UMVC3 and the "random" controversy

Firstly I made this thread because for whatever reason this seems to be an ongoing topic in the stream thread that won’t ever end. Like to the point where it’s getting in the way of actual discussions about the stream matches. Keep it here and I won’t hesitate to report people who keep spamming this stuff in the stream thread.

Now…we all know wuz up. UMVC3 is one of those “sandbox”/“kusoge” games where fundamentals are just one aspect of what you need to win instead of most of what you need to win like other fighters. You have to learn a lot of abstracts and the game doesn’t really have a ton of restrictions. There’s also no rounds (it’s basically whoever wins first round wins the match) and you have to pick 3 people that pretty much all effectively have low health the way the game is going. Plus 1 frame ground and air throws, powerful neutral controlling assists, XF and RPS resets that effectively lead to TOD’s.

If you’ve noticed…most of the tutorials for this game revolve around combos. Not much really anyone cares to explain what you’re supposed to do in the neutral in this game because you get so much for just learn a combo. Learn a combo and it kills off a character. It gets everyone into a high where they just learn combos and gogogogo until they land one. Well the problem is the other person you’re fighting probably knows combos and it’s very possible you’ll get hit by them first instead and then your team starts to crumble instead.

Yeah you have XF to help but you can’t rely on XF3 consistently anymore and XF2+assist is the closest thing now to something consistent yet you might not always kill 3 people before it runs out and then you gotta work again against their XF ihey have it. Which if the game starts to get as guard break heavy as people theorize you may not get a lot of times to do that either.

All together it means a lot of the most important decision making and footsies happens at the start. From there the game is very momentum based and part of why people play longer 3/5 sets for it now. In a game where there’s so many variables + comeback mechanic you don’t ideally want to get effectively a one match scenario in a typical fighting game to figure someone out in this game. Only like the top top level players can do that with consistency and they usually play a team that basically stops shit from starting to begin with.

That’s just my piece for now…but I think a big thing that needs to happen is more discussions about the neutral of the game rather than 80,000 combo videos from people who basically are just looking to land combos in matches and not really know how they’re gonna do it. It’s not so much that the game can’t be controlled it’s just more so there isn’t enough discussion on what teams you can utilize to control the game and what you should be doing in small specific situations where people usually just give up or think is “random time” shit.


All matches should be FT1 so we can really determine who’s the best.

That sounds a lot like KoF13. the problem is, how to convince people who are just starting or that have never played any other game before, that doing combos is not everything and that the neutral game is actually a necessity to learn.

Didn’t you make a neutral game thread already? Can’t find it under all the ‘pls help me threads’

This thread is random.

I did. This is just a thread where everyone can discuss if they do or don’t think the game is random so people can actually talk about the stream.

Its not another neutral thread. Its mainly to discuss whether or not people feel the game can be controlled to begin with. This way there isn’t a totally unrelated topic going on on top of the stream talk.

No reason for there to be shit that would fit in general discussion mostly going on in the stream thread.

All I know is no more of that shit is going to happen in a stickied thread anymore. Fuck dat.
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this thread is meta as fuck

lmao misquote second only to mine :rofl:

Yeah tapatalk is random.

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the only part about the game that is random is the start, but even then you can feel what ur opponent gona do if u know him.

fchamp and chris g win everything, only people who bitch up about random are fuckin people who cant beat them - hey heres a thought maybe ur not good enough COUGH house of crack COUGH

yeah ok f champ lost at aftershock so fucking what no money on the line, and its 1 time everyone has a shit day

chris g has lost how many big 2’s what 2? 3? lol…

get that shit out of here pick a solid team, with solid tactics. no more fucking ryu or haggar on point and ur losing to morridoom games not random, your TEAM is not top tier. thats like picking a mid tier in sf4, losing to a bad matchup and syaing welp random. no, fuck off get better, pick a better team, think about why you lost before you bitch about random

I think “frantic” is a much more suitable term to describe this game than random. Except for 50/50 mixups, those are fucking random.

Oh shit… another OTT thread…?

The funny thing about Morri Missiles is that I would argue Haggar is one of the better characters in the game at dealing with it.

Ryu can’t really stay in the air that long but Haggar has a really floaty super jump where he can super jump up then do air command grab times 3 to suck up a good bit of time from the super. If you get hit by missiles while in the air…great. Now you can air command grab 3 more times because your air actions got reset. They’ll have to have Strider assist to keep Haggar from playing runaway against it.

Then of course you have characters with a bunch of air shit like C.Viper or Magneto that can stay up there all day. Especially if they get hit with the missiles while up there.

The main problem is everyone is trying to rushdown or zone it when the best thing to do is to runaway with characters that have strong air actions so you aren’t in a position to inevitably build her meter. Everyone is too used to just playing Marvel 3 at the lower half of the screen because that’s what Vanilla conditioned people to do. Its not just Modok that can lame it out.

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Morridoom was a great factor to be introduced to the metagame of marvel 3. Its basically exposed people who have crap mobility or who dont have a full understanding of all of their characters moves. All the people that just like to hit their best combos off of clean hits and just want to rush will come up against a wall because theyre not used to having to work to get anything started. You can get around it but you have to play careful and have to accept you’re gonna take a certain amount of chip. There isnt anything wrong with that though. Chip has almost become a forgotten part of fighting games and I think alot of players feel entitled that they should not be taking projectile chip. The amount of times Ive heard sighs when someone gets hit by a soulfist barrage, yet people barely bat an eyelid to something like teleport + vajra. Playing a patient game of moving forward and blocking is fighting games 101 and should be promoted by the games design. Instead characters are given boatloads of options to get around fireballs, and the old universal option of patience is forgotten.

Now Im not saying Morridoom isnt some broken shit, but what it represents is some of the fundamental concepts of fighting games (a trap), albeit on an extreme level. The AV stuff isnt even the most broken thing about morridoom. Her rushdown is way more scary imo, just a lot harder to do because shes so unique in her execution and requires alot of knowledge and intricate hitstun awareness to really get wins.

You can see JRosa for evidence of how a basic morridoom really wont get you that far. Whereas alot of people using basic spencers, weskers, dooms, vergils and magnetos have gotten pretty far.

Calling the game random is just an excuse for losing.

I wouldn’t call the game “random” I would call the players random.

The example I always use:

Someone uses a fullscreen super right at the beginning of the match (chaotic flame for example) and I get caught by it while backdashing, teleporting, calling an assist, setting up an EoA, etc.

It’s an “unexpected event” and I wouldn’t expect any sane player to actually do it, thus I get caught by it.

This is obviously 1 mere example, and there are many more that I could name.

However, it’s not the game that is random; it’s the players. This game has the capacity to support unexpected/random events, but the players are the ones who actually initiate it.

Every person is different, every person does different things/thinks differently; thus unexpected events will occur and you will at times get caught by them.

Plain and simple.

I feel like this game isn’t that random it’s still very new and there are variables we do not know yet. It is true most players just practice combos and that’s all they show people. I think its because ( and I’ve done this ) you don’t want to spoon feed the kids these days. I feel like they should grind it out and understand their character. I think I’ve spent an amazingly excessive amount of time in training room with zero working on abare ( random confirms ), mix ups, spacing/baiting/punishing, what’s my safest and most effective approach. I’ve even seen how long it takes to morridoom chip my characters to death. Its all a learning process. I stress neutral game so much because I was taught that no fundamentals and solid ground game under your belt is not a way towards success. Understanding what situations your character excels at and how to get to those situations is what takes out the random and reading your opponents intentions also.

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Except, that’s not even a random event either. The person does a Chaotic Flame on the guess that someone would call an assist and open up with a move, which isn’t a terrible guess. It would only seem random if you didn’t consider the possibility of the event happening.

its only random if it hits u

Being random is how I win. Since day 1. I call it unpredictable.