The intelligent posts above reflect my sentiment. Also I LOL at removing a crucial aspect of Dorm’s gameplan someone mentioned by nerfing Stalker Flare.
Also:
She Hulk’s lampost negates projectiles like Dorm’s normals do
Gets a two way airdash
Emerald Cannon forces a wallbounce
X-23 Can MFC ankle slicer(to allow her to combo off of her OTG)
This will allow her to combo off of her OTG which will open up team options for her. Also makes her MF combos more reliable.
Just curious on your thought process behind the Dante changes and removal of Dark Matter cancel. Remove shot loops and buff assist extensions? No shot loops would just nerf hammer confirms and combo videos really. I don’t have any beef with Dark Matter cancel since without it he’d just be a BBCS character. Dorm’s a prick, but he’s one of the more tolerable top tiers imo.
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Dante:
-Cold Shower fix to how unreliable that move has become at the end of combos
-Clay pigeon to reduce his meterbuilding (and damage slightly). Shot loops are not that hard.
Dormmammu:
-Dark matter cancel is excessive. He already has a teleport, he doesn’t need to be able to forgoe the whole, “assist” part of the assist+teleport mixup. At least not as easily as just 6C (Strange by comparison takes alot of setup, and Strider’s animals are not very good outside of setups.)
-Slower teleport, every character with a decent teleport, I would opt to slow down. This isn’t picking on Dorm
-lvl3 hitbox is just to make OTG into lvl3 more intuitive. It’s a very minor non-balance related point.
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i remember when people said sentinals assist would be destroyed if they dissapeared on hit lol, if you cant protect your assist long enough for the missiles you dont deserve them…
Doom would be fine if his assist got nerfed that way; a giant fucking robot sending out slow drones survived so Hidden Missiles can manage.
Superjump anyone?
I don’t know if you play this game at tournaments but that is one of the most basic yet effective strategies against Dorm that you will encounter.
Works pretty well against Dorm, you can also walk directly to dark matter to block it when Dorm switches sides. Seriously, you can even react to the screen moving.
By removing the dark matter cancel you destroy Dorm’s gameplan, Dark matter is used for many things like protecting yourself while charging dark spells, cancelling into flight in the middle of combos, and using Dark Hole or purification after DM for better zoning.
That specific change OBLITERATES Dormammu and it isn’t as easy to hit confirm in the middle of a match, if you want to confirm from Dark Matter using a teleport you need excellent timing while having a good position in the screen, the easiest way to hit confirm anywhere in the screen with DM is to cancel into flight and use a tri-dash but that isn’t a mix-up at all.
Not to mention, Dorm’s teleports aren’t that fast. I think you kinda rushed a little bit with that change because you didn’t consider how many things would stop working for Dorm. It is a lot easier to escape or block Dormammu’s mix-ups with DM than it is to block Vergil’s with Round Trip.
Cause Dorm was so terrible without the Dark matter cancel…
Yeah… no.
More constructively, use an assist.
There’s such a huge window to between the launch of the of all the missiles and the time they land compared to the drones which cover the horizontal space and reach the target much more quickly.
Plus, aren’t drones alot more durable?
If you ask me, missiles were meant to be more of a zoning tool, while drones were geared more towards offense, although both are plenty capable of either style.
Making it so doom missiles disappeared would cripple most characters not named Morrigan’s zoning game since that’s one of the only really powerful assists for that style of play.
You seem to be terrible at blocking that mix-up if you are using the word “excessive” for it or maybe you just play online… if that’s the case, then yes, DM cancel is excessive.
I didn’t say I couldn’t block it, why the fuck are you even going there, and then the good ol’ online argument. Especially since I don’t play this game online ever. So you know what, go fuck yourself.
My point was, Dorm is able to do shit that should take an assist, and you know what, it should take an assist. Everything you mentioned as “core” to Dorms gameplan can be accomplished with assists, and good team construction. That’s the whole point of this game. The Dark Matter Cancel gives Dorm some cool options, but it also makes him more stupid, and this game could really stand to be alot less stupid.
What this change would do is increase the risk for those options as a correct read/punish now has two characters on the line. But given Dorm’s already amazing toolset, this shouldn’t be a giant issue. It adds more risk, and in my mind, that is a good thing.
It doesn’t obliterate Dorm at all. He was extremely good before it was added, and that’s not to mention his other significant buffs from Vanilla.
I think Dorm is pretty cool. Hes heads on fire and he doesnt afraid of anything.
Therefore he should get more buffs. >.>
I like it when you’re mad :lovin:
For the record, I’m mad because half of your argument was:
-I suck
-I can’t block
-I play online
-I don’t know anything about Dorm
-I don’t play at tournaments
-I obviously didn’t think about what I said
The little conceited act just makes you look like an arrogant ass.
The other half was actually something that could have been discussed. But I’m obviously inferior to you for all those reasons that you know nothing about, so that is impossible.
Well, sorry for that.
Are we cool?
But really as far as the Dark Matter thing goes I’m fine with it because it gives him more combo-ability mid-screen and he doesn’t need to use assist + flame carpet abcs stuff. Plus it gives him a projectile (no durability but still) that he can use to cover the horizontal plane. Since all his other zoning methods are very risky. I think hes one of the better balanced characters. If anything I would just tone down his damage scaling a little bit so abcs relaunch abcs chaotic flame doesnt do 800k and make his H teleport not impossible to see while the opponent is in the corner.
I like your Ghost Rider avatar man. Nick Cage, best actor of all time.
LOL at the X23 buffs… .mabye i should just stay quite and let it rock.
Damage/Health buffs? she can do 1mil+ damage 2 assists 1 bar. easilly 800k+ with 1 assist 1 meter. There WAS a reason why they nerfed her health.
Talon L attack faster statup/hard knockdown? Cant hit confirm a combo from the air? she has tech that allows her to bring a character down from super jump territory with air M/H > down H > delay >M Talon attack > Air S > land and then can continue the combo by jumping, doing a loop, and then S for air combo.
MFC ankle slice to open up team options? THIS WOULD BREAK THE CHARACTER!!! If she could MFC Ankle slice she would be able to do a sort of Lighting loop combo without using a bar, gain meter, and kill the character. Her Crescent Scythe(uppercut) can bypass hitstun deterioration to a certain degree so with this update implemented, this combo would be possible: ground combo > air combo > L Talon attack > Ankle Slice > MFC > S > air.H > Crescent Scythe > L Talon attack > Ankle slice > MFC atleast 1 or 2 more times after which you would need to tiger knee Crescent Scythe after the S because air.H would cause them to get out of the combo thanks to the hitstun scaling. tiger kneeing the crescent scythe to allow 1-2 more loops might be unnecessary but you get the gist of what would happen if this was implemented.
So my advice to people on this thread is to stick to your characters or overly exposed characters that are regularly seen in streams seeing as how some might not have a full grasp of what some of the less played characters are capable of and what changing some of their properties would do.
Not really a big fan of this thread… but some of these ideas you listed are definitely are intuitive! I wish more people paid attention to this post.
as for my imput into balance changes to X23? shes secret top 10 already just that no one wants to pick her up so leave her as she is. Mabye extend the the hitbox on standing H? the hitbox on it is misleading when it barely reaches the tip of her claw and when characters like the Devil May Cry brothers and Dormmamu have hitboxes on their hitboxes.
DM cancel isn’t that bad. A lot of characters can crouch underneath it and being in the air pretty much nullifies the mix up plus gives you an opportunity to air throw Dorm. Plus Dorm’s teleport has slower start up frames than normal so it’s easier to scout out the teleport mix up. Dorm’s teleport mix ups really only becomes crazy with Disruptor due to how faster Disruptor is.
I also disagree that removing DM cancel would obliterate Dorm. He would still be a very solid character without it.
DM cancel isn’t as bad as Zero throwing out full screen lasers out of his ass that are projectile invincible, can be made safe and lead into a full TOD.