I completely agree, that’s why every Iron Man player has been harping that he needs a better ground dash.
He needs Rocket Skates!
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It doesn’t.
(Also it’s hyper armor)
Also, if Firebrand got 16 seconds of Luminous Body along with being able to build meter while in Luminous like he already can… yeesh.
Because Firebrand doesn’t need mixups to kill you, and guard break is a powerful thing in a game like Marvel 3. Zero/Vergil still have to make you guess, and it’s still possible to block their mixups. Granted he isn’t broken, but…that doesn’t mean you mindlessly buff him.
Remember the most buffed characters in UMVC3 are not the low tier at all. UMVC3 dumbest mistake is buffing characters that were already good to begin with. This ended up with Zero being more buffed than Hsien-Ko. This also ended with Iron Man feeling more nerfed than Wesker too.
Once again Iron Man is a better character than in vanilla, I will ague this to I am blue in the face. He’s still not good though, he needs changes the main one being a better ground dash.
While I agree Vergil and Zero are out of hand, I don’t think these are the proper changes. I don’t know much about Vergil, other than he was designed to be a fundamental and footsie based character, and then they gave him a sword. I don’t think Vergil is as much of a problem simply because he does have gaps in his game, but its some oppressive stuff.
Thats a whole different tangent though. Spiral Swords scaling doesn’t really change anything, I don’t think Vergils damage is way out of hand, and honestly, every Vergil player drops their sword loops anyway.
As for Raikousen soft KD removal, I think thats a poor way to go about it. Its fairly essential for many Zero conversions and combos, and jsut his general overall playstyle of being a pixie-esque character. I’ve never really felt that Zero was overly oppressive unless the player was capable of LLoops but I know his ability is far more deeply rooted than just his damage. If you want to remove LLoops though, you can just go with what many Zero players thought the original change was to stop the LLoop, and thats to change the timing between Zero and his shadow so that the loop will drop/not work.
I think it isn’t just the LL. He hits too hard using two meters as well. He needs something changed that will weaken his combo potential.
Saying the mostly drop it is poor reasoning, but if Vergil is going to hit that hard, Spiral Swords should not be practically invincible from everything except direct strikes on the head, XFC snaps, etc.
You’re right, he does hit really hard for 2 bars, but at least he can’t keep that up nigh-indefinitely. Unless you stretch your combos really far with double assist extensions, you’re going to run dry on the 2nd or 3rd character if they have a decent amount of life. As it stands though, off of any stray confirm, or any scaled hit, LLoop lets him just molest even the 1.2M health characters with no resources spent, thats what I mean by domination. I’d prefer if it just did less damage because Rekkoha damage is ass and I think having a LLoop do Fatal Claw esque damage would be nice as a reward for that execution.
The thing about dropped combos wasn’t my reasoning, it was just a side note. I just think Vergils damage is the smallest issue. If anything, you would lower the total unscaled damage he does, not SS, so you can reduce his meter gain. I think what really makes Vergil a problem is that he is 1) A footsie character with sword normals, and 2) Hes a meter dependent character, however hes his own battery. If you cut his meter gain you cut down on how dominating he can be.
Changing the scaling on his specials wouldn’t affect the meter gain at all, just the damage.
Right, but it would make it so he had to do more sword loops. Thus, a ToD would take more total meter.
I didn’t mean to be pedantic, but the 2 aren’t the same thing.
Take away the ability to call assists directly after recovering from damage. This whole tech roll + mash assist shit is retarded. Doesn’t have to be long period, just half a second where you can’t call an assist but you can raw tag or alpha counter.
but come on now zero doesnt deserve the Nerf, you Actually have to put the time in to learn how to lighting loop and buster charge switching Etc,if they wanted to nerf someone nerf Wesker or remove meter building on Astro Vision
Right, it’s just tough to go at it by destroying Spiral. Spiral is working almost exactly as it should, it’s just leading to way to many reps and damage than was intended.
It’s the same with Zero’s LL. Lightning and Soegnmu are behaving exactly as they are intended, and nerfing one of those is doing much more than nerf the loop. The problem is still the damage/meter ratio. Nerfing the minimum scaling will mean he’d need more meter to get the same overall damage.
If they’re going to nerf Vergil, at the very least they need to nerf the vertical hitbox of Spiral swords which currently makes it ridiculously hard to hit him out of it.
For Zero, I wish characters would drop faster after buster and lightning so the Zero player doesn’t have all day to confirm off those.
At least people are in complete agreement that those two characters need a nerf!
If this patch is more nerfs than buffs though its going to be really disappointing.
everyone keeps saying “this patch”…is a patch confirmed at this point, or is there at least decent evidence that there could be one? or are we still running with vague rumors and just general wishlists of buffs/nerfs? because if there really is a patch, I too hope it is mainly buffs for the mid/lower tiers and only very few nerfs to the top tiers
I’ll answer this, since I feel like I’m partly responsible for the creation of this thread.
Evidence:
-Filipino Champ talked about Zero getting nerfed in a “summer patch” some time ago.
-During one of Bum’s streams, once again several months ago, he talked about a balance patch for the game being planned for release after EVO. It was originally going to be released before EVO, but Seth Killian told them to delay it.
-This rumored list, which contains some other rumors we’ve been hearing about: http://www.hadoken.net/?p=5098
-Nitsuma is met with the Marvel office recently to “check up on everyone.”
-Nitsuma will be in attendance at both EVO and Super Battle Opera
And last but not least, this: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/jun/17/niitsuma-ultimate-marvel-vs-capcom-3-unlikely-be-balanced-year/
Whenever Capcom says they aren’t doing something it usually means they are, plus “not this year” probably means next year.
So that’s everything. Has it been confirmed? No, its still a rumor. It seems likely though. And this thread was created to talk about potential balance updates anyway, to prevent screwing up discussion of the current tier list.
I really like rumors/speculation of updates for games I actively play, so I really do dig this discussion though.
I’m not willing to believe this link on account of the Darkstalkers rumors sounding super-fake. Who knows, though. Maybe there’s truth mixed in that post for the other games, or maybe the UMvC3 rumor in htere was thrown in to make it sound more credible.
The other evidence you listed is valid, though.
Right, sorry, was tired when I wrote that and I actually edited that part into the wrong thing. Lower the total unscaled damage then.