Random is just an excuse to use against someone whose habits you haven’t picked up.
That is all.
Pretty much this. If you build a cheap enough team you just make it so the other guy doesn’t get a chance to play.
I reallyhate when people bring up F.Champ because it sparks a larger debate on randomness via TAC’s,
Well TAC’s are just another effect of getting hit. If you hit them first, bad things won’t happen to you (unless you drop the combo or don’t put them in a tight reset after). Which is why mastering the start of round neutral is essential because the game heavily punishes you for getting clean hit. If it was Zero you would just die instead of getting a funny chance to get out of dying.
That’s one of the big things people have problems with regarding this game. They don’t like taking the ultimate punishment just for not landing a hit first and well…that’s the way old games were.
Why did you get hit? You know you’re not supposed to get hit.
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At least in MVC3 you get a chance to play a game to escape. In MVC1 you don’t get any Killer Instinct style RPS break or nothing. You take it until you die.
In relation to this, I love how people forget that this is exactly what most of us were asking for 2 years ago when the game was still in development.
Yeah I wanna see if some of the pre release MVC3 posts are still around. People asked for a really cheap game like the other Marvel games with no bursts and no animu air dashes for all the characters and all of that funny animu game stuff. Pretty much got what they asked for minus XF being a cracked out K groove instead of just a type of roman cancel like people originally thought it would be.
It’s kinda funny that the only thing people really complained about during beta testing was the damage was too low and is part of the reason why combos kill so fast now. Didn’t they try turning on XF and seeing how fast that killed people off if everybody whines about it so much? I dunno…I’m too old school to dwell on stuff like that for too long.I love learning to get around the oppressive so yeah.
It’s just interesting to wonder why it took the game just about releasing before people figured XF was this behemoth of a mechanic and that TAC’s would allow any joe shmoe to do a lot of damage for putting you in a Killer Instinct mix up.
I think the SFIV style sheer blind hype of character’s releasing and all of that shit just got people hooked without thinking about those things. Nobody cared that you could call an beam assist just frames before doing long ranged or tracking teleport and that many of the cast had these types of ports or pass through moves.
The funny thing is I ended up really getting into the game really late into the release. I heard it was coming out but I didn’t make a big deal about it since I wasn’t a huge fan of MVC2. It was only when I heard Viper and X-23 were going to be in the game did I really decide to get hype for it. From there I realized that Marvel was the same game that a lot of people touted got people to learn to play any fighting game well because of the amount of variables you had to deal with so fast.
You couldn’t make excuses about the tiers or the character’s overly powerful tools. You just had to be a superman and get through it all. I figured the idea of playing 3 characters at once and having extended footsies with assists would be really fun so I got into it and liked it a lot more than I thought I would. After being bored with how dry SFIV was it was a really unique change of pace. It’s just the game gives you everything a bit too easily but like any game, the players can always correct that.
Take random ass TAC’s out of the game and I’ll be happy.
It’s like playing rock, paper, scissors. Shit’s ridiculous.
Also, take out Vergil.
There is fanatiq’s old thread, which I recall was not only front paged but was sent all the way to Niitsuma by the folks at CapUSA. Interesting enough, fanatiq is one of the people who seems to genuinely enjoy the game.
That’s the thing. I don’t really think of the TAC’s as like “guessing”. Like I’m not guessing or caring to guess. I don’t put any emotions into it. I just OS on the stick or just pick a direction because well…in the old games you couldn’t even do that you just took the infinite. I just assume I’m in an old game infinite with a possible chance to escape the infinite. Of course there’s the j.S reset to screw up your escape so sometimes it’s better to just block. People put too much thought into what happens after they get hit in this game. Once you get hit in this game you’re in a shitload of shit and just have to keep your composure incase the worst happens where you lose a character or they get a bunch of meter etc.
Just because previous iterations of this game were worse, it in no way justifies TAC’s in this game.
The whole losing meter/gaining meter aspect is completely ridiculous as well.
Older games having dumb mechanics does not justify newer games having dumb mechanics.
Have fun guessing what direction I’m going to TAC you while I TAC glitch you.
In this respect I don’t call TAC’s random since I’ll guarantee a TAC off with the TAC glitch. Good luck bub.
Obviously but just like everyone who didn’t think SFIV didn’t have the perfect set of game mechanics, you have to play with what you are given. SFIV taught me you just kinda have to accept the game for what it is rather than dwell over how it won’t change to what you prefer it to.
Losing one of your 3 characters for getting hit in a game with no rounds isn’t quite the most appetizing thing competitively. Its just despite that the game is still very unique and has a lot of variables you must think about that aren’t in other games.
It would be nice if TAC’s worked more as just a character switch than a TOD reset tool and other things…but that’s not gonna change. Its not excuseable but its not changing so the cards are just dealt the way they are dealt there. At times the game is like playing something made in 1997 but I think that’s part of what makes it unique in a day where most games are striving for the fairest game possible.
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I pretty much had to excommunicate myself from the scene due to a lot of player’s interpretation of this game. Not because I put myself on some kind of pedestal, but because otherwise talented players surrounding me were being held back from approaching competitive goals like adults (consistent playing at certain dates/times, goal setting etc.) because they were hell-bent on dismissing the game as random due to their frustrations with it. Their egos would not allow them to look at the game objectively. As a result, that effected me, because I could get no consistent practice at the game at all. It made me realize the scene still has a lot of growing (up) to do, and I’m just not willing to interact with development-arrested man-children anymore (okay, there’s a little pedestal perching - but I think for good reason). I wanted to punch some guy in the mouth a few weeks ago at an Option Select gathering because he was irritating me to no end about how “random” the game supposedly is with the most childish arguments:
“The game drops your combos randomly.”
“What combos? Notate the combo that ‘drops randomly’ for you so I can test it.”
“Every combo.”
“Top players even say the game is random!”
“So argument from authority, then? The game is random because players you respect say so? How is that logical? I’m bad at this game, and I display perfectly valid reasons why the game isn’t random. You sure they’re not expressing frustration? The base of winners is fairly consistent for such a ‘random’ game.”
“Exactly! You’re bad so you can’t make the argument the game isn’t random! You’re just using big words to confuse the argument and make it *sound *like you’re saying something! The game’s random!” *
“The game is composed of ones and zeroes! It plays by specific, quantifiable rules! How does something coded to work in such a particular way become random? Unless you’re talking about unquantified glitches?”
“The ones and zeroes were made by the programmers to be random!”
Marvel being “random” is the new “Smash Bros. isn’t a fighting game” and “Random Ultras makes the game scrubby” phase, that will hopefully be outgrown. Too bad I won’t be around to see it. I’m not sure if this is a product of the fighting game player base or people that play games in general, but i’m just fed up with it.
As I’ve parroted forever: Marvel is not “random”. You can only make the argument that the game is too large and complex for its own good, making it competitively unwieldy. But tournament results will refute that argument, cleanly. The players that treat the game like scientists are starting to win (Chris G, Yipes, Champ).
[Taken straight from the SRK forum handbook: “How to Debate with Synikal”]
Or better yet, you just play the games you prefer. I know, such a tough concept for most.
The game isn’t random. It’s high damage and tournaments are short sets. Gimmicks prevail in short sets as long as you’re getting your damage in so sometimes a one trick pony can beat the more seasoned players. I’ve played people casually and lost the first 3 and then went on to win the next 20. Had it been tournament, I would have been eliminated. This is honestly why it’s popular. Somebody may unleash something nobody has ever seen before and the style of the game can lead to upsets, and who doesn’t love upsets? People like to see upsets in any competitive game or sport.
With that said, the term ‘random’ comes from the fact that we used tournament as a standard for judging players. In reality, the better player will always win more if the two players PLAY more, because there are no ACTUAL random factors involved (aside from Shuma’s hyper mystic smash, Hsien Ko items, PW items)
My take.
Yeah I’ve heard Yipes has never lost a long set to anybody ever. Yet every game is random if you count tournaments because every Evo I’ve seen players that should have been in top 32 of SFIV or 3rd Strike or other games randomly not make it. Tournaments are mainly about your ability to clutch against a variety of opponents…not much else.
Yes, it even happens in other games. Just less to a degree that it causes a controversy or get’s people salty. Marvel induces rage like no other.
Yeah I personally don’t get mad at the game much anymore because I’m working to understand it rather than just blow shit off as random. I’m at the point now where I don’t really feel like anything “randomly” happens to me in this game. I always used to look back on match vids in games like 3S or Super Turbo that I played in tournament to see what I did wrong or could have done differently. It usually comes down to like 2 or 3 things I could have done differently in each match where I lost.
I feel like Viper is one of those characters where you can pretty clearly see why you got hit or lost generally because she basically does have an option against everything in the game. She can’t really air footsie as well as the other characters but there’s always something I could have done on the ground like focus an air normal they did or throw a laser before they came in. It’ll definitely be fun to keep learning it all and I hope I learn a lot from SB.