Akuma is a great character but definitely not the best zoning type. In theory he can zone, yes, but Guile, Ryu, and Sagat are more meant for that. Zoning itself is just not as effective in this game - and with Akuma’s low health you’d have to be REALLY good in order to compensate for that. Can you imagine laming it out with fireballs for what seems like an eternity, and then getting your ass kicked after messing up just once?
I think Akuma needs the vortex, he’s too fragile to stay in a round for an extended period of time. He has the tools to do it but I wonder if its worth the risk?
That’s pretty much what happened with Vanilla/Super Seth, closing in at times was ass, but he was made of butter (now it’s way better, only he won’t bother with that kind of playstyle anymore) and in the very end it wasn’t much of a problem.
It’s not that different with Akuma: you got good zoning, but you just don’t win by that alone when your health is low and have a harder time to comeback with the lack of a (decently) comboable ultra.
In b4 Daigo trashes the whole world with fireballs and DPs alone, registers here on SRK and tells me I suck cocks in hell.
What’s interesting about this is I’ve spoken with a few people that have, on this news alone, started poking at other characters. Not necessarily Gouki/Akuma, but the news itself just jarred them out of complacency and trying new characters themselves. Nobody famous, nobody anyone would have heard of, just a few random friends and acquaintances I’ve talked to.
The mere act of Daigo considering changing characters (and showing off less than ‘full integration’ with Akuma so far, as you stated), without it being an ‘obvious choice’ like AE (normal version, not 2012) Yun, had that kind of effect. I’m not sure if it’s a good or bad thing, but it is at least interesting.
All this talk about Daigo is well and good. He’s an amazing SF player, but he smells like crap! I played him in San Francisco a couple years back in some casual matches and the smell was so bad I had to leave after two matches… :looney: He probably smells so bad because he spends so much time playing SF and not bathing.
It’s understandable why people say “if Daigo just wants to zone, he should pick Ryu or Guile etc,” but I have a major issue with that line of thinking. It seems to me as though the general logic behind those statements is “Ryu has a better cr. mk and a better SRK, so he should just go with him.” What this neglects is that Daigo wants to do more than just zone and that Akuma’s zoning game is strong not just because of his normals and fireball and DP but because of his entire spectrum of abilities. You have to look at it in the context of the whole character…
Example: if you’re playing Ryu and he neutral jumps, what do you have to worry about? A neutral jump normal? Empty neutral jump into throw or SRK (lol)? EX Tatsu to make something whiff? That’s about it. Akuma, of course, has an air fireball, which allows him to (oftentimes) very safely apply pressure from a neutral jump AND it alters his landing timing… this one aspect of his game - the “neutral jump air fireball” game, gives Akuma a HUGE zoning tool that Ryu lacks. There are countless examples like this.
And, of course, Daigo can do lots of other stuff with Akuma that he can’t with Ryu (demon flip stuff, utilizing faster walk speed, demon, teleporting etc.). It’s not like he’s going to pick Akuma and do nothing but ground firebals, cr. mk, and SRK.
As I’ve said before, I think Daigo could have a ton of success with Akuma, but that’s not really the point… the point is that zoning is more complicated than using those two or three moves of Ryu’s that are constantly cited as making him a god of zoning.
Ryu has a better SRK? Wtf lol, when it comes to stun maybe. I don’t remember people saying Ryu’s zoning is better because of those two things alone. His arsenal of normals basically cover every jump approach, he can DP you for 40 % health, his ground game is better (fireballs, normals etc).
Btw, in your post you’re forgetting all that’s not good with Akuma. Someone reading your post would easily think Ryu’s trash and Akuma cannot be beaten because he got everything - when that alone is an even matchup.
Ryu better SRK = it not trading very often, having way better hitboxes, etc. I thought that was the consensus, and in my experience, it’s true.
You’re totally right about simply being able to describe each character in a subjective, biased way, but that’s part of why so many of these tier discussions become so silly haha. I do think that Akuma is better than Ryu, and the air fireball stuff I described is one of the reasons why, but if someone else wants to talk about how unstoppable and versatile the solar plexus punch is, I will read it with great interest!
Well Ryu doesn’t really mind trading that lol… Still I was speaking strictly about AAing there.
Depends on what you’ll be doing with your DP basically, if we consider followups and damage, range, stun, recovery etc, I guess Ryu ends easily on top.
I haven’t played much as Ryu, but when I’ve had, I’ve found it a lot easier to AA with his DP due to the hit/hurtboxes. To be honest, though I’ve only recently been actively working Akuma’s MP SRK into my game, as I mostly tried HP at first and later LP and found both to be pretty bad. Maybe a year ago I realized how godly his EX SRK is, and I also think I needed to work on my technique, primarily by launching the DP from crouching position, which, being used to the unstoppable, divine DPs of the SF2 days (or at least I recall them NEVER trading - basically, if you pulled off the DP motion before you got hit, you won), never really occurred to me as something I should have to do… but that has all happened since I messed around with Ryu, so if anything it should prove how much easier Ryu’s SRK is to land as an antiair.
Semi-relevant tangent - I’ve found almost every character’s SRK to be easier to antiair with than Akuma’s… Ryu’s, Cammy’s, Fei Long’s, Seth’s… if I were to rate Akuma’s LP and HP SRKs as antiairs compared to any TIger Uppercut, I’d give Akuma’s a 3/10 and Tiger Uppercut a 9/10.
The issue with Akuma’s MP & HP DPs is that they don’t have much horizontal range AND more importantly the first hit doesn’t knockdown, both of those together really makes Akuma’s DP not so good for anti airing compared to the rest.
I feel like because of those 2 weaknesses we don’t see Tokido risk AA’ing too much, at certain ranges and depending on the opponent’s hurtbox in the air, Akuma’s DP could easily whiff or the first hit would only connect which means you’ll be eating a punish that’ll cost you 30%-40% life at the very least least. Only good thing going on for it is the invincibility frames (5 for mp and 6 for hp).
Exactly. It’s all about the horizontal hitboxes, how likely they are to trade or whiff after the first hit, etc.
I do use EX to antiair sometimes. I feel like it has way more horizonal range than HP, and it never trades or whiffs after one hit. It’s great to know that if they are jumping anywhere near you, you are guaranteed at least some damage, pushback, and quite possibly a psychological advantage, having interrupted their offense. And it’s really satisfying to get three hits in the perfect situation.
And Akuma has cr. fierce, far fierce, Demon…
Anyway, a bit off topic but yeah, Akuma certainly has potential as a zoner.