigan gets changed up instead.

20

Dear Capcom
Make sure that there are at least 4 or 5 characters who are better than all the others so I can continue to be a tier whore.

Sincerely

  • A Tier Whore