Obviously, El Fuerte is a far more endearing and interesting character, both design and gameplay wise. 
As a SF noob, what does everyone hate about SFIV so much? Iāll watch tourney vids from time to time and the only thing I dont like is how slow it is (which is why I play Marvel instead).
That depends a bit on what you consider āSF2 Style gameplayā.
I would argue that the only options on that list are SF4 and SFxT.
AE is the most boring fighter Iāve ever played tbhā¦ I never liked that shit from the moment I touched it, and Focus is one of the dumbest mechanics ever. I hate that shit more than X-Factor, TACs and auto-combos combinedā¦
it was the only game that had a scene though so I decided to play it till a game I like comes outā¦
Sadly that didnt happen till KoFXIII (there were a few games in between sf4-kofXiii, but they all faded out/died too quickly). I still enter tourneys for it coz somehow I can still get top 3 eventhough I dont even have the 2012 update, but yeah once I stop being able to get dat top 3 pay-puh Iām never touching the game again lol.
SFxT has alot of the things I hate in SF4 (shortcuts, auto-correct, inv backdashes, slow walkspeed/jumps, Big ass stages) but it fixes a few things (more aggressive, having real mixups instead Vortex or button> throw/frametrap, took out Focus/Ultras) and its definitely more fun. Its still ass though, Iām just not a fan of games that let you run away or block too muchā¦ shit just makes the game a snorefest for me.
One of the very few things that I liked in SCV was how quick the guard breaks happen, dont just run away and block fool DO SOMETHING. MK has the wrong idea though coz it seems blocking is just as bad as getting hit -_-
TL;DR, Fuck you read my rant.
I mean really if you want to play other SF games in an area where they are still doing well tournament/competitive wise you can just go to Japan. SF The Movie The Game still is doing well there. I would probably still be playing mainly 3rd Strike if I was in Japan really. Canāt be bothered to play on GGPO and the console port was underwhelming.
In the US yeah everyone for the most part stays attached to the newer stuff since the country is much bigger and itās harder to get people in the same place to play similar shit.
Agreed. All of itā¦ Sighā¦ I donāt understand how people can play itā¦ All my scene does is play AE. We got some Marvel players, but not nearly as much as AE. People scream about how KOF is such a solid game and how they will drop SF4 for it, the next week, they still playing this garbage. SFxT is stupid too, but its more fundamentally sound than SF4 is.
Even an OG in my community said that SFxT was better than AE. This nigga was playing since 1995 or some dumb shit. Played all the Street Fighters and everything. āSF4 is the worst Street Fighter they madeā.
Sighā¦ Where the fuck is my CVS2 Online so I can blow niggas up with Blanka?
SFxT has almost a pure emphasis on footsies, unfortunately this is in part because other parts of the game donāt really work well.
Iām not gonna argue SFxT is the messiah or anything, that game has a list of problems a mile long. But it is a game where its very hard to gamble your way to victory. Which is something you canāt say of alot of other modern games.
Itās just like they tried to combine some elements of Super Turbo and 3S into a SF game but then water it further down to the point where thereās just not really much to do that you havenāt already done in both of those games. People complain about the vortex stuffā¦but honestly the vortex stuff is sadly the only thing about the gameplay thatās even interesting. They made throws and sweeps hard knockdown on purpose in SFIV because they knew without it, the game engine would not have a way to set up interesting pressure for a majority of the cast. That hard knockdown time is really the only time youāre going to be able to do anything scary to the opponent unless youāre full of meter and theyāre out of meter.
For the people complaining about vortexā¦all theyād have to do is take away hard knockdowns from throws and sweeps, but then that would just make it the most boring game ever instead of the most boring SF game ever.
What annoys me the most in the SF4 series is the balancing. Sure, 3f masheable DPs - which only mostly apply to beginner characters everyone and their mother uses, if youāre not a shoto enjoy your safe jumpable DP - invincible AND airborne backdashes - overkill much? - Ultras - Iām fine with comeback mechanics, just donāt fucking make them 50% moves with mostly very low start-ups -, all of that is annoying, but I can bear with it.
But Dimps manages to either make the game broken/balanced or fun/boring, never both. Vanilla was fun and broken as shit, Super was balanced and boring, AE was broken AND boring, and in 2012 weāre back to balanced and boring. And now that the gameās meta is getting stable, I simply cannot watch or play it any longer since the influx of new things is dimming down - though it took nearly 4 years, I gotta give the game that. After evolving so much, the game leaves a āthatās it? this is what we worked on for 4 years?ā feeling.
Sure, SFxT still has pretty much every problem SF4 has, except itās counter balanced with having many, many more things that are fun.
On a side note, youāre playing SFxT again, DJ?
Slow, footsies donāt really matter, low damage, Focus Attacks, reserval timing, etc. Game is ass. Donāt ever think about playing it. Its the worst game out.
I honestly feel like Marvel 3 is better, not just more fun, but better. Yes I know Marvel 3 is ass (even though lately Iāve been thinking that the game is not that bad), but thats how bad SF4 is.
On surface level, theres a few obvious flaws with the game. Input windows are a bit too large, backdashes across the cast are generally too good, hitboxes can be kind of wonky and deceptive, reversal FADC is still a pretty glaring weakpoint of the game. High level in the game though, input windows really donāt matter all that much, reversal FADC is still good but still takes a pretty good deal of strategy to implement proper reversal patterns into your game hitboxes youāre used to and OSes have been built to deal with backdashes quite well. Those arenāt even the worst part of the game really.
When you reaaaaaally start looking to where SFIV can be a great game, but just falls short, is the dominant playstyle of the top tier. In a SF type game, no matter how horrendously unbalanced things can seem, theres almost always a myriad of different strategies you can apply in the top tier of the game. ST has your degenerate character in Vega, your godlike projectile character in Gat, your keepaway character in Sim, the all around powerhouse in Ryu, and even Boxer makes a pretty good pseudo-grappler due to the way holds work. Fast forward to the SFIV top tier, and you see a ton of characters designed to take full advantage of how the wakeup game is presented. Traditional meaties really donāt work well in the game like they should in SFII and III. You need a safe crossup/unblockable to really make your opponent respect your oki for the most part. Normally, the characters that are very good at this would be kept in check by the grapplers/e-honda/balrog and other strong zoners who get to apply their own game and just not worry due to the fact that their midrange game far surpassed these characters that put you into some hairy situation on a knockdown.
Here is where a really big problem of the game comes in. Sure a character like Balrog can bully cammy with superior normals all day until she just gets attritioned out of the match for all intents and purposes. The Rog player in this scenario has to be super on point for 70-99 in game seconds, and not faulter a single poke to do this. Cammy, on the other hand, can actually make you guess wrong on anti air once with EX divekick which stuffs most every grounded anti air at the right range absolutely free, and if you block it, shes at + a million frames and has some of the best blockstrings in the game. This is where a lot of the braindead argument starts to come into play for this game. Who cares that I have extremely good footsies and zoning with Rog if cammy can just pretend shes going to play footsies and jumps all day fishing for a bad anti air to win the entire game on momentum.
Street Fighter should be a game of concise pokes and perfect spacing to win games. In Street Fighter 4 it just doesnāt play out like that sometimes.
Well, some more individual thoughts:
-The donāt need to take away Hard KDās from sweeps. They need to take it away from throws and half the specials. A hard knockdown used to be something you had to work for or choose. In SF4 almost every hit leads to the guessing game.
-Most throws donāt allow hugely ridiculous setups, so thatās being overstated.
-SF4 did try to combine elements from all teh SF games. SF3 may have been broken, and not a very good game from a competitive standpoint, but it was always fun and interesting.
-Invulnerable backdashes were included as a way to make sure that characters with bad reversals/armor breakers had a way out of lvl3 focus. Unfortunately, they are used for much more than that.
That plus the wake up games are more reminiscent of the Alpha or SF3 series where thereās no way to be forced into a hard knockdown situation unless you get supered or itās a very specific move that carries that property. Meaning more time to play footsies. I also really like not having to deal with the focus mechanic and then fighting characters that donāt give a shit about it like Balrog.
Oh and itās not really so much āplaying it againā as it is really just starting to play it. Iāve only played the game once in my life so itās really almost like the first time. Thereās shit I still donāt like about it but as far as playing a SF style game with some sandbox to it that isnāt ages oldā¦it does the job I guess. Iām sure thereās a lot of unexplored stuff in that game so itāll be interesting to find it.
As far as the new games are concerned Iām already maining 2 animu style games so I really donāt need Persona or anything else at this point. Might as well just mess around with SFxT for some old 6 normal ground style foosies.
Another thing is that most problems in SF4 are deeply rooted on the gameās mechanics. Like Ve said, invincible backdashes were put to take care of Focus attacks on your wake up, but that fucked everything else. Same goes for other things.
Funny thing is, as much as people like to shit on SFxT, itās problems are the exact opposite, making the game much easier to fix. None of them are tied to mechanics as much as theyāre tied to numbers. A frame data overhaul should be enough to fix most of the gameās flaws while keeping the fun.
Hooray for bad design, I guess? SFxT being all over the place can actually help the game in the long run. The irony.
As someone whoās like, 17 years old, and played SF2, SFA3 and SF3ā¦ SF4AEā¦ sucks >__>
I feel this Street Fighter game feels sort of, away from the previous games. I guess the mechanics such as Focus and Ultras kinda stack with it, but itās not even that what makes this game kinda distant from the previous games, I donāt know how to explain in words atm but Iāve always thought like that. It seems really dry and doesnāt have a whole lot of variety in it when playing a match either, it feels like youāve seen this stuff before but canāt make it like the other games because it seems sooooo butchered.
Also the fact I have to use FADCs to do long combos that scale so heavily to the point of Ultras doing tiny damage is really underwhelming to me.
As for SFxTā¦ as much as I donāt like it I would rather play that than SF4ā¦ I feel like this game is bad because, while itās a tag game and stuff, most things like damage and other stuff feels like SF4.
Oh god the damage, it feels like they just didnāt even change it from SF4 to this one. If it wasnāt for heavy scaling on combos I think this game wouldnāt have much of a problem with Time outs.
One thing I always find funny with SFxT is the scaling system they chose to use. It works fine for SFIV because your average combo is not long in the least, and the game isnāt very combo centric in the first place. Then you go to a game like SFxT, which allows extreme creativity with combos, some of which lasting forever, but why? Why the hell would you implement a system to make all that useless? Does anyone want to be hit by a combo for 5 seconds because of how incredibly floaty things are, only to take as much damage that could have been done in 1 and a half seconds? Why is it like that?
6 Buttons! 12+ Normals! More than 2 Specials!
OMFG THAT IS WAY TO MANY MOVES I"LL NEVER BE ABLE TO HANDLE THAT!
FUCK, YOU HAVE TO HIT MORE THAN ONE BUTTON TO COMBO.
OMFG!!!
Yeah at least in Marvel it works like the older games where youāre dead or nearly dead after not being able to play for that long of a time.
Iāll just have to hope Nina can do enough damage after Chun Li so that I can kill people quickly without worrying about the time out crap. I heard Ninaās damage is pretty good so I may be good on that there.
Raven seems like the go to character if you hate time outs. You should never get timed out with Raven on your team.
Yeah thatās why I like Skullgirls a lot because itās an animu game where I get the normal set of a SF game (like the older VS. games). I also like how thereās no rapid fire jabs. You pretty much have to one, two stop with your jabs and shorts and most jabs specifically donāt have much range.
Thats a big reason why I dont like it. I love combos and making combos with Juri (Day 1/2) was hella funā¦they just did horrible damage.
And Iāve played most SFers (SFII:CE, ST, SFA1-3, SF3S, SFIV, SSFIV), I just didnt try to learn them until SFIV came out. Like most people, Marvel was one of my first FGs I played competitively (if you dont count anime games) but I can still honestly say 3S was probably the most fun one to me with A3 after it just because of Karin. I still cant play either that well but it still feels fun when I play them.
Sfivās (and x tekkenās) scaling makes me feel like Iām using Danteās retarded, limbless son