Seems having any issue with a title is whining.
Seriously dude, I know how much I love the Dread Lord and while I can see a slight nerf to his hypers, how is nerfing his hitboxes even an option? He hits right where the move seems to be hitting… yeah, his moves cross up BUT THAT’S EXACTLY the way they look, Helm Breaker hits where it shouldn’t hit, that’s something that needs to be fixed. Dorm needs those hitboxes to be able to open the enemy and have a good pressure game.
Dorm is fine and if anything gets nerfed, it should be the damage from Chaotic Flame, that’s it.
Also, have you seen Doom’s divekick on the PS Vita? The hitbox is fine, the problem is that people don’t block against Doom… seriously, stop dashing and stop using mediocre anti-airs whenever Doom is above you, just block.
However Doom’s missiles should disappear whenever he gets hit, that already happens with characters like Nova, Dorm (flame carpet),Sentinel (drones), Trish, Rocket Raccoon (traps) etc. It should be the same for Doom, the assist is broken as fuck, the missiles stay on the screen for far too long and can be easily spammed and it’s almost impossible to score a good punish without getting hit with them.
They have the following properties:
OTG
GTFO
Lockdown
Air control
Combo extenders
Chip Damage
Seriously? One single assist offers all that bullshit?? And you believe it’s fine the way it is?
The only way to punish that level of BS and make it 100% safe is to burn meter and get a full screen hyper. That’s ridiculous.
I LOL’d when somebody said that the assist would be destroyed if the missiles disappear, how about using the assist with a teleport or a side change? That is legit, otherwise, IT’S BULLSHIT.
Anyway, Doom has other awesome assist options, the problem is that Missiles is as braindead as possible.
My opinions on the possible changes are just based on what I feel Capcom might do. They’ll do anything to nerf a character and changing hit boxes isn’t off the table. Probably won’t happen but I can see it being possible.
See you can list all of this stuff about missiles…the issue is that the assist still is balanced by having an extremely long start up before it becomes relevant in the neutral. During that time it can get blown up by a lot of stuff and there’s a lot of characters that can blow up both the point character and the assist doing their basic run of the mill stuff. People will just need to create better start of round strats to deal with missiles.
It only gets close to overpowered with Morrigan ATM from what I’ve seen. A lot of other teams have to have Doom as anchor where he’s a subpar anchor at best to get a similar type of power.
Can’t wait for some Zero/Morr/Doom or Dorm/Morri/Doom shit to go down.
DJ making Morrigan out to become like a new age Strider/Doom or something. I can’t say that I don’t like the sound of that though.
Yeah and that’s only the beginning. There’s a lot of crazy good shit that won’t even have Doom on the team. Morrigan is the right type of character to control a lot of screen space and has solid defensive options without the use of missiles. She can carry herself without the assist very easily which will eventually lead to the rise of other oppressive Morrigan teams that will have the ability to kill you probably faster than Morrigan + Missiles does.
The slow death of Morrigan + Missiles is only one of the oppressive ways to kill people off with astral vision.
It isn’t the character using the assist but the assist itself.
Yeah morrigan is fucked up, but Doom as an assist is fucked up as well. Just sayin… not a single assist has that many advantages in the entire game.
Firebrand
Give Firebrand more health, I swear he dies like in one combo
Vergil
remove the crumple from his lv 3 hyper
Wesker
If your going to make him do 700k when he is in lv 4 x factor then lower his health to around strider’s at least
Arthur
give him a dash
Dormammu
make it so that his stalking flare can’t be used as a “chip-to win” move
that’s pretty much it.
Yeah true…but it’s still balanced by having big flaws that must be compensated for by the point character that can be easily exploited by a lot of relevant teams. If the missiles fired at you immediately on start up instead of flying towards the air…then yeah it would be much more of a problem. Overall it is balanced by needing to be covered by other hit boxes from the point character for a solid period of time for a fighting game.
There’s too many teams that people are coming up with that are already dampening the missiles assist EVEN on Morrigan teams. ** ECT was pretty much ripe with anti missiles teams among the WC players. **This is considering it’s already been proven that you don’t really need an anti missiles team just to fight the assist. Just somebody that can put pressure on the assist constantly from the start of the round.
It still has that pretty crippling weakness that most other power assists don’t have which is just having absurdly long start up to affect anything towards the ground or far and away in the air.
Morrigan herself isn’t really that fucked up. It’s just the super that has really fucked up properties. Considerably more so than missiles assist.
ITT: People who think Capcom makes sensible nerfs.
This was funny to read given how Thor’s Shockwave is like 10 times more unsafe than Magneto’s yet no mention was given to him.
Changes I would like to see in the game:
GENERAL
*Pushback increased after teching throws both in the air and on the ground
*Assist is not active once the player actually gets hit
*TAC changes. I would really love it if they make the TAC guaranteed but cost 1 meter and not remove/take meter away. But it’s not going to happen.
*Nerf X factor even more so that current XFLVL2 values are new XFLVL3 values in terms of time, speed and damage
*Point character shouldn’t go into hit stop animation if the assist character is getting hit
*No moving around before start of the game and no charging moves either
*Mashable hypers changed on a character to character basis so that values are more in line with Vanilla max damage values. Like for example, Storm’s hypers should still do about the same damage because she needs that damage but not someone like Dormammu or Wolverine who are already doing a ton of damage but then get even more damage because their hypers do a ton of damage when mashed
*Cannot call assists while tech rolling
*Raw tags don’t hit overhead and have slightly more recovery
*You shouldn’t be able to juggle assists by mashing on down + S bounce TAC
*No character should be able to teleport cross up in the corner
CHARACTER SPECIFIC (only going to list characters who need changes)
Arthur:
*If the Gold armor breaks he goes into soft knockdown instead of hard knockdown
*Gold armor can be replenished by going into Gold armor again
*An actual ground dash
*Improve start up and recovery on some of his projectile moves
C. Viper:
*Decreased minimum scaling on both normals and special attacks
*EX Seismo nerfed in invincibility and hit box size
*Increase the time before you can jump cancel a Siesmo
Chris:
*I would like to see a zoning option added to cover his blind spot
Chun-Li:
*Air dash increased in range and is now able to do a double dash which used up an air action. Can dash back as well
*Increased minimal special and normal damage scaling
*Normals that look like they hit low should actually hit low
*New move added Hazanshu that can be used in the air and causes a ground bounce on hit
*Fireball increased in durability
Dante:
*Grapple should no longer cause a tech in a single direction
Doom:
*Hidden Missiles nerfed
*Hit box of Foot Dive nerfed, shouldn’t have a hit box up to his neck
Felicia:
*Crossover counter for Rolling Buckler buffed to what it was in Vanilla
*Fixes opponent popping out of hyper when near the corner
*Kitty Helper does not interrupt own combos on hit
Firebrand:
*Unblockable swoop needs some changes to avoid guaranteed set ups especially against characters who are in the air as they can’t even CC out
*LVL3 buffed, it’s completely ass right now
Haggar:
*Gains new command roll or dash that allows him to by pass projectiles. Has some recovery to it like the Captain America Back flip.
Hsien-Ko:
*Too many to list, the character needs a full overhaul.
Morrigan:
-Cannot exploit flight cancel to perform a guaranteed TAC
Nemesis:
*Start up invincibility on LVL3 command grab, cause a ground bounce or stagger after connect for a combo
*Armor moves need to start up faster including on the assist
*Punching hyper needs completely start up invincibility and full hyper armor
Phoenix Wright:
*Too many to list, character needs an overhaul especially in the evidence acquiring mechanic
Ryu:
*Powerup Hyper lasts much longer
*Explosive fireball charges up faster
*Multi-Fireballs negate advance guard until the last one
*Gains single direction air dash
Spencer:
*UWG should scale properly
Vergil:
*Decreased max damage scaling on Spiral Swords
*Decreased durability on Spiral Swords
*Remove cross up from Dimension Slash hyper
*Reduce posterior hit box of Helm Breaker
*Remove Round Trip charge glitch
*Lunar Phase damage at max damage scaling reduced
*Cr.H should not cause untechable soft knockdown
Viewtiful Joe:
-Shocking Pink glitch removed
*RHK OTGs but very little hit stun after max scaling
Wesker:
*Glasses buff should be removed completely
*Rhino Charge invincibility buffed to Vanilla status but scaling is the same as Ultimate
*Normal counters buffed to have more active frames. Projectile counter has more range
*Remove cross up Phantom Dance hyper
*20K damage reduction on Lost in Nightmares LVL3
Captain America:
*More durability on Shield Slash
Dr. Strange:
*Mystic Sword L has a better hit box underneath the swords so it doesn’t whiff against crouching characters
*Less recovery on normals
*Faster Flight activation
*Cr.L actually hits low
*Better recovery on SoV so that he doesn’t get comboed in the air near a corner even after landing the hit
Deadpool
*LVL3 buffed, because it’s ass right now
Dormammu:
*3C0D can hit opponents OTG
*Reduce damage scaling on normals
*Some of his normals could be shaven slightly in terms of their posterior hit boxes
Ghost Rider:
*Some of the chain normals do block damage
*Chain of Rebuttal has a better hit box below it
*QCB + M is an actual command grab like Super Skrull
*Heartless Spire is special cancellable and the hit box improved so it covers the fire properly
*Yoga Flames can be charged to produce a traveling fireball that has good durability. Yoga Flame that aims downwards creates a fire puddle
*Yoga Flames and charged variations can be used in the air
*New Eat Chain variant that covers an aerial angle
Hulk:
*Faster Command grab startup
*Less recovery after ground throw, enough for at least a Gamma Tsunami hyper
*Throw of command grabs changed back to Vanilla status
Iron Fist:
*Double Jump
*Can do Rising Fang and Shoulder Tackle without being the 3rd Rekkas. Rising Fang can be done in the air.
*Crescent Heel has faster start up allowing for easier pick ups from air throws
*Cr.L actually hits low
*Chi’s buffed all around. Meter Gain Chi allows him to gain meter on whiffed Rekkas. Blue Chi gives his Rekkas 1 hit of armor. Red Chi increase the block damage from Rekkas
*Needs a dive kick
Iron Man:
*Air dash down/forward has much faster start up
*Aerial Smart Bombs have different trajectories depending upon the button pressed. All have the same damage.
*Smart Bombs have Vanilla status hit stun initially but have Ultimate hit stun at max hit stun scaling
*A proper ground dash/wave dash
*Return of his Knee Dive move mapped to j d+M
*Proton Cannon has less recovery and can be aimed upward removing the DP Proton Cannon
*Gains Warmachine’s Missiles hyper on his DP from MVC1. Can be comboed off of Repulsor Blast and does a ton of damage. Is safe because the missiles come down even if Iron Man is hit.
Magneto:
*Remove Repulsion guard cancel trick
*Assist version of Disruptor has same frames as on point version
*Reduce the hitbox on j.L so that he doesn’t cross up with that normal while tri-dashing in
Nova:
*Speeding Tackle hyper should be invincible on start up and retain projectile invulnerability throughout the yper
*Cr.L actually hits low
Rocket Raccoon:
*Increased hitstun on all normals
*Rocket skates recovers faster
Sentinel:
*Some of his normals sped up both in the air and on the ground
*Can refly without taking up air actions and can do it as long as he has frames left on his flight time
*Health buff to at least a million
She-Hulk:
*Some of the nerfs she got should be reverted or met half way like her slide, cr.L, Emerald Cannon, runner stance not calling assists, pushback after OTG, weight change
Shum Gorath:
*Needs considerable buffs
Storm:
*Lightning Storm hyper causes untechable knockdown if DHC’d out before the last hit
*Start ups on Typhoon, Fair/Foul Winds and Whirlwind reduced both on the point and assist version
*Lightning Sphere when charged turns into a slower moving but bigger much more durable projectile
Skrull:
*Needs more directions on his air dash
*His QCF hyper should be more aimable and can be aimed away to make it safe
Thor:
*Improve start up on ground normals especially the jabs
*Reduce the recovery after Mighty Thunder by a lot and increased push back
Tron:
*Needs a lot of buffs
Wolverine:
*Either remove Fatal Claw loop or reduce the damage scaling on Fatal Claw
X-23:
*Air Talon L attack causes a ground bounce when used in the air
Zero:
*Decrease damage scaling on both normals and specials
*Lightning doesn’t cross-up in the corner
*Lightning disappears after cancelled with Buster
*Posterior hit boxes on some of the sword normals reduced along with some of their active frames
Nice list, and I can agree with most of those changes, but one I absolutely cannot get behind is not allowing characters to move at the beginning of the round. Any particular reasoning for that?
LOL @ Missiles disappearing when doom gets hit, it’d instantly be one of the most useless assists in the game.
I would leave the game as it is, for the most part. I feel like it’s starting its genesis. It’s just now taking off the ground, people are getting serious, the best players are settling into what they think the best teams and strategies are, they’re adjusting to the game’s questionable mechanics and are learning hwo to manipulate them, and they’re ready for the journey. If there is one.
Marvel 2 evolved organically. Perhaps Marvel 3 should be left to do the same. Granted, it’s not as free-form and open to evolution as Marvel 2 (from what I take of it), so we should just enjoy it for what it is, if we’re going to enjoy anything at all.
Ah, fuck it. Who am I kidding.
Hsien-Ko changes I would be curious in seeing the results of
[details=Spoiler]• Faster airdash, faster startup and recovery on forward ground dash
• Give bombs a hitbox or make them a separate :qcf::s: command
• A way to combo off her airthrow. Perhaps a cr.:h: OTG.
• Same 2 items, Akuma Statue, then stun item rotation as Vampire Savior for fuzzy guards and corner mixups
• Slightly better scaling
• Not too keen on TRH anvil causing an earthquake knockdown like VSav suggested above, but since these are suggestions are for tinkering with, I’d like to see what the result of adding this would be.
• Pendulum Cancelable through :s:. Returns her to neutral state. I’m curious about the potential for stupid mixups, though. Would they be on par with what exists currently, or would they be Wolvie/Akuma Tatsu levels of stupid?
[/details]
In all seriousness, I do believe in what I said, though. Maybe it’s off; I would like to know if anyone disagrees and why. I have no authority whatsoever and will stop there, though, because any more would descend into the bourgeois “I know what’s best” syndrome whose name I’m blanking on right now that pervades this site and video game communities in general.
I think a few more people mentioned this change already. The main reason is that most people just walk up against each other and mash throws. Along with the walk speed of some of the characters, it gives some characters way too huge of an edge at the start of the round. Wolverine instantly comes to mind, coupling his walk speed, his insane up close normals, OS Dive kick and ground throw leading into an XF kill combo makes it way too easy to run a train on the opponent starting at 0 second. This is also compounded by the fact that even if you tech you are still within grab or jab range which makes it a dice roll game at the start. You can go back and watch the GFs of CEO with Justin Wong and Tokido, that basically highlights all the things wrong with walking before start of the round.
I forgot to add to that list that Nova’s red health mechanic should be fixed so that it only takes as much red health as it’s needed to power up the move to max.
Considering Marvel 2 had one frame c.L’s I don’t really see it being totally necessary to remove the start of round aspect of the game. There’s a lot of spacing mind games that are involved at that start of round event and it’s interesting to see how people change it up from round to round. You see Marlin Pie doing all kinds of different jumps and double jumps with Viper to get positional advantage at start of round.
I mostly share your sentiment. Everyone knows that the game has a lot of crazy stuff, but people have settled down with the fact that Marvel just throws a lot of powerful fast shit at your regardless of characters used. People are starting to suck it up and find answers to shit rather than blame Sentinel, Wesker, Phoenix, Morrigan etc. everytime they lose.
It’s to the point where people are finally using the game to fight the game like what should have been happening for the past year. Plus the 3 out of 5 format helps to give people time and opportunity to use more than one team as may very well need to be an option in the future against some players. ECT last weekend paved the way for the insight of competitive Marvel that is to be had in the future where there’s an actual grind to beat the opponent. You saw people adjust round to round and sometimes people would lose 2 and come back 3.
It’s what I’ve wanted the game to be for a long time and after a WHOLE YEAR of waiting and hoping it’s finally coming into fruition. The game’s “cheap” or “oppressive” nature actually allows for most of the cast to be very viable and it’s amazing to see stuff like She Hulk in top 8 in ULTIMATE. Not Vanilla…UMVC3. LOL.
As long as they add more pushback after you tech a throw, the start of the round stuff would be fine imo. I think it would also make sense if both characters couldn’t move until they hit the ground if they tech an air-throw.
Yeah, more pushback on throw techs would still keep the mindgames at the start of the game marvel has always been known for while preventing this shit.
[media=youtube]HBgQJoOaJcA[/media]
Well no good player is actually going to do that. You can just chicken block after the first tech to neutralize the situation. If you know they’re going to mash on f+H some more you won’t have to worry about the low hit jump trap any way.
It is something that should get fixed, but there’s already ways around the problem with simple techniques.
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